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  1. #16
    Zemunasu Ballad of Caius's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should Kingdom Hearts Get Rebooted?

    Quote Originally Posted by Griewer View Post
    Love it when people want the creator of a series thrown out. Kingdom Hearts without Nomura is like Metal Gear without Kojima.
    No one said to throw Nomura out of the franchise, but rather out, keep him out of the writing and only see him as an ideas man.

    And Metal Gear is above Kojima. Ask him himself: METAL GEAR SOLID 2 is an ode to his team being capable enough.

  2. #17
    Poutymer in da house Sephiroth0812's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should Kingdom Hearts Get Rebooted?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ballad of Caius View Post
    The only rebooting the series needs is keeping Nomura OUT OF THE WRITERS ROOM.
    I wouldn't even go that far.
    Nomura can still be involved with the scenario but he certainly needs a team of writers to proofread his stuff and actually tell him when shit makes no sense.

    The main problem is Nomura doing all the scenario writing alone.

    That being said, an actual reboot is not needed at all.
    I swear this topic seems to pop up every second year or so.

  3. #18
    Unversed Griewer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should Kingdom Hearts Get Rebooted?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ballad of Caius View Post
    No one said to throw Nomura out of the franchise, but rather out, keep him out of the writing and only see him as an ideas man.

    And Metal Gear is above Kojima. Ask him himself: METAL GEAR SOLID 2 is an ode to his team being capable enough.

    If you keep him out of writing, you get a completely different game with a different story and a completely different atmosphere. The whole thing is infused with Nomura as every creation is infused with the soul of its creator. And I do know that making a game or a film is not a one person job, but usually the heart of the group is the director. The developers help realize their vision, not the other way around.

    And that is being modest. Metal Gear is above Kojima, as he didn't make it single-handedly. But without him, Metal Gear probably wouldn't be what it is.

  4. #19
    Unversed des97's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should Kingdom Hearts Get Rebooted?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ballad of Caius View Post
    The only rebooting the series needs is keeping Nomura OUT OF THE WRITERS ROOM.
    Oh my god finally someone with the audacity to speak the truth. The plot, alongside with the character development is a total mess and needs to be rebooted. I personally love Kingdom Hearts, but the best critiques come from the ones who can truly put their feelings aside and face reality: Nomura does not know how to write a coherent story. He is an amazing character designer though, we need to acknowledge that. But yeah, I would definitely want the whole Dark Seeker Saga to be remade, while keeping the main plot points of course. I would never accept huge changes. At that point, it wouldn't be Kingdom Hearts anymore. I would personally start by making each game tie to the others in a better and more fluid way, for example by introducing various characters at the very beginning. Let me explain: the very first scene of KH1 would be Ventus connecting to Sora. That's it. Leave it as a mystery and make people go crazy when they think it's Roxas but it's actually not him. But if you introduce all the characters at the right moment, the plot will feel more satisfying. As of now, it just feels things are being added while trying not to f**k up what's been said before, even though sometimes it's impossible and you can clearly see where they messed up. And this, folks, is not a correct way to write a story. Sorry for the rant but I wish more people understood this
    Last edited by des97; February 8, 2019 at 10:00 PM. Reason: .

  5. #20
    Unversed Griewer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should Kingdom Hearts Get Rebooted?

    Quote Originally Posted by des97 View Post
    Oh my god finally someone with the audacity to speak the truth. The plot, alongside with the character development is a total mess and needs to be rebooted. I personally love Kingdom Hearts, but the best critiques come from the ones who can truly put their feelings aside and face reality: Nomura does not know how to write a coherent story. He is an amazing character designer though, we need to acknowledge that. But yeah, I would definitely want the whole Dark Seeker Saga to be remade, while keeping the main plot points of course. I would never accept huge changes. At that point, it wouldn't be Kingdom Hearts anymore. I would personally start by making each game tie to the others in a better and more fluid way, for example by introducing various characters at the very beginning. Let me explain: the very first scene of KH1 would be Ventus connecting to Sora. That's it. Leave it as a mystery and make people go crazy when they think it's Roxas but it's actually not him. But if you introduce all the characters at the right moment, the plot will feel more satisfying. As of now, it just feels things are being added while trying not to f**k up what's been said before, even though sometimes it's impossible and you can clearly see where they messed up. And this, folks, is not a correct way to write a story. Sorry for the rant but I wish more people understood this
    Please do tell me how would anyone confuse Ven with Roxas now that we know they are different. Rebooting a game without significantly changing the story has a huge flaw -> the fact that there are no surprises left for us. Nobody would be surprised at anything. Yes-yes certain plot points or scenes would be done better (I'm looking at the infamous Riku vs Roxas scene, which is quite weird now), and of course Kairi would actually utter proper sentences for a change. But at the end of the day you wouldn't change the main plot points, which means that most of the things you didn't like, would remain quite the same.

    And to be honest, people went mad when they first saw Ventus, because they thought he was Roxas, but he wasn't. You merely changed the order. That ain't a big achievement.
    And of course they added stuff as the game went on. Since neither Disney, nor SE knew how profitable the game would be, they didn't start out big. As the game grew, the story grew along with it. And they might've diddlyed up. Stories that evolve and expand usually reach that point, where the story doesn't fit as much as it did previously.

    Also, what feels satisfying is really a personal thing. I found this series, this story to be absolutely satisfying. And having a random guy rewrite the whole thing would feel like the game was gutted.


    ---

    Also in my version of the reboot, we would erase Kairi after KHI because her only role in the rest of the games is to be in the way of the truest pairing of all. :D

  6. #21
    Unversed des97's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should Kingdom Hearts Get Rebooted?

    Quote Originally Posted by Griewer View Post
    Please do tell me how would anyone confuse Ven with Roxas now that we know they are different. Rebooting a game without significantly changing the story has a huge flaw -> the fact that there are no surprises left for us. Nobody would be surprised at anything. Yes-yes certain plot points or scenes would be done better (I'm looking at the infamous Riku vs Roxas scene, which is quite weird now), and of course Kairi would actually utter proper sentences for a change. But at the end of the day you wouldn't change the main plot points, which means that most of the things you didn't like, would remain quite the same.
    I don't know man, I just want Kingdom Hearts to be better so when I replay the games I do not encounter any plotholes.

  7. #22
    Unversed Griewer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should Kingdom Hearts Get Rebooted?

    Quote Originally Posted by des97 View Post
    I don't know man, I just want Kingdom Hearts to be better so when I replay the games I do not encounter any plotholes.
    I do agree, that Nomura should be given a story supervision squadron, who could point out the odd bits of the story, and the possible plotholes. But to be honest, at the speed KH games are released... I wouldn't want SE to spend precious time and money on rebooting the first saga (and its 10-12 different titles).

  8. #23
    Unversed des97's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should Kingdom Hearts Get Rebooted?

    Quote Originally Posted by Griewer View Post
    I do agree, that Nomura should be given a story supervision squadron, who could point out the odd bits of the story, and the possible plotholes. But to be honest, at the speed KH games are released... I wouldn't want SE to spend precious time and money on rebooting the first saga (and its 10-12 different titles).
    Yep, I'm no way implying this should be done in a few years. It could take as long as needed, maybe a Dark Seeker Saga reboot in like a decade? When it's the right time to hit us with nostalgia.

  9. #24
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    Default Re: Should Kingdom Hearts Get Rebooted?

    Mhhh... is there such a thing as a "soft reboot"? Because the series doesn't really need to get rebooted, but some elements definitely needed to be presented, or even written better. And not all of them are things you can change afterwards without going against what the series established.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ballad of Caius View Post
    No one said to throw Nomura out of the franchise, but rather out, keep him out of the writing and only see him as an ideas man.

    And Metal Gear is above Kojima. Ask him himself: METAL GEAR SOLID 2 is an ode to his team being capable enough.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sephiroth0812 View Post
    I wouldn't even go that far.
    Nomura can still be involved with the scenario but he certainly needs a team of writers to proofread his stuff and actually tell him when shit makes no sense.

    The main problem is Nomura doing all the scenario writing alone.

    That being said, an actual reboot is not needed at all.
    I swear this topic seems to pop up every second year or so.

    Exactly. Nomura out of the writing team or within it but with limitations/supervision isn't "Kingdom Hearts without Nomura". I'd even say it's common sense, since even the most able writer is just one person and might need help with covering all bases or hearing different angles. I write stories and man if I know how much of this is true.
    Either way, Nomura definitely has much room for improvement in his writing skills and picked up some bad habits he should try to grow out of.

    Bringing Kojima into this actually gives much more ground for us claiming Nomura needs to be helped and/or supervised: some of them are mostly a meme, but there are definitely a lot of famous instances where Kojima wanted to do something absolutely crazy with his games and was prevented to do so. I like to think that those interferences also helped making Metal Gear as big and great as it was.
    Giving carte blanche to one persone under the guise that "only they can do the job" or that it wouldn't be the same can actually become detrimental to the project itself.
    We're all humans and not every single one of our ideas is perfect as soon as we think it. And self-reviewing them is extremely hard, given that of course our own idea sounds great to us.

  10. #25
    Keyblade Apprentice Rodin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should Kingdom Hearts Get Rebooted?

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkosOverlord View Post
    Mhhh... is there such a thing as a "soft reboot"? Because the series doesn't really need to get rebooted, but some elements definitely needed to be presented, or even written better. And not all of them are things you can change afterwards without going against what the series established.






    Exactly. Nomura out of the writing team or within it but with limitations/supervision isn't "Kingdom Hearts without Nomura". I'd even say it's common sense, since even the most able writer is just one person and might need help with covering all bases or hearing different angles. I write stories and man if I know how much of this is true.
    Either way, Nomura definitely has much room for improvement in his writing skills and picked up some bad habits he should try to grow out of.

    Bringing Kojima into this actually gives much more ground for us claiming Nomura needs to be helped and/or supervised: some of them are mostly a meme, but there are definitely a lot of famous instances where Kojima wanted to do something absolutely crazy with his games and was prevented to do so. I like to think that those interferences also helped making Metal Gear as big and great as it was.
    Giving carte blanche to one persone under the guise that "only they can do the job" or that it wouldn't be the same can actually become detrimental to the project itself.
    We're all humans and not every single one of our ideas is perfect as soon as we think it. And self-reviewing them is extremely hard, given that of course our own idea sounds great to us.
    Soft reboots do exist as DC does them all the time. They don't work well because DC either changes too much, changes too little or doesn't commit to their changes. They try to bend over backward to fix it and often make a bigger mess in the process.

    The difference is hard reboots is an everything must go approach while soft reboots keep a few. Like a soft reboot for KH would be just keeping KH1 and tossing everything else out. You could expand to keeping Kh1/CoM or KH1/CoM/KH2 but the point remains.
    Last edited by Rodin; February 9, 2019 at 05:56 PM.

  11. #26
    SENA Hates Him! The_Echo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should Kingdom Hearts Get Rebooted?

    I like the series just the way it is to be honest.
    It's not perfect, there are things I don't like, but that's fine.

    And I'd be pissed if they reset everything before seeing the χ​ saga to completion 'cause I love it so far

  12. #27
    You're Too Late. KeybladeLordSora's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should Kingdom Hearts Get Rebooted?

    Nope.

    Just get Nomura some assistants. That's all.

    Aside from that, I like the series the way it is.

  13. #28
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    Default Re: Should Kingdom Hearts Get Rebooted?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodin View Post
    Soft reboots do exist as DC does them all the time. They don't work well because DC either changes too much, changes too little or doesn't commit to their changes. They try to bend over backward to fix it and often make a bigger mess in the process.

    The difference is hard reboots is an everything must go approach while soft reboots keep a few. Like a soft reboot for KH would be just keeping KH1 and tossing everything else out. You could expand to keeping Kh1/CoM or KH1/CoM/KH2 but the point remains.
    Okay, so they do exist but they're gimmick-y to do. Gotcha.
    Well not even I feel like going that far, no. BbS establishes basically the new course for the series and I don't think removing it completely would keep the spirit intact.

  14. #29
    Keyblade Apprentice Rodin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should Kingdom Hearts Get Rebooted?

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkosOverlord View Post
    Okay, so they do exist but they're gimmick-y to do. Gotcha.
    Well not even I feel like going that far, no. BbS establishes basically the new course for the series and I don't think removing it completely would keep the spirit intact.
    You could keep BBS if you want. I just started to get jaded in the Xehanort saga so I rather not do it again. Or I rather just streamline it down to make it more manageable.

    Someone once asked about doing the series without nobodies so I started to think about that thread. Granted I probably would do the Xehanort stuff but differently.

    At best the only stories I'd get rid off is Days and Coded. Everything I'd just whip into shape like DDD.

    Reboots are gimmicky and not really needed outside of Marvel/DC or public domain properties like Sherlock Holmes.

  15. #30
    Zemunasu Ballad of Caius's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should Kingdom Hearts Get Rebooted?

    I think things are going to get worse because of how giddy Nomura is with the KHx lore and now that he's adding his Versus XIII ideas.

    Or, y'know, since he's implementing Versus, he could try to be more competent now.

    But again, Nomura can be a competent writer. FINAL FANTASY XV is basically his work, minus Lunafreya.

 

 
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