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  1. #16
    haaaaai Audo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Answers to misconceptions about the Mark of Mastery and becoming a Keyblade Master

    Quote Originally Posted by Launchpad View Post
    We've just been given no reason to care about Mastery. There is nothing distinct about it. It's a very insignificant thing.
    such is recognition from institutions that proclaim themselves to be important.

    it's all just millenia old circle jerking and the revelation that the whole institution and structure was the sole creation of one man who orchestrated an entire apocalypse in order to entrench it into the next world after only cements it.

  2. #17
    I LOST A D23 PREDICTION BET Chuman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Answers to misconceptions about the Mark of Mastery and becoming a Keyblade Master

    Quote Originally Posted by Launchpad View Post
    We've just been given no reason to care about Mastery. There is nothing distinct about it. It's a very insignificant thing.
    it literally exists only to draw another comparison to star wars.

  3. #18
    Livin' Like Larry GronoTRIGGERED's Avatar
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    Default Re: Answers to misconceptions about the Mark of Mastery and becoming a Keyblade Master

    Let me put it this way:

    Sure, Sora and Riku weren't trained properly, but whatever they did worked. Why Yen Sid felt the need to reboot their abilities when Sora could practically go god-mode in his clothes and Riku was already super powerful is absolutely beyond me. Why not just send grown-up Riku and Sora down to the dreaming realm? Why did he have to turn them into little kids again? That was never an established rule of time travel. And, sure, Yen Sid's mark of mastery exam was significantly different from Terra, Aqua's, and Ventus', but maybe it was a little too different. I get the point that Sora isn't good at holding back the darkness, and I get that that's an admirable quality in keyblade wielders. That being said... diddlying really, Yen Sid? Yen Sid is that professor that fails the student that gets a 100 on the final but doesn't do that homework in between. He clearly understands the material, just lead him to the new ability he must acquire and stop holding him down for not having to go through the master-student thing like everyone else. Terra and Aqua's test was different, and that's not the problem; if either one is to be thought of as problematic, Dream Drop Distance has to take the cake, since Birth by Sleep was the one that set the precedent of what a mark of mastery exam consisted of to begin with. I don't think it's problematic, just that one aspect of Yen Sid shrugging Sora's accomplishments off irks me like it irks most people. Yen Sid set off their mark of mastery exam much like he set off Mickey's, just on a grander scale. That's not the issue.

  4. #19
    Nobody Riruru's Avatar
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    Default Re: Answers to misconceptions about the Mark of Mastery and becoming a Keyblade Master

    Who says how the test is done must be set in stone anyways? They can change based on history. We saw how screwed up things can become if someone who does become Keyblade Master, and is trusted to take pupils and given the power to wake sleeping hearts, hold either selfish intentions or are blinded by their own ideals (ie. Master Xehanort and Eraqus). It makes sense that Yen Sid would rework the objective of the exam so then to prevent cases like that from happening in the future ever again. This isn't about Sora doing a lvl 99 double-wielding 360 no scope on Xemnas's gut. This is about how, under the pressure and manipulated like he was in CoM and DDD, Sora isn't emotionally mature enough to handle it as Riku at this point. Besides, to truly make a test fair, they wouldn't take past accomplishments into consideration otherwise the results would've too heavily favored Sora. It's like that saying that chefs use, "you're only as good as your latest dish."

    On another note though, I agree that Riku and Sora having to physically relearn how to use a Keyblade was unnecessary. There's more than one way of doing something, and one way doesn't work the best for everyone. Still, this setback is nothing compared to the awful depiction of the MoM exam in BBS, which both heavily favored Aqua before it even started if Xehanort's letters are any indication AND was totally biased on Eraqus's own beliefs that all darkness = evil. It was because the Mark of Mastery exam in BBS was awful that it ended in such a disaster in the first place. Sora failing the exam in DDD on the other hand, makes sense.

  5. #20
    Bronze Member DarkosOverlord's Avatar
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    Default Re: Answers to misconceptions about the Mark of Mastery and becoming a Keyblade Master

    This isn't about Sora doing a lvl 99 double-wielding 360 no scope on Xemnas's gut. This is about how, under the pressure and manipulated like he was in CoM and DDD, Sora isn't emotionally mature enough to handle it as Riku at this point.
    Accurate.

    Besides, to truly make a test fair, they wouldn't take past accomplishments into consideration otherwise the results would've too heavily favored Sora. It's like that saying that chefs use, "you're only as good as your latest dish."
    Even more accurate. I know some might object that past events should be taken into consideration, but they were as erratic as the DDD exam was. I doubt even Yen Sid would have a fair way to gauge one's mastery by things so specific and unique like Sora and Riku's journeys.

    On another note though, I agree that Riku and Sora having to physically relearn how to use a Keyblade was unnecessary. There's more than one way of doing something, and one way doesn't work the best for everyone.
    Alas, KH is still a game, gotta sneak that starting back at level 1 somewhere. I was fine with it, but maybe because I was spoiled by these GoW-esque exploits for a long time.

    Still, this setback is nothing compared to the awful depiction of the MoM exam in BBS
    Okay stop EVERYTHING, I just realized both the Exam and the Alpha Master are spelled MoM.
    Fascinating.

    which both heavily favored Aqua before it even started if Xehanort's letters are any indication AND was totally biased on Eraqus's own beliefs that all darkness = evil. It was because the Mark of Mastery exam in BBS was awful that it ended in such a disaster in the first place.
    Here, I am less in agreement. I do agree that Eraqus was the blindest fool around and an extremist, but Aqua deserved the Mastery nonetheless while Terra didn't.
    It's okay that Terra was manipulated and had no real reason to doubt a wise Master until the very end, but that doesn't mean he's free from any guilt.

  6. #21
    haaaaai Audo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Answers to misconceptions about the Mark of Mastery and becoming a Keyblade Master

    it's funny how so many people got upset sora wasn't named a master and like "it is so rude for yen sid to do that when sora did stuff and sora should be made master"

    what y'all should really push for is not sora being recognized by the established old white dude sitting in his ivory tower doin jack shit, but for him and his fellow queers to rise up and overthrow

    the.

    whole.

    thing.

  7. #22
    Nobody Riruru's Avatar
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    Default Re: Answers to misconceptions about the Mark of Mastery and becoming a Keyblade Master

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkosOverlord View Post
    Here, I am less in agreement. I do agree that Eraqus was the blindest fool around and an extremist, but Aqua deserved the Mastery nonetheless while Terra didn't.
    It's okay that Terra was manipulated and had no real reason to doubt a wise Master until the very end, but that doesn't mean he's free from any guilt.
    Well hey, I never said I disagreed with the results either. What I disagree with and what I think led to the disaster in BBS was how it was done. Eraqus went about it the wrong way and happened to luck out that Aqua really did end up being suited to being a master while Terra wasn't quite yet. If we compare it to how the Mark of Mastery was done in DDD, you can tell that Sora learned a lot from his experience despite not passing, and wouldn't just abandon all his friends to go on an emo conquest for darkness. Yen Sid saw the entire thing through, and didn't just deem Riku or Sora as failures even though they both either fell into or wielded darkness at some point during the test.

    Quote Originally Posted by Audo View Post
    what y'all should really push for is not sora being recognized by the established old white dude sitting in his ivory tower doin jack shit, but for him and his fellow queers to rise up and overthrow

    the.

    whole.

    thing.
    I vote Yoshiya "Rainbow Joshua" Kiryu as our president.

  8. #23
    Keyblade Master kirabook's Avatar
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    Default Re: Answers to misconceptions about the Mark of Mastery and becoming a Keyblade Master

    I guess, just for funsies, I'll explain my headcanons of what the Mark of Mastery is for and how you get it and blah blah blah. At this point, who can say what is canon or not in what I'm about to say, it's all speculation.

    The Mark of Mastery is not much of anything except a formality and it grants new Master permissions and knowledge they wouldn't get otherwise.

    Since this was never delved deep into in Birth by Sleep, we can't say exactly what special info or permissions a Master might have other than a few I can speculate:

    • You are granted special knowledge about the history of the Keyblade and wielders (knowledge that Aqua, the only master we've followed closely, did not get the opportunity to explore?)
    • If you are chosen as successor, you learn very important things like how to protect places such as Land of Departure (that may have a special significance we do not yet know of)
    • You are allowed to grant new wielders the ability to one day wield a keyblade if they are deemed worthy (Xehanort did technically name Terra a Master. The only one who didn't pass on anything was Ven who was certainly not named Master in any way... so far)


    As for how you can become a Master, I'm pretty sure it's stated that the Master gets to decide how their pupils can gain the title. It's totally up to them on what absurd trials they put their students through. It could be as easy as just saying, "Congrats lad, you're a Master now!" or even making them go through a hot dog contest and the biggest eater wins.

    In Eraqus's case, his decision on whether his pupils would become Master's or not is if they didn't show signs of darkness, using darkness, or struggling with darkness. Terra failed that test. I'm not saying Eraqus is absolutely right though, Eraqus is the one that made Terra so insecure about his darkness in the first place. Instead of telling Terra everyone has darkness and helped him find a way to balance it out or control it, he insisted Terra just push it down and pretend it didn't exist.

    That said, Terra did fail Eraqus's test, and as we saw, Terra did have problems with his darkness with unfortunately lead to the bad guy manipulating him into losing his own body.

    This parallels greatly with Yen Sid's test with Sora and Riku. Yen Sid's only requirement was for them to return safely and learn a new power and they would be granted the title of Master. His test was seemingly even easier to pass than Eraqus's. Sadly, due to Xehanort, Sora did not return safely at all. It's not Sora's fault at all, but he didn't meet the requirements AND Yen Sid said his grasp on the power he set out to learn was sorely lacking.

    So, to become a Master you must:
    • Have a steady heart and have confidence in your own balance (mostly). By the time DDD ended, Riku had battled it out with himself one last time and is confident in his balance of light and dark. Aqua is very confident in her balance of light and dark and even if she faltered once, she still wasn't anywhere near actually falling into darkness.
    • Pass the specific test each Master puts forth. It's up to them to decide. If they hate you, maybe you'll never pass despite having proven yourself countless times or being the strongest person ever


    And lastly, for the tests itself, specifically the one in DDD. What happened in DDD was a very special test. Yen Sid was trying to come up with a way to surprise Xehanort, so he set Sora and Riku off on the down-low trying to help them gain a new unexpected power that would turn the tides. Unfortunately, Mr. Mad Man Xehanort always has a plan and seems to be 5 steps ahead of Yen Sid somehow.

    I think what Yen Sid did was fine. Some people roll their eyes at Sora and Riku starting over, but I think it was a clever way to say, "Hey, you were doing fine before, but you can be even better if you review the basics properly." or even "Hey, I know your techniques are cool and all, but if you learn it in this special way from the beginning, all your techniques will have a new flavor to them, making them even better."

    Technically Sora lost all his strength, but we saw that he at least retained some basic stuff like magic and even flowmotion (and new stuff that is clearly a new take on shotlocks). His training (even though he failed the test and was stripped of most everything) still added a new 'flavor' to his existing abilities thanks to him starting over in DDD. That's how I look at it anyway.

    To summarize, the Mark of Mastery and becoming a Master is like... driving licenses. Every keyblade wielder can have a license, and some, like Sora, are 100x better than all the other wielders. BUTTTTT.... if Sora can't pass the written exam to get a commercial license, then Sora's can't drive a big rig across the country to deliver cookies to a bakery no matter how good a driver he is. Not every test is based on your skill.

    (fyi, I almost failed the written exam to my normal driving test. and I hit the curb on the actual driving test. But I still have a license so. I don't think they care about keeping terrible drivers off the road. Hahaha)

  9. #24
    Nobody
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    Default Re: Answers to misconceptions about the Mark of Mastery and becoming a Keyblade Master

    I mean Yen Sid is giving Sora another MoM test but this time with the help of Goofy and Donald instead of Dream Eaters. This time the way to pass is to get all the strength he lost during the first test or at least that's how I saw it during 2.9

  10. #25
    breaktheice16's Avatar
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    Default Re: Answers to misconceptions about the Mark of Mastery and becoming a Keyblade Master

    Well it was already indicated that Sora and Riku's exam had to be rushed because they needed to be masters to battle Xehanort. And their exam was a lot more complicated than just combat training and balance of power like Terra and Aqua's exam.

    Plus the experience Sora and Riku gained as Keyblade wielders was colossal compared to Terra and Aqua. Terra and Aqua were confined to one world their entire lives and trained under Eraqus. Sora and Riku traveled to multiple worlds, battled Heartless and Nobodies, defeated strong figures who were actual threats to the realm of light. They were exposed to a lot more than Aqua and Terra were, so it makes sense for them to be able to take their exam so soon after becoming Keyblade wielders.

  11. #26
    Nobody Riruru's Avatar
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    Default Re: Answers to misconceptions about the Mark of Mastery and becoming a Keyblade Master

    I might've interpreted this or even remembered it incorrectly, but wasn't it stated in BBS that Keyblade Masters have the ability to lock worlds while regular Keyblade Users don't? I recall that Eraqus said that the predecessors of Keyblade Masters were the ones to devise the trick and pass it down.

  12. #27
    haaaaai Audo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Answers to misconceptions about the Mark of Mastery and becoming a Keyblade Master

    Quote Originally Posted by Riruru View Post
    I might've interpreted this or even remembered it incorrectly, but wasn't it stated in BBS that Keyblade Masters have the ability to lock worlds while regular Keyblade Users don't? I recall that Eraqus said that the predecessors of Keyblade Masters were the ones to devise the trick and pass it down.
    no that was specifically about being able to turn LoD into CO.

  13. #28
    Bronze Member DarkosOverlord's Avatar
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    Default Re: Answers to misconceptions about the Mark of Mastery and becoming a Keyblade Master

    Eraqus does unlock the Lanes Between, but Sora can do the same, so I guess everyone has the power to do it and Masters are the ones with the authority to do it (obviously Yen Sid decided to screw the rules while dealing with the Organization)

  14. #29
    Nobody Riruru's Avatar
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    Default Re: Answers to misconceptions about the Mark of Mastery and becoming a Keyblade Master

    Was Land of Departure the only world that could do that though? I mean, it could be that any world can be locked away, or that there are other worlds out there like LoD which must be protected by Keyblade Masters.

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkosOverlord View Post
    Eraqus does unlock the Lanes Between, but Sora can do the same, so I guess everyone has the power to do it and Masters are the ones with the authority to do it (obviously Yen Sid decided to screw the rules while dealing with the Organization)
    I was more referring to specifically being able to lock a world away so it's inaccessible like the Land of Departure. Ahh, I wish they'd explain the keyblade more instead of just using it as an almighty weapon that magically works depending on the context...

  15. #30
    All you need to know. Genocide's Avatar
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    Default Re: Answers to misconceptions about the Mark of Mastery and becoming a Keyblade Master

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuman View Post
    sora is an ordinary kid with no formal training
    I agree with everything you said except this. Maybe you skipped the fights, but all the kids trained to fight. Play fighting gave him the background necessary to start his journey, and he self taught after that. They look at his self taught style as inferior, but at the height of it all, he DID take down a significant portion of the Organization. I bet Yen Sid won't say nothing, if he caught a triangle to the face.

 

 
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