A thread to explain Roxas' and Sora's connection for all those who don't understand

[KCDjedi]

Roxas is a Nobody, and Hearts have next to nothing to do with the creation of Nobodies, let’s make sure we all get those two points….

Ok? Ok, onto the topic at hand.

To put it very simply, Roxas seems to have a heart, or at least the emotions and feelings thought to exist only with a heart, because Sora still existed at that point.

There is no second heart involved, nor is Sora’s heart split in any way.

Because Sora still exists as Sora, and not a Heartless (I’ll get to that in a bit) Roxas is able to feel the emotions of his original self, even though he is his own being. He is still Sora’s Body and Soul, aka, his Nobody, it’s just the Heart happens to still be a factor in that it is not residing in Kingdom Hearts, nor is it a Heartless, but it exists as Sora.
I have no doubt that had Sora stayed a Heartless, or were his Heartless defeated and Heart returned to Kingdom Hearts or wherever it is they go, Roxas would not be able to wield the Keyblade.
Every Nobody has a connection to their original selves, it’s just that Sora is the only “original” to exist at the same time as his Nobody, Roxas. Xehanort was still a Heartless, despite the fact that he still held control over his mind and will.

And the connection goes both ways.

Look at when Sora visited Twilight Town in Chain of Memories…. He felt as if he’d been there before, despite the fact that he, Sora, had never been there. This was because, like with Roxas’ “feelings”, Sora was connected to Roxas, who had already been to Twilight Town.

See what I’m getting at?

There are three parts of a person: the Body, Soul, and Heart.
B-S-H

Normally when someone turns into a Heartless and produces a Nobody, they lose control of the Heart, and the connection between the Body and Soul, and the Heart is severed.
B-S x H

Sora still exists as Sora, be it a strange being or not, he still exists and can control his heart. This means that Sora and his Heart are still connected to Roxas and Namine, his Body and Soul (not respectively, but collectively).

B-S-H

Think of it this way, a:
Normal Person (NP) has all three parts connected with a cable like computer devices.
Nobody (N) still has the Body and Soul connected by a cable, but the Heart is disconnected.
And Sora/Roxas/Namine (SRN) has the Body and Soul (Roxas and Namine) connected by cable, and the Heart (Sora) connected wirelessly.
NP: B-S-H
N: B-S x H
SRN: B-S ~~wi-fi~~ H



Ok, now let’s get to the tricky part.
Sora was turned into a Heartless, but is one no longer.
Sora, having a conscious mind and will, unlike all other Heartless, was aware that he needed to get to Kairi as soon as possible. Be it a hunch, gut feeling, or perhaps he was spurred on by the notorious “Voice”, he knew he had to get to her.
Once there, we all know his extremely deep connection with Kairi restored him to his original form, but what exactly is this “Sora” from this point?

Sora, it seems to me, is not, in fact, a whole being, he’s a sort of “reverse-Heartless”, as I like to call it. He’s a Heart that is shelled, or consumed, rather, by the Light of Kairi’s (being a PoH) heart, instead of a Heart consumed by Darkness, as is a Heartless.


Did I forget anything?


Ok, in summary, we have these things (for those who don’t like to read).
1). Sora still exists as Sora, causing a very unique and bizarre relationship between himself, and Roxas.

2). Sora isn’t a Heartless, but rather a reverse of one, or perhaps a restored, but incomplete Sora.

3) Roxas has “feelings”, and can use the Keyblade because of point #1.

4). Ansem, Seeker of Darkness, was not connected to Xemnas because A,SoD was a Heartless of pure darkness, and as such had his Heart “disconnected”. He was rather like Sora, except for the fact that,where Sora is a Heart encased in Light, Xehanort's Heartless is a Heart incased in pure Darkness.

5). Sora wasn't returned to his full status until after merging with Roxas, whenever this occurred (most likely at the Mansion when Sora awoke from his slumber), and Namine with Kairi at the end of KHII. Namine fusing with Kairi returned that little bit of Sora in Namine to him, thus completing him.

6). Namine has such a close connection to Sora because she spawned from his Body and Soul, making her at the very least the last segment of Sora that needed to be returned to him to make him whole.

This didn't occur in CoM because she's essentially Kairi's Nobody, with a small part of Sora's body and Soul attached. This means that she had to be returned to Kairi to allow the original Sora to be "unlocked", as it were. She’s the anchor that keeps the U.S.S Sora from sailing off into the sunset.
Did that makes sense?




Took me so long to write that that my mind changed even as I typed it down. Evolving theories are unique, I'll give them that.


*Edit*
Just another thought.
Sora and Roxas may have fused in the Mansion, but Namine and Kairi didn't fuse until much later on in the game. This may be what kept Sora from returning to his complete self right away.




*second edit was junk, bleh*

*Third edit, added a changed a bit due to new (to me) information presented to me.*

[madammina]

Okay. Are you saying he is a heartless after Roxas rejoins with Sora, and the Antiform is just temporary released energy?

But good ideas! (not putting down)

[Artistry of Schedius]

....thats a long theory...it makes sense though.well a bit.If Sora turns into a heartless for a second time he wouldnt produce another nobody coz he already has a nobody.is that what you're telling?

[KCDjedi]

Originally Posted by madammina

Okay. Are you saying he is a heartless after Roxas rejoins with Sora, and the Antiform is just temporary released energy?

But good ideas! (not putting down)

I was under the impression that he didn't re-form with Sora 'till that scene at the end of KHII where we see Namine and Roxas pop out of Kairi and Sora, smile, then pop back in, Sora jumps a bit, and Riku says "Don't worry, you're still you".

Originally Posted by ( X_Roxas_XD

....thats a long theory...it makes sense though.well a bit.If Sora turns into a heartless for a second time he wouldnt produce another nobody coz he already has a nobody.is that what you're telling?

He doesn't produce a second Nobody since he didn't have a body and soul to produce one.
Because Namine was created by Sora and Kairi together, Namine needed to be re-connected to Sora as well as Roxas.

I just thought of the Namine part after you said that, to be honest.

[Artistry of Schedius]

Originally Posted by KCDjedi

I was under the impression that he didn't re-form with Sora 'till that scene at the end of KHII where we see Namine and Roxas pop out of Kairi and Sora, smile, then pop back in, Sora jumps a bit, and Riku says "Don't worry, you're still you".

ok i didnt catch that.can you please make it a bit more clearer?(im asking this in a nice way)

[revarai20]

Originally Posted by KCDjedi

Roxas is a Nobody, and Hearts have nothing to do with the creation of Nobodies, let’s make sure we all get those two points….

Ok? Ok, onto the topic at hand.

To put it very simply, Roxas seems to have a heart, or at least the emotions and feelings thought to exist only with a heart, because Sora stil exists.

There is no second heart involved, nor is Sora’s heart split in any way.

Because Sora still exists as Sora, and not a Heartless (I’ll get to that in a bit) Roxas is able to feel the emotions of his original self, even though he is his own being. He is still Sora’s Body and Soul, aka, his Nobody, it’s just the Heart happens to still be a factor in that it is not residing in Kingdom Hearts, nor is it a Heartless, but it exists as Sora.
I have no doubt that had Sora stayed a Heartless, or were his Heartless defeated and Heart returned to Kingdom Hearts or wherever it is they go, Roxas would not be able to wield the Keyblade.
Every Nobody has a connection to their original selves, it’s just that Sora is the only “original” to exist at the same time as his Nobody, Roxas.

And the connection goes both ways.

Look at when Sora visited Twilight Town in Chain of Memories…. He felt as if he’d been there before, despite the fact that he, Sora, had never been there. This was because, like with Roxas’ “feelings”, Sora was connected to Roxas, who had already been to Twilight Town.

See what I’m getting at?

There are three parts of a person: the Body, Soul, and Heart.
B-S-H

Normally when someone turns into a Heartless and produces a Nobody, they lose control of the Heart, and the connection between the Body and Soul, and the Heart is severed.
B-S x H

Sora still exists as Sora, be it a strange being or not, he still exists and can control his heart. This means that Sora and his Heart are still connected to Roxas, his Body and Soul.

B-S-H

Think of it this way, A:
Normal Person (NP) has all three parts connected with a cable like computer devices.
Nobody (N) still has the Body and Soul Connected by a cable, but the Heart is disconnected.
And Sora/Roxas (SR) has the Body and Soul (Roxas) connected by cable, and the Heart (Sora) connected wirelessly.
NP: B-S-H
N: B-S x H
SR: B-S ~~wi-fi~~ H



Ok, now let’s get to the tricky part.
Sora was turned into a Heartless, but is one no longer.
Sora, having a conscious mind and will, unlike all other Heartless, was aware that he needed to get to Kairi as soon as possible. Be it a hunch, gut feeling, or perhaps he was spurred on by the notorious “Voice”, he knew he had to get to her.
Once there, we all know his extremely deep connection with Kairi restored him to his original form, but what exactly is this “Sora” from this point to the end of KHII?

Sora, it seems, is not, in fact, a whole being, he’s a sort of “reverse-Heartless”, as I like to call it. He’s a Heart that is shelled, or consumed, rather, by the lightness in Kairi’s (being a PoH) heart.
This can be explained by Sora’s Anti-Form from KHII. His Anti-Form is the culmination and release of all the darkness that gathers in his heart from time to time, turning him into a supremely powerfull Heartless. But since he has neither a body nor soul, he does not produce a Nobody when this occurs and retains his sense of self like he did in KH1.

Did I forget anything?


Ok, in summary, we have these things (for those who don’t like to read).
1). Sora still exists as Sora, causing a very unique and bizarre relationship between himself, and Roxas.

2). Sora isn’t a Heartless, but rather a reverse of one.

3) Roxas has “feelings”, and can use the Keyblade because of point #1.

4). Ansem, Seeker of Darkness, was not connected to Xemnas because A,SoD was a Heartless, and as such had his Heart “disconnected”.



Did that makes sense?





Took me so long to write that that my mind changed even as I typed it down. Evolving theories are unique, I'll give them that.

Wow you put alot into this and I must say, I do agree because I can see everything and how's it connected. Interesting.

[KCDjedi]

Originally Posted by ( X_Roxas_XD

ok i didnt catch that.can you please make it a bit more clearer?(im asking this in a nice way)

Ok, I added this.

5). Sora wasn't returned to his full status until after merging with Roxas and Namine at the end of KHII: "Don't worry, you're still you."

Does that help?

[Artistry of Schedius]

oh right so thats what you mean.yep got that.so Sora's whole?i mean by without Roxas, Sora would be incomplete?i have to go then i'll read your reply tomorow.

[KCDjedi]

Originally Posted by ( X_Roxas_XD

oh right so thats what you mean.yep got that.so Sora's whole?i mean by without Roxas, Sora would be incomplete?i have to go then i'll read your reply tomorow.

Without Roxas he would be incomplete, but without Namine rejoining Kairi he would also still be incomplete.
Namine not being rejoined with Kairi is what holds Sora and Roxas back from being complete (Thus the scene involving Sora/Roxas, and Kairi/Namine near the end of the game).
Namine is part of Sora, and until she was restored to her original self, that part of Sora was kept locked-up.

[Artistry of Schedius]

you know at the end before the dragon chase,namine came out of Kairi.yeah?you said that Roxas would be locked up inside Sora coz thats what holds them back.How did Roxas come out of Sora in that scene and When in the game did namine merge with Kairi?

[KCDjedi]

Originally Posted by ( X_Roxas_XD

you know at the end before the dragon chase,namine came out of Kairi.yeah?you said that Roxas would be locked up inside Sora coz thats what holds them back.How did Roxas come out of Sora in that scene and When in the game did namine merge with Kairi?

You're talking about the calm scene just after you think you defeat Xemnas at the end, only to have the Dragon-esque Nobody wreck the place, right?
That's the same scene I was referring to when I quoted Riku: "Don't worry, you're still you."

I don't mean that Roxas was stuck inside Sora, but that Sora and Roxas weren't reconnected until Kairi and Sora were in the same place at the same time, with their respective Nobodies present, willing, and able to "complete" Sora and Kairi.

Roxas wasn't merged with Sora 'til that scene (hence the "fight" between Sora and Roxas shortly before that in the World That Never Was).

Namine didn't merge with Kairi until that same scene that I'm talking about.


Basically, all four of them properly merged at that time to complete Kairi and Sora.

[Riku-Keyblade]

Originally Posted by KCDjedi

You're talking about the calm scene just after you think you defeat Xemnas at the end, only to have the Dragon-esque Nobody wreck the place, right?
That's the same scene I was referring to when I quoted Riku: "Don't worry, you're still you."

I don't mean that Roxas was stuck inside Sora, but that Sora and Roxas weren't reconnected until Kairi and Sora were in the same place at the same time, with their respective Nobodies present, willing, and able to "complete" Sora and Kairi.

Roxas wasn't merged with Sora 'til that scene (hence the "fight" between Sora and Roxas shortly before that in the World That Never Was).

Namine didn't merge with Kairi until that same scene that I'm talking about.


Basically, all four of them properly merged at that time to complete Kairi and Sora.

That's more guessing than it is, proof, i'm afraid. We are lead to believe that Roxas fused back with Sora at the end of his story, which was why Sora woke up.
The sad thing is that there isn't any actual proof one way or the other of when they official 'became complete' again. But do to the fact that Nami and Roxas 'disappear' it would seem to mean that they fused at that time (which is end of Roxas' story for Sora, and shortly after/during when Riku stops Saix at TWTNW for Kairi).

[haX]

Very nice theory/thread/whatever you like to call it. Explains just about everything in a very understandable way. Also, I lol'd at the ~~~wi-fi~~~ bit.

[gotegenks]

NICE! this is well put, clear, and it clears alot of things up!

[KCDjedi]

Originally Posted by haX

Very nice theory/thread/whatever you like to call it. Explains just about everything in a very understandable way. Also, I lol'd at the ~~~wi-fi~~~ bit.

That was my intention ;)

Originally Posted by Riku-Keyblade

That's more guessing than it is, proof, i'm afraid. We are lead to believe that Roxas fused back with Sora at the end of his story, which was why Sora woke up.
The sad thing is that there isn't any actual proof one way or the other of when they official 'became complete' again. But do to the fact that Nami and Roxas 'disappear' it would seem to mean that they fused at that time (which is end of Roxas' story for Sora, and shortly after/during when Riku stops Saix at TWTNW for Kairi).

I was under the impression that Sora woke up because his memories were restored to him (which is the reason why AtW had him there, Roxas was just a bonus to help speed along the process, if I'm remembering correctly).

It's true that there's no proof either way at that point, or, at least, none that I could find or remember.
On the other hand, Sora has no idea of Roxas at that point, yet at the cutscene that I mentioned earlier he jumps a little after Namine and Roxas return to Kairi and Sora, respectively, and Riku says his little reassurance.
Perhaps they did fuse at the Mansion, but without Namine fusing with Kairi, the "Complete" Sora couldn't come back.

Namine is the key to Sora and Roxas fusing.

By the way, I need to edit my little bit about Xehanort's Heartless after reading Ansem Report 12

Ansem Report 12 - This report is given to you after the defeat of Sephiroth.

I have transcended to an existence of only the heart. I should have come back as a Heartless, but there is no sign of such a transformation.

My body has surely perished. However, I am different from the other Heartless, keeping the memories of before, and I have not taken on the form of a Heartless. It is clear that there are still many things to be studied.