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  1. #31
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    Default Re: THEORY: Xion is the Thirteenth Seeker of Darkness

    Quote Originally Posted by Zip View Post
    If isn’t a indication of something, why would it be in the trailer or in the game at all for that matter? The fact that there’s another Riku is not a question. Riku meets an other him briefly in DDD. Now he mentions another him again. The scene was included in the trailer to show us another Riku will be relevant to the plot. While we know nothing about the nature of this manifestation of Riku, besides that he wears an Organization coat and Riku believes he needs Way to Dawn to find his way back to the light, the fact that he exists in some form isn’t a question.

    Now how this Riku will be used in the story, we do not yet know. And I never claimed my speculation on his role to be fact, only that he exists even if just as an illusion of some kind. He’s part of the game.

    Now if you choose to ignore what the scenes show or don’t understand the concept of using foreshadowing in a story, that’s your deal. If it turns out Riku is just loses his marbles, speaking in senseless ramblings, and they decide to not payoff on the DDD scene, then you can feel free to come back and correct me when the time comes.

    Regardless, there is much more credibility to the Other Riku existing than there is that Demyx will be in the Organization simply because other old members and that somehow meaning Xion won’t be a Darkness if an evil Riku is one.
    We literally don't know what that Riku in DDD was about. It could easily have been part of that world's dream and that's likely what it was given what was going on.

    Again you're speculating. It's not fact. Until we get actual clarification in KH3, which comes out this year, then that's what it will remain. Speculation. You could end up right. You could end up wrong.

  2. #32
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    Default Re: THEORY: Xion is the Thirteenth Seeker of Darkness

    Quote Originally Posted by KeyToDestiny View Post
    We literally don't know what that Riku in DDD was about. It could easily have been part of that world's dream and that's likely what it was given what was going on.

    Again you're speculating. It's not fact. Until we get actual clarification in KH3, which comes out this year, then that's what it will remain. Speculation. You could end up right. You could end up wrong.
    There’s a reason they didn’t delve into the meaning during DDD; it’s being revisited in KH3 as now evidenced by the Don’t Think Twice scene. Riku literally says he’s leaving it in case “the other me” needs it. He doesn’t say “an;” he specifically says “the” because he knows this other Riku is out there somewhere.

    Again, a manifestation of Riku will be in the game, whether as a physical being, a ghost of his past in his head, or whatever. He is most likely a key part of OG Riku’s story. It would be totally illogical to put the scene in the trailer, end it on that specific beat, or even write that piece of dialogue if it isn’t relevant and just something Riku is saying for no reason whatever. That isn’t how writing works.

  3. #33
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    Default Re: THEORY: Xion is the Thirteenth Seeker of Darkness

    Seems likely.

    At least there's a much stronger chance that a Xion Replica would be a SOD, instead of Ven or Roxas.

  4. #34
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    Default Re: THEORY: Xion is the Thirteenth Seeker of Darkness

    Quote Originally Posted by ImVentus View Post
    Seems likely.

    At least there's a much stronger chance that a Xion Replica would be a SOD, instead of Ven or Roxas.
    I don’t think her being a SoD means Ventus or Roxas will not. Technically, I don’t think Ven will be one. But I do think Vanitas will take his body. Since Ven himself wouldn’t be taking up any slots of the 13, Xion is still capable of being one alongside Venitas. Therefore, Xion being a Darkness does not rule out Venitas.

    Roxas and Xion could also both be. It would make things make Lea much more driven to defeat Xehanort and free them.

    However, I don’t think Roxas will be one if Venitas is one. I also don’t think both Roxas and Ventus will be Guardians. It would feel weird to me if they both are which would mean either Mickey, Lea, Riku, Kairi, or Aqua would be off the list.

    I think if they want to include everyone in the conflict, the best way is for Venitas and Xion to be Darknesses and Roxas to be a Light.

    I just doubt Riku and Mickey will rescue Aqua and Ven without a hiccup. I think RMA will get Ven out of the Chamber of Waking, but before they can get him to Sora to restore his heart, they’ll be ambushed by the Organization and Ven’s body will be kidnapped or Vanitas will absorb it on the spot. This Organization battle would be a great finale to Riku and Mickey’s RoD scenario.

  5. #35
    Keyblade Master ImVentus's Avatar
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    Default Re: THEORY: Xion is the Thirteenth Seeker of Darkness

    Quote Originally Posted by Zip View Post
    I just doubt Riku and Mickey will rescue Aqua and Ven without a hiccup. I think RMA will get Ven out of the Chamber of Waking, but before they can get him to Sora to restore his heart, they’ll be ambushed by the Organization and Ven’s body will be kidnapped or Vanitas will absorb it on the spot. This Organization battle would be a great finale to Riku and Mickey’s RoD scenario.
    Nah
    that would be way too cliché, even if it makes Master Xehanort look more cunning. I hope that doesn't happen to be honest. I would want for it to be a happy reunion instead of a ambush.

  6. #36
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    Default Re: THEORY: Xion is the Thirteenth Seeker of Darkness

    Quote Originally Posted by ImVentus View Post
    Nah
    that would be way too cliché, even if it makes Master Xehanort look more cunning. I hope that doesn't happen to be honest. I would want for it to be a happy reunion instead of a ambush.
    Lol this is KH man. One of the most cliche series ever. Cliche is not bad if its well-executed and logical to flow of the story. It would be weak storytelling for everything to go exactly as Mickey and Yen Sid plan without a hitch, which we already know won’t be the case. There’s no tension or drama there. Ven and Terra are equal persons of importance for Aqua. I think it’s more rewarding if she is reunited with them both at the end when they’re freed from Xehanort’s control.

    Vanitas controlling Ventus’ body, maximizing his strength without Ven’s heart there to resist is something we haven’t seen before. Even when fighting Aqua and Mickey, he didn’t have his full strength.

    Plus, with his heart more or less awakened inside of Sora, Ventus could still appear throughout Sora’s story like Kairi did in visions in KH1. That way, it won’t be like we never see him until after the final battle. It’s possible Sora may have to enter Ven’s sleeping world (Daybreak town maybe?) to release Ven’s heart.

    It would be adorable if Sora enters his heart only to find Ventus, Roxas, and Xion goofing off together. Then when the three of them see Sora, they all get so excited to see him. And like after all the stuff about them being tormented, it turns out Sora’s heart is pretty dope place to hang out. :P

  7. #37
    Keyblade Master ImVentus's Avatar
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    Default Re: THEORY: Xion is the Thirteenth Seeker of Darkness

    Quote Originally Posted by Zip View Post
    Lol this is KH man. One of the most cliche series ever. Cliche is not bad if its well-executed and logical to flow of the story. It would be weak storytelling for everything to go exactly as Mickey and Yen Sid plan without a hitch, which we already know won’t be the case. There’s no tension or drama there. Ven and Terra are equal persons of importance for Aqua. I think it’s more rewarding if she is reunited with them both at the end when they’re freed from Xehanort’s control.

    Vanitas controlling Ventus’ body, maximizing his strength without Ven’s heart there to resist is something we haven’t seen before. Even when fighting Aqua and Mickey, he didn’t have his full strength.

    Plus, with his heart more or less awakened inside of Sora, Ventus could still appear throughout Sora’s story like Kairi did in visions in KH1. That way, it won’t be like we never see him until after the final battle. It’s possible Sora may have to enter Ven’s sleeping world (Daybreak town maybe?) to release Ven’s heart.

    It would be adorable if Sora enters his heart only to find Ventus, Roxas, and Xion goofing off together. Then when the three of them see Sora, they all get so excited to see him. And like after all the stuff about them being tormented, it turns out Sora’s heart is pretty dope place to hang out. :P
    Yup KH has always been, but I still think even a decision like that would be a little too entertaining on my behalf. We'll see what happens.

    Venitas come into play however, would be interesting.

    I'm very sure that Ven's heart is awake at this point.

    That would be quite a scene to witness with VRX all interacting.

  8. #38
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    Default Re: THEORY: Xion is the Thirteenth Seeker of Darkness

    Quote Originally Posted by ImVentus View Post
    Yup KH has always been, but I still think even a decision like that would be a little too entertaining on my behalf. We'll see what happens.

    Venitas come into play however, would be interesting.

    I'm very sure that Ven's heart is awake at this point.

    That would be quite a scene to witness with VRX all interacting.
    Venitas being a thing is my whole point for them capturing Ven. xD We didn’t see Vanitas in full control in BBS, so it would show what would actually happen in that scenario. Although, since Ven’s heart wouldn’t actually be involved in the fusion, he wouldn’t have the x-blade as to not defeat the purpose of the 7 lights vs 13 Darknesses.

    Yeah I think it would be really nice for Sora to have a private reunion with VRX who are the three characters most literally connected to his heart. If things are looking grim in the conflict, they can all gas him up and bring him peace of mind that they believe in him and know he’ll succeed.

    Plus, I’d find it hilarious for Sora to go in expecting them to be “in torment,” when in fact they’re just playing with toy swords and eating sea salt ice cream. While I want to see the first time Roxas and Ven onscreen, I’d be ok with it if they’ve already established a twin brother-like relationship after all the time they’ve spent together in Sora’s heart.

  9. #39
    Poutymer in da house Sephiroth0812's Avatar
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    Default Re: THEORY: Xion is the Thirteenth Seeker of Darkness

    Quote Originally Posted by Zip View Post
    Lol this is KH man. One of the most cliche series ever. Cliche is not bad if its well-executed and logical to flow of the story. It would be weak storytelling for everything to go exactly as Mickey and Yen Sid plan without a hitch, which we already know won’t be the case. There’s no tension or drama there. Ven and Terra are equal persons of importance for Aqua. I think it’s more rewarding if she is reunited with them both at the end when they’re freed from Xehanort’s control.

    Vanitas controlling Ventus’ body, maximizing his strength without Ven’s heart there to resist is something we haven’t seen before. Even when fighting Aqua and Mickey, he didn’t have his full strength.
    It is bad however for both Ventus and Terra as characters since them remaining under the control of the enemy until the very last parts of the game runs the very real risks of them being portrayed as constant failures who can't contribute to the fall of the enemy who has had a hold on them/is responsible for them being incapacitated for so long in the first place.
    Not to mention that the whole issue of Aqua angsting and worrying over them was already portrayed in both BBS and 0.2, there is no need to do it a third time in KH 3.

    The stakes are already incredibly high to begin with and another purpose of KH 3 is to bring Xehanort's enemies together so he can finally be defeated in contrast to where each of the trios failed individually.
    Constantly giving parts of the major characters over to the enemy side and forcing them to continue being opponents to those they want to support is going completely against that notion and, at least in my view no matter how "well-executed" (the writing in this series is generally only mediocre at best anyways) completely unnecessary and superfluous drama that in one way or another just rehashes scenarios we've already had in one of the other titles, be it Days, BBS or 0.2.

    "Venitas" or Ventus-Vanitas as the creature is officially called is literally only Vanitas chilling in Ven's body with the hairstyle + hair- and -eye-color changed, no difference to regular Vanitas especially if the X-blade isn't even in play, both personality and power-wise.
    Without the X-blade (and thus Ven's heart) in play, it is literally only Vanitas with blond hair.


    Quote Originally Posted by ImVentus View Post
    Yup KH has always been, but I still think even a decision like that would be a little too entertaining on my behalf. We'll see what happens.

    Venitas come into play however, would be interesting.

    I'm very sure that Ven's heart is awake at this point.
    It is somewhat predictable and as a decision really easy to discern as being done just for actual cheap drama rather than sound story reasons, or from some fans viewpoints, to get characters out of the way they don't want to be a GoL so their fave can step up and get a slot.

    I dunno about that, this "character" is essentially just Vanitas with blond hair, nothing really different from regular Vanitas, especially when taking into account the hypothetical decision of Ven's heart not being involved this time.
    That being said though, in such a case it would also be easier for a true Keyblade Master like i.e. Aqua or Riku to just extract Vanitas' heart from the body and, idk, banish it to the Realm of Darkness in order to get Ven his body back.

    That's something that cannot put to debate anymore as Ven is clearly speaking through Sora in the trailer.
    It was also obvious that Ventus awakened by the final parts of Dream Drop Distance as his heart willingly decided to let Sora borrow his Keyblade armor and made his body smile (which proves that despite not being inside it Ven's heart still has a connection and possible a certain amount of control over its body) in the final scene.

  10. #40
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    Default Re: THEORY: Xion is the Thirteenth Seeker of Darkness

    I could see her being an option but I feel Ven or the original organization is more likely. But given that Repliku is hinted at being Norted so Xion coming back and Norted is on the table.

    I wouldn't put it past Nomura.

  11. #41
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    Default Re: THEORY: Xion is the Thirteenth Seeker of Darkness

    Quote Originally Posted by Sephiroth0812 View Post
    It is bad however for both Ventus and Terra as characters since them remaining under the control of the enemy until the very last parts of the game runs the very real risks of them being portrayed as constant failures who can't contribute to the fall of the enemy who has had a hold on them/is responsible for them being incapacitated for so long in the first place.
    Not to mention that the whole issue of Aqua angsting and worrying over them was already portrayed in both BBS and 0.2, there is no need to do it a third time in KH 3.

    The stakes are already incredibly high to begin with and another purpose of KH 3 is to bring Xehanort's enemies together so he can finally be defeated in contrast to where each of the trios failed individually.
    Constantly giving parts of the major characters over to the enemy side and forcing them to continue being opponents to those they want to support is going completely against that notion and, at least in my view no matter how "well-executed" (the writing in this series is generally only mediocre at best anyways) completely unnecessary and superfluous drama that in one way or another just rehashes scenarios we've already had in one of the other titles, be it Days, BBS or 0.2.

    "Venitas" or Ventus-Vanitas as the creature is officially called is literally only Vanitas chilling in Ven's body with the hairstyle + hair- and -eye-color changed, no difference to regular Vanitas especially if the X-blade isn't even in play, both personality and power-wise.
    Without the X-blade (and thus Ven's heart) in play, it is literally only Vanitas with blond hair.




    It is somewhat predictable and as a decision really easy to discern as being done just for actual cheap drama rather than sound story reasons, or from some fans viewpoints, to get characters out of the way they don't want to be a GoL so their fave can step up and get a slot.

    I dunno about that, this "character" is essentially just Vanitas with blond hair, nothing really different from regular Vanitas, especially when taking into account the hypothetical decision of Ven's heart not being involved this time.
    That being said though, in such a case it would also be easier for a true Keyblade Master like i.e. Aqua or Riku to just extract Vanitas' heart from the body and, idk, banish it to the Realm of Darkness in order to get Ven his body back.

    That's something that cannot put to debate anymore as Ven is clearly speaking through Sora in the trailer.
    It was also obvious that Ventus awakened by the final parts of Dream Drop Distance as his heart willingly decided to let Sora borrow his Keyblade armor and made his body smile (which proves that despite not being inside it Ven's heart still has a connection and possible a certain amount of control over its body) in the final scene.
    I’m going to make a separate thread on this subject so we don’t derail Alpha Baymax’s since it’s about Xion, which we can at least agree her being a darkness is not directly related to this scenario.

    But just for the record, I use Venitas for simplicity and it’s funny to me that they essentially have a celebrity couple name. xD

  12. #42
    Poutymer in da house Sephiroth0812's Avatar
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    Default Re: THEORY: Xion is the Thirteenth Seeker of Darkness

    Quote Originally Posted by Zip View Post
    I’m going to make a separate thread on this subject so we don’t derail Alpha Baymax’s since it’s about Xion, which we can at least agree her being a darkness is not directly related to this scenario.

    But just for the record, I use Venitas for simplicity and it’s funny to me that they essentially have a celebrity couple name. xD
    The crux of the whole thing, and a second reason why I agree with Alpha Baymax' theory besides it being an opportunity to further explore and bring about a conclusion to the Replica project, is that in his theory the "Xion" that is created for the 13th spot isn't the actual original Xion known from Days, allowing her to stay on the heroes side instead of being forced to fight against them, regardless if she is rescued and restored before the climatic clash or if she's necessarily one of the seven guardians or not.
    So expanding the general issue about "good characters other than Terra also forced to serve Xehanort" isn't exactly derailing the thread as it addresses the same framework as the theory itself is about.

    As far as I know that nickname, just as "Terranort", which is also technically false, is rather widespread in fandom anyways and I doubt that many actually know the official names.

  13. #43
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    Default Re: THEORY: Xion is the Thirteenth Seeker of Darkness

    Quote Originally Posted by Sephiroth0812 View Post
    As far as I know that nickname, just as "Terranort", which is also technically false, is rather widespread in fandom anyways and I doubt that many actually know the official names.
    Exactly. It’s a term generally accepted by the fan base and you know what it is referring to, therefore it’s trivial to “correct” someone over a colloquial term. It doesn’t have anything to do with what’s right or wrong with a theory.

    I’d rather discuss it in a different thread because OP started this thread to discuss Xion’s potential as a darkness. Ven’s can warrant a thread just as well. My theory is completely separate from OP’s and they are capable of co-existing.

    It was only brought up as I was pointing out that Xion being a Darkness does not in any way mean Ven or Roxas will not be. I just find it ironic that people want to repeat the same plot thread of creating Xion over again, but creating Venitas again would ruin the game. Neither of them are bad ideas as long as they’re well-executed.

    Whether you choose to partake in the new thread will be your prerogative.

    Back on the topic of OP’s theory, I do think that this new Xion 2.0 could be a darkness. If no one remembers Xion, I can see Even coming back to the idea of creating her as if it’s the first time he’s done it.

    But would they make her a replica of Sora again or change it up to make her a replica of Xehanort? I would assume the former to get Sora and Xehanort’s combined power, but it would be interesting to see what a true Xehanort replica would look like. Maybe she would take on the appearance of someone who is to Xehanort what Kairi is to Sora? Maybe Eraqus and Xehanort were a trio with a woman at some point... Just a random thought.... (It’s Kairi’s grandma, obviously.)
    Last edited by Zip; March 14, 2018 at 10:42 PM.

  14. #44
    Poutymer in da house Sephiroth0812's Avatar
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    Default Re: THEORY: Xion is the Thirteenth Seeker of Darkness

    Quote Originally Posted by Zip View Post
    Exactly. It’s a term generally accepted by the fan base and you know what it is referring to, therefore it’s trivial to “correct” someone over a colloquial term. It doesn’t have anything to do with what’s right or wrong with a theory.

    I just find it ironic that people want to repeat the same plot thread of creating Xion over again, but creating Venitas again would ruin the game. Neither of them are bad ideas as long as they’re well-executed.
    It's more of a reflex in the (likely futile) hope that the wider fandom will eventually learn to use the official ones, lol.

    Ah yea, on first glance it's indeed similar, yet the plot thread of "another Xion" offers the additional opportunity to delve more into and eventually conclude the whole Replica project-plot that is left dangling from older entries of the series as well as it would provide more possibilities to involve other characters like Even/Vexen as well.
    The whole Ventus-Vanitas variant would do little more than incapacitate Ventus as an acting force.
    The proposed here for Xion though wouldn't incapacitate the original Xion the audience knows already due to it being a new replica.
    Theoretically this could even set up an actual battle of the new Xion vs the original one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zip View Post
    Back on the topic of OP’s theory, I do think that this new Xion 2.0 could be a darkness. If no one remembers Xion, I can see Even coming back to the idea of creating her as if it’s the first time he’s done it.

    But would they make her a replica of Sora again or change it up to make her a replica of Xehanort? I would assume the former to get Sora and Xehanort’s combined power, but it would be interesting to see what a true Xehanort replica would look like. Maybe she would take on the appearance of someone who is to Xehanort what Kairi is to Sora? Maybe Eraqus and Xehanort were a trio with a woman at some point... Just a random thought.... (It’s Kairi’s grandma, obviously.)
    Hmm, good point.
    Or Even/Vexen could somehow subconsciously be led to do it because he already did it before.
    In the same vein as Young Xehanort's "etched into my heart despite being forgotten"-explanation in DDD.

    This is actually an important aspect.
    Who that replica is a replica of (stupid wording maybe) is decided by which memories are put into its empty heart as a foundation.
    The original Xion was a Replica of Sora due to being "activated" with memory samples of Sora Xemnas gathered before fighting him in KH 1 while the Riku Replica was "activated" with data Vexen gathered while fighting Riku in CoM.
    So who the new Xion would be a replica of would be decided by which "data" is used to "activate" her, as the theory also speaks about using the Riku Replica creation phase.
    Xehanort using a piece of his own heart would probably be the most obvious answer.

  15. #45
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    Default Re: THEORY: Xion is the Thirteenth Seeker of Darkness

    Quote Originally Posted by Sephiroth0812 View Post
    Hmm, good point.
    Or Even/Vexen could somehow subconsciously be led to do it because he already did it before.
    In the same vein as Young Xehanort's "etched into my heart despite being forgotten"-explanation in DDD.

    This is actually an important aspect.
    Who that replica is a replica of (stupid wording maybe) is decided by which memories are put into its empty heart as a foundation.
    The original Xion was a Replica of Sora due to being "activated" with memory samples of Sora Xemnas gathered before fighting him in KH 1 while the Riku Replica was "activated" with data Vexen gathered while fighting Riku in CoM.
    So who the new Xion would be a replica of would be decided by which "data" is used to "activate" her, as the theory also speaks about using the Riku Replica creation phase.
    Xehanort using a piece of his own heart would probably be the most obvious answer.
    It could even potentially take on the appearance of Eraqus? He’s the person Xehanort’s known the longest as far as the series has shown. That kind of takes this theory in a different direction, but still an interesting thought.

 

 
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