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  1. #1
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    Default Am I the only one who hates the idea of Sora and Kairi being a couple and hopes it never happens?

    The reason why I hate this ship so much is because of how ridiculous and unlikely it is. Sora and Kairi are childhood friends and they have a crush on each other.

    There's only about a 10 out of 100 chance that childhood friends will fall in love with each other. Reasons are because they knew each other as children and are more likely to feel sisterly/brotherly towards each other. It would feel incestuous if they dated. Also there's no mystery, nothing more to learn about the person. So dating them would be very boring.

    People not being attracted to those who they grew up with is an evolutionary safety mechanism to prevent a lack of genetic diversity.

    I've never had a crush on any of my childhood friends ever (because I thought of them as siblings), and I've never knew anyone else that ever had a crush on any of their childhood friends neither (because they probably thought of them as siblings too). So the idea of Sora and Kairi being together just sounds very ridiculous and very unlikely because of the reasons I stated.

    Have you ever heard of the "Westermarck effect"? Here's the TV Tropes page that is about the Westermarck effect: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LikeBrotherAndSister

    Here are a couple of a sentences from the "real life" section of the TV Tropes page about the Westermarck effect:

    "A particularly nasty example of this trope occurred in 16th century France. At the time, marriages among royalty were arranged, and some of the unions were less than joyous. As a result, someone got the bright idea that if the young princes were raised with their respective fiancées from an early age, they would become accustomed to one another and grow up to form stable marriages. Unfortunately, since the couples weren't too closely related by blood or adoption, no one counted on the Westermarck effect described above. Thus, when it came time for the couples to grow up and get married, they saw each other as this trope, and the process of trying to produce heirs squicked them so much that they did so as little as possible, if at all. The nasty part comes in when, due to lack of heirs, the ruling Valois dynasty died out, and the resultant Succession Crisis led to civil war."

    As I said, Sora and Kairi have been life-long friends, and usually life-long friends are seen as family, and most aren't attracted to those who are seen as family. Therefore, I highly doubt in real life that Sora would be attracted to Kairi just due to the fact that they have always been together.

    Just to add another proof that childhood friends aren't usually romantically attracted to each other, here's this one guy's comment on YouTube that I found that said:

    "in my experience, I am a heterosexual male, and there was several instances where I have seen my life-long best friend (female) completely nude and was not aroused at all. Since I have been around her for so long, and saw her more of as family than a possible mate. I felt more like when you walk into your parents room while they are getting it on rather than lets say, walking into a prostitute house."

    So Sora and Kairi's relationship is very ridiculous and very unlikely. Also the whole childhood friends becoming lovers is a clichéd thing in fiction that needs to stop.
       

  2. #2
    Nobody MelodicEnigma's Avatar
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    Default Re: Am I the only one who hates the idea of Sora and Kairi being a couple and hopes it never happens

    First and foremost, I think it's imperative to understand that the Westermarck Effect is a hypothetical study that has mainly used anthropological, empirical data for its research. When it comes to Westermarck's original source of data, especially the one's mainly pertaining to child rearing scenarios between those of unrelated children, it is founded on controlled environments of the Israeli Kibbutzim community or in related bint'amm marriages. In which, these communities have their own system of sociological and psychological effects that play a role in those outcomes as a result of co-residency, which refers to how these children were specifically raised together in a particular communal residence. This is obviously not the case for Sora and Kairi in an ultimate sense. (I'd suggest looking up the child-rearing conditions of those raised in the kibbutz community)

    Otherwise, most of the other data, especially pertaining to the evolutionary, psychological reasoning of kin-recognition of this theory, has applied mainly to co-residence in the case of actual siblings. Obviously, again, being siblings isn't the case for Sora and Kairi, and of course, you COULD try to apply the co-residency factor for them as well. But, it doesn't hold up. To apply that to their relationship when they weren't necessarily reared together in how the theory suggest isn't logical or as case in point as you want it to be. Also note, that this study is specifically rendered before the age of six, and while its been implied that Sora and Kairi met before that (4 or 5), the term "childhood friends" can accompany ages even after six years old. Childhood friends≠Sibling dynamic, and saying it's also "more likely" isn't an absolute to live by either.

    I understand your point, as it is a very interesting topic to study and consider in general. However, when you're using "proof" such as someone's comment on Youtube and your own personal experience as a substance of factual information to draw a cemented conclusion, that action is indeed the more ridiculous notion for judging another variable, i.e. another relationship in its entirety. Remember the basic foundations of the "questionable cause" fallacies in how you draw your conclusions, and you'll understand why you should approach this less as as a fact or "proofs", and more of an observation.

    As for Sora and Kairi, really, it isn't that complicated to their specific dynamic and role in this game. There are reasons people see each other a certain way, that is true, and there are a myriad of variables that can affect this. What tends to be observed the most is really the end result. Sora and Kairi's relationship is an example of individuals that happen to have obviously retained some emotional/physical attraction to one another as they got older since childhood. It happens, and the basis of their closeness doesn't come across as anything more complicated or deep than that. Though, this could be a result of the writing in the game, but they've had some interesting moments in context of the game's elements that prove how important their friendship is. And, of course, what they're willing to do for each other.

    Now, is it necessarily cliché? Well, I'm not sure if the meaning of that ironic, commonly used criticism really applies here to that degree. Friends being romantically involved, the protagonist falling for another protagonist (especially one encountered from the plot/journey), love at first sight, etc, it's all just storytelling catered to specific characters and environments. Sometimes, as part of experiencing something, you need to look at it in the essence of itself rather than a comparison or identification with other sources. Otherwise, it is easy to not see it for what it is. And, for Sora and Kairi's dynamic in this story, it's pretty fairly simple in its presentation and execution. Hell, the true argument and grievances I personally have seen mainly is that there isn't enough depth presented, this being due to Kingdom Hearts not necessarily emphasizing the "Romance" genre of its storytelling. This would stand to have some basis, especially considering the only other "set" implications of romance in Kingdom Hearts is between Naminé and Roxas, who so conveniently happen to be their Nobodies. That holds its own pile of criticisms and evaluations though, but even its just simply presented to the story and audience.

    Either way, to answer the question of your title: No, you're not the only one who dislikes, or rather, is unimpressed with the romantic venture of Sora and Kairi in the story. I definitely wouldn't say that others have your same reasoning as to why, or to it severity, but you're not alone. I'm not one, as you can probably already tell, but they're out there. To be honest, there's nothing that clearly suggests it won't happen, but the degree of it's advancement in Kingdom Hearts 3, whether it's a face-to-face confession or even, dare I say, a kiss, might be something to look into or think about in expectation.
    Last edited by MelodicEnigma; September 9, 2018 at 01:24 PM.

  3. #3
    Larxeneboi and proud to be DarkosOverlord's Avatar
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    Default Re: Am I the only one who hates the idea of Sora and Kairi being a couple and hopes it never happens

    I sure do hope Sora and Kairi end up as a couple as soon as possible.
    They look so good together, and their feelings towards each other have been repeatedly stated by these games of fantasy without any sort of genetic-psychological commentary behind them.

    Quote Originally Posted by NovaDragon View Post
    People not being attracted to those who they grew up with is an evolutionary safety mechanism to prevent a lack of genetic diversity.
    Kairi comes from and was born on an entirely different planet than Sora. Can't get more genetic diversity than that.
    Also yeah, wouldn't want my fictional characters that don't exist in real life to have a bad genetic pool, that would ruin this narrative universe where talking animals are a thing and treated as normal people while domestic animals are still around.

  4. #4
    Nobody MelodicEnigma's Avatar
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    Default Re: Am I the only one who hates the idea of Sora and Kairi being a couple and hopes it never happens

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkosOverlord View Post
    I sure do hope Sora and Kairi end up as a couple as soon as possible.
    They look so good together, and their feelings towards each other have been repeatedly stated by these games of fantasy without any sort of genetic-psychological commentary behind them.
    Honestly, same! Sometimes I don't understand the dislike of Sora and Kairi, the only true representation of romance in the Kingdom Hearts story, at least in a straightforward implication without certain contexts (e.g Nam and Rox). Their "romance arc" is pretty simple in its basis, and has slowly, but surely built up in the series. It does make sense, but I think people are confusing that to just being unfulfilled/unconvinced with it's presentation or progression. At a certain point, if it didn't happen, that wouldn't make any sense to the storytelling.

  5. #5
    Silver Member gosoxtim's Avatar
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    Default Re: Am I the only one who hates the idea of Sora and Kairi being a couple and hopes it never happens

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkosOverlord View Post
    I sure do hope Sora and Kairi end up as a couple as soon as possible.
    They look so good together, and their feelings towards each other have been repeatedly stated by these games of fantasy without any sort of genetic-psychological commentary behind them
    yeah it bother me that people hate the sokai relationship when we can see that there loved for each other is growing each game and people still choose to ignore it

  6. #6
    Larxeneboi and proud to be DarkosOverlord's Avatar
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    Default Re: Am I the only one who hates the idea of Sora and Kairi being a couple and hopes it never happens

    Quote Originally Posted by MelodicEnigma View Post
    Honestly, same! Sometimes I don't understand the dislike of Sora and Kairi, the only true representation of romance in the Kingdom Hearts story, at least in a straightforward implication without certain contexts (e.g Nam and Rox). Their "romance arc" is pretty simple in its basis, and has slowly, but surely built up in the series. It does make sense, but I think people are confusing that to just being unfulfilled/unconvinced with it's presentation or progression. At a certain point, if it didn't happen, that wouldn't make any sense to the storytelling.
    I don't know if NovaDragon is trolling or serious with their claims, but that's as much attention as I want to give them.
    There are many points of view about why Sora and Kairi should or should not be a couple and I'm more often than not willing to partake in a discussion about it, but "hey guys Sora and Kairi shouldn't be together because Kingdom Hearts doesn't take note of how political marriages in 16th century France worked out" is not one of them.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Am I the only one who hates the idea of Sora and Kairi being a couple and hopes it never happens

    To me, I don't have an interest in Kairi at all as a character so I rather Sora go find someone else.

    I don't mind if they worry about Roxas/Namine's feelings influencing them, that's good character drama.

  8. #8
    Nobody MelodicEnigma's Avatar
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    Default Re: Am I the only one who hates the idea of Sora and Kairi being a couple and hopes it never happens

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkosOverlord View Post
    I don't know if NovaDragon is trolling or serious with their claims, but that's as much attention as I want to give them.
    There are many points of view about why Sora and Kairi should or should not be a couple and I'm more often than not willing to partake in a discussion about it, but "hey guys Sora and Kairi shouldn't be together because Kingdom Hearts doesn't take note of how political marriages in 16th century France worked out" is not one of them.
    Agreed! I find it fascinating to talk about, just because I always wonder why some people are unconvinced by Sora/Kairi's relationship. It's like, ya'll, it's the most established one in the game. XD It's what we have, we gotta keep it strong!

  9. #9
    SENA Hates Him! The_Echo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Am I the only one who hates the idea of Sora and Kairi being a couple and hopes it never happens

    Personally, I hate any form of fan pairings.

    In Kingdom Hearts specifically, I find myself instinctively disgusted at the notion of any of the characters becoming romantically involved (Disney couples notwithstanding), because KH is about friendship. That's more than Sora saying "my friends are my power," it's about the narrative and even the universe itself wrapping around the core tenant of the bonds between people.
    Friendship is a form of love that doesn't get explored even remotely as often in fiction, despite being just as if not more important. And KH stands tall as one of the only stories that champions it. I'd rather keep it that way than muddy the waters with forced and trite romance subplots.

  10. #10
    Nobody MelodicEnigma's Avatar
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    Default Re: Am I the only one who hates the idea of Sora and Kairi being a couple and hopes it never happens

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Echo View Post
    Personally, I hate any form of fan pairings.

    In Kingdom Hearts specifically, I find myself instinctively disgusted at the notion of any of the characters becoming romantically involved (Disney couples notwithstanding), because KH is about friendship. That's more than Sora saying "my friends are my power," it's about the narrative and even the universe itself wrapping around the core tenant of the bonds between people.
    Friendship is a form of love that doesn't get explored even remotely as often in fiction, despite being just as if not more important. And KH stands tall as one of the only stories that champions it. I'd rather keep it that way than muddy the waters with forced and trite romance subplots.
    Well, I don't think that Sora and Kairi is really in itself a "fan pairing", but otherwise right there with ya! There's definitely a lot of depth in the essence of the bond between people, on any level and length. I believe that in the case of Sora and Kairi, the only well established romantically implied individuals in the story, that it's fine. The bond of friendship between the two hasn't really been altered from the romantic notions between them, this due to the notions themselves being few in showing because of how KH is written. It's not a straightforward, typical "Romance" story. So, if they retain the same ratio of that (which I believe they will) in Kingdom Hearts 3, it won't necessarily hurt anything. I personally look forward to see what they'll do.

    Now, for Naminé and Roxas, I can definitely see how that felt "forced" or shoehorned because of who they are in context of the game. The why is simple, but I can understand if it truly isn't that convincing. While I don't think it diminishes them entirely, their connection in a romantic sense isn't really that well established. Honestly, for the sake of consistency, I would like for some type of advancement or showing in that regard in KH3's conclusion. Especially, to really settle whether it is just friendship between them, or if there truly was romantic implications in how "they can be together again" and whatnot whenever Sora and Kairi are in proximity. There's a lot to consider concerning who they are and want to be.

    Anywho, I wouldn't be too fearful of KH's commentary on connections between people changing just because of romance. They've well established the impact of meaningful relations, what with many sets of trios, Sora's bonds with the Disney characters, not to mention even the friendships that are more complicated and still need to be concluded, like between Axel/Lea and Saix. Exploring the connection of romance would just simply add to the existing palette of interpersonal bonds, ONLY, if they do it well that is. Even for what has been shown, they could do a little better so that it doesn't feel like it's just there.

  11. #11
    Silver Member gosoxtim's Avatar
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    Default Re: Am I the only one who hates the idea of Sora and Kairi being a couple and hopes it never happens

    who said there need to romance subplots in a story of friendship we don't need one in kh in fact here an good example of a paring i like that doest involved romance subplots cory and topanga from boy meets worlds.

    The whole series is about friendships in fact cory and shawn was the most important friendship of the series despite the cory and topanga paring of the show was something more and it didn't take anything away form the series

  12. #12
    Nobody MelodicEnigma's Avatar
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    Default Re: Am I the only one who hates the idea of Sora and Kairi being a couple and hopes it never happens

    Quote Originally Posted by gosoxtim View Post
    who said there need to romance subplots in a story of friendship we don't need one in kh in fact here an good example of a paring i like that doest involved romance subplots cory and topanga from boy meets worlds.

    The whole series is about friendships in fact cory and shawn was the most important friendship of the series despite the cory and topanga paring of the show was something more and it didn't take anything away form the series
    Hmm, well I mean, romance plays a pretty significant role in Boy Meets World, even the romance between other characters like Shawn/Angela, Jack/Rachel, etc. I don't know how we're really defining "sub plot", but it's pretty established in that show!

    I did want to say (I know I'm replying a lot in this thread, but I love these type of convos), that I don't necessarily follow the path of treating romance as storytelling taboo, as I've seen people do often. It can be done extremely well while still being just a part of a story's overall objective, including the establishment of other types of relationships and bonds. I know there are some creations nowadays that aren't completely fulfilling, some that are even made fun of by internet goers (aka, Twilight), but, it can be done! I'm not really worried about Kingdom Hearts in the slightest being messed up by anything like that, but I can understand concerns.

  13. #13
    Silver Member gosoxtim's Avatar
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    Default Re: Am I the only one who hates the idea of Sora and Kairi being a couple and hopes it never happens

    Quote Originally Posted by MelodicEnigma View Post
    Hmm, well I mean, romance plays a pretty significant role in Boy Meets World, even the romance between other characters like Shawn/Angela, Jack/Rachel, etc. I don't know how we're really defining "sub plot", but it's pretty established in that show!
    true even so everybody that watch that show knows that main elment of boy meets world was cory and shawn friendship even before the romance started though

  14. #14
    Larxeneboi and proud to be DarkosOverlord's Avatar
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    Default Re: Am I the only one who hates the idea of Sora and Kairi being a couple and hopes it never happens

    The problem is that KH switched the focus during its run, because as I always say in KH1 romance was all but a subplot, it was how the game opened up.

    "Hey Sora! Have you heard about the legendary power of the Paopu fruit? They say, if shared with someone you really care for, it bounds you together for ever. For eternity!
    Ah, it's so romantic. I gotta try it sometimes!

    If you don't share a Paopu with Kairi, Riku'll beat you to it."

    That's why I'll never buy into the "romance would destroy KH for it's all about friendship" because the game showed me romance way before starting to prattle on about friends and bonds.

    I mean, the only sensible solution is to accept that KH handles both themes, with certain titles focusing more on one of the two. KH1 had love as one of its main propelling forces, and CoM's undertone was basically a love letter to Sora and Kairi's relationship.
    On KH II the opinion is split, for we definitely see a lot of "power of friendship" moments, but in that game we also have some of the most powerful SoraxKairi scenes.
    Then we have Days and BbS, which are clearly and explicitly trying to be powerful stories about friendship with romance being basically nonexistant.
    I think what DDD does with Sora and Riku might still be a touchy subject and would sidetrack this discourse too much, so I'll just say-- friendship or romance, whatever you like to see in it-- good for you. I ain't judging either way.

    I'd argue against either of these titles ruining its own narrative universe based only on how it handles these themes (characters interaction, that's another matter), but merely making a choice about what to show.

  15. #15
    Master Swoosh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Am I the only one who hates the idea of Sora and Kairi being a couple and hopes it never happens

    The end credits to 2.8 might imply Sokai still has somewhat of a chance.

    If it does become canon, fine. I'm not really invested in any romantic subplots in the series so I can't say I care one way or another, lol.

 

 
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