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  1. #1
    ᴋɪɴɢᴘɪɴ ᴏғ sᴛᴇᴇʟ Narukami's Avatar
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    Default How to Make the Keyblade More Useful

    Do you despise having to pause the game to change keyblades? Do you feel that keyblade combat is lacking some sort of strategy? If you answered "YES" to either of the questions, you'll probably appreciate these notions.

    For a series that is centered around the powers of the keyblade, Kingdom Hearts seems to place little importance on them when it comes to combat. Basically, players just equip whichever one has the highest attack for where you currently are in the storyline and hack 'n slash their way through hordes of enemies... and there's nothing wrong with that, I have just always desired something more. Now, imagine a Kingdom Hearts game where, mid-battle, you can switch keyblades to best fit your current situation in battle. And instead of getting a strength and magic boost with each new keyblade you receive, add an elemental affinity, status effect or drastic change in reach to your roster of Heartless-slaying weapons. Not only would this make battles more challenging, but it let you ensure that you get proper use out of each and every keyblade.

    Need to kill a flaming baddie?

    - Swap to Diamond Dust and chill it out!

    One of those winged fiends playing with your jumping skills?
    - Performing a quick switch to Fenrir should teach it a lesson!

    It would also open up the door for new and more interesting enemies. Remember the White Mushrooms from the original Kingdom Hearts? Now imagine a boss that you have to fight like that, where only certain elements work at certain times, and you have to constantly change your keyblade to adapt to it. Some people may find this idea a little bit irritating, as it would demand more attention to detail while fighting, but I think it would be that extra spice that combat in the series really needs.

       

  2. #2
    KHI Site Staff Chaser's Avatar
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    Default Re: How to Make the Keyblade More Useful

    It would be nice if they changed it up so it's not just "This keyblade increases your strength and magic more than that keyblade".
    KH II was a step in the right direction, each keyblade had it's own unique skill which either gave you bonuses, or took something away from you.
    They should expand on this. Make a keyblade that has a lightning finish. Make a keyblade that gives you an extra magic bar (crap examples I know).

    And I would be cool if you could map maybe 4 to the directional arrows, so just a quick press would change your keyblade to a different one. Though, this would be hard to do if the command menu stays.

    Brilliant idea though! I love it.

  3. #3
    Flesh by mother, soul by father Ruran's Avatar
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    Default Re: How to Make the Keyblade More Useful

    *touches Re:Coded inappropriately*

    The idea of evolving Keyblades has been around for a while and Re:Coded was on par with the idea. They need to do something similar in future games. But I'm digressing, being able to change Keyblades on a whim s an interesting concept, especially if it forces the enemies to be more unique in that they need certain attacks to take care of them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Narukami View Post
    It would also open up the door for new and more interesting enemies. Remember the White Mushrooms from the original Kingdom Hearts? Now imagine a boss that you have to fight like that, where only certain elements work at certain times, and you have to constantly change your keyblade to adapt to it. Some people may find this idea a little bit irritating, as it would demand more attention to detail while fighting, but I think it would be that extra spice that combat in the series really needs.
    Like the Phantom! 8D

  4. #4
    Bronze Member gamerobber7's Avatar
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    Default Re: How to Make the Keyblade More Useful

    Quote Originally Posted by Narukami View Post
    It would also open up the door for new and more interesting enemies. Remember the White Mushrooms from the original Kingdom Hearts? Now imagine a boss that you have to fight like that, where only certain elements work at certain times, and you have to constantly change your keyblade to adapt to it. Some people may find this idea a little bit irritating, as it would demand more attention to detail while fighting, but I think it would be that extra spice that combat in the series really needs.
    What about the Phantom in KH1? lol But I do agree that a more interactive Keyblade system would be nice.
    Quote Originally Posted by King Chaser View Post
    It would be nice if they changed it up so it's not just "This keyblade increases your strength and magic more than that keyblade".
    KH II was a step in the right direction, each keyblade had it's own unique skill which either gave you bonuses, or took something away from you.
    They should expand on this. Make a keyblade that has a lightning finish. Make a keyblade that gives you an extra magic bar (crap examples I know).

    And I would be cool if you could map maybe 4 to the directional arrows, so just a quick press would change your keyblade to a different one. Though, this would be hard to do if the command menu stays.

    Brilliant idea though! I love it.
    They could do something like in Assassin's Creed where you could hold L2 or R2 and bring up a weapon wheel to choose your weapon mid battle.

  5. #5
    SENA Hates Him! The_Echo's Avatar
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    Default Re: How to Make the Keyblade More Useful

    I think swapping Keys mid-battle could... be a little clunky? Or counterproductive to the flow of battle. Depends how it would be implemented.

    I would like for Keyblades to feel less like "well this one's got an attack stat of 10. Guess I never need the other ones!" As Chaser said, KHII was a step in the right direction. And Re:coded even more so with its overclocking mechanic.

    A hybrid of the stats and abilities from II and the added-effects/evolution of coded​ would really serve the combat well.

  6. #6
    KHI Site Staff Master Spockanort's Avatar
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    Default Re: How to Make the Keyblade More Useful

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Echo View Post
    I think swapping Keys mid-battle could... be a little clunky? Or counterproductive to the flow of battle. Depends how it would be implemented.
    I doubt it'd be clunky if it was assigned to a L2/R2 + D-Pad command and flowed well into combat, it wouldn't be any different from any other combat system that has been implemented into the series. A keychain to each direction, and as you fight you can push the trigger and desired button on the D-Pad and the Sora will do some flip, change the keychain on the end of the Keyblade, and you continue fighting. It can happen in under a few seconds without disturbing the flow of battle at all.

    You are right that KHII and Re:coded were a step in the right direction, but we haven't seen much of that progress since those two games. BBS was concentrated on the command system, and KH3D with the Dream Eaters.

    Narukami wants KH3 to bring the Keyblade's functionality advancement into the forefront now that we've explored all of these other kinds of systems. Having an affinity/weakness thing added into enemies and Keyblades would really take things back to the KH1/CoM days where you had to use opposing elements on enemies to fight them or they healed if you hit them with their normal attack. It'd add an element of strategy that is definitely missing in normal combat.

  7. #7
    Heartless Zanarkand16's Avatar
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    Default Re: How to Make the Keyblade More Useful

    I think this is an awesome idea! I would love the strategy it would add to the combat. I love the current battle system, but just making the combat a little less simplistic would make all the difference in the world.

  8. #8
    The Tin Man Professor Ven's Avatar
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    Default Re: How to Make the Keyblade More Useful

    Or you could do something different, like taking the Keyblade, and as you use it, you gain experience. With that experience, you can add beneficial traits to it, and with every x amount of benefits, you have to make a decision on a negative trait. The Keyblade, as you level/add traits, will morph and change depending on which ones, and you could just use the Keychains acquired as changing its color/look if desired.

    TL;DR The Keyblade in its basic form (whatever you happen to have that basic form set to as - Kingdom Key, for instance) would morph/change based on decisions made by the Player, reflecting their "Heart."




    Because changing Keyblades in mid-combat doesn't really make it more fluid, it just makes it clunky as hell.
    Last edited by Professor Ven; May 18, 2013 at 07:49 AM.

  9. #9
    ✧ G L A M A Z O N ✧ Rydgea's Avatar
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    Default Re: How to Make the Keyblade More Useful

    Gosh, I would love to be able to swap out keychains at will, and I don't think this is farfetched at all. Like running around and scrolling through commands using D-Pad, analog control sticks, or L and R buttons, circulating for the appropriate blade could be easy. Maybe a little sub menu could be present, at least while you're cycling and then disappear afterwards.

  10. #10
    AGITO
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    Default Re: How to Make the Keyblade More Useful

    KINGDOM HEARTS II was DEFINITELY a step in the right direction when it came to keyblade variety. Take for example the keychain you get after clearing Pooh's world, that raises the enemy item drop rate. Even though it was weak, it was great to use to farm for ingredients for recipes.

  11. #11
    SENA Hates Him! The_Echo's Avatar
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    Default Re: How to Make the Keyblade More Useful

    Quote Originally Posted by lycorismoon29 View Post
    I doubt it'd be clunky if it was assigned to a L2/R2 + D-Pad command and flowed well into combat, it wouldn't be any different from any other combat system that has been implemented into the series. A keychain to each direction, and as you fight you can push the trigger and desired button on the D-Pad and the Sora will do some flip, change the keychain on the end of the Keyblade, and you continue fighting. It can happen in under a few seconds without disturbing the flow of battle at all.
    See, the D-pad is already used for the Command Menu and Command Deck. If neither of those were present for the next game... well. That would be a problem.

    Setting it to L2/R2 would just have you scrolling through Keys in the late game. Which is clunky. And if it were a weapon-wheel a la Dishonored​ or something similar, that would break the flow of battle.
    Quote Originally Posted by Professor Ven View Post
    Or you could do something different, like taking the Keyblade, and as you use it, you gain experience. With that experience, you can add beneficial traits to it, and with every x amount of benefits, you have to make a decision on a negative trait. The Keyblade, as you level/add traits, will morph and change depending on which ones, and you could just use the Keychains acquired as changing its color/look if desired.
    I like this idea. It feels like an appropriate evolution to the ways Keyblades are implemented as equipment.

    Though, I'm not the hugest fan of customized designs. I feel like that would result in more uninspired Keys like we saw in Days. (Many of the designs, at least to me, felt very lackluster and basic.)

  12. #12
    KHI Site Staff Master Spockanort's Avatar
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    Default Re: How to Make the Keyblade More Useful

    I do not see how that is clunky. They can easily assign command deck cycling to the L1+L2 buttons because there is no way anybody can cycle through the command deck with the PS3 controller D-Pad without having to take your hand off the left directional stick, anyways, so it is obviously going to be changed in the future (definitely in BBS and if we get the command deck in KH3, it would be like that there too.) And I'm saying you have to press and hold L2 or R2 before using the D-Pad to choose a Keyblade, and you only get to choose from four of them.

    It isn't like games don't already have a system like this already. In KH3D you could switch out Dream Eaters in an instant by using the touch screen which required taking your eyes off the top screen and stopping your attacks and it didn't disturb the flow of battle (at least not to me), in other games you can switch between weapons instantly in the middle of battle and it is NOT clunky.

    I don't like the idea of deep Keyblade customization when you already have huge customization for each character. Upgrading a Keyblade by using points then you max it out would be fine, but having to select traits and whatnot is getting into something that will over-complicate things and possibly overpower them and I don't think it'd really make sense to be able to give say...a Keyblade like Sweet Stack physical traits when it is composed of ice cream, or Frolic Flame water traits even though it is a fire-based weapon. And if the game brings back synthesis, that's just another system we'd have to deal with.

    Also with customization, you could probably stick with one Keyblade the entire game that you've suped up and we'd be back at the problem of never looking back at your old Keyblades.

    The idea of weaknesses/strengths that Narukami is suggesting would be to e.g. have a fire-based keyblade be strong against plant-like enemies, weak against water-based ones (instead of doing the base attack power of say 5, you'd be hitting at 2 or something) and heal fire-type/attacks would be ineffective. Or a light based keyblade that is effective against non-elemental heartless, but weak against say non-heartless enemies. (bad example xD) This is the level of strategy that would come out of a Keyblade with that kind of system, something that can be cheated when using a customization system.

    The idea is to make it so you use all of your Keyblades, even up until the end of the game rather than sticking with the strongest Keyblade you have at the moment.
    Last edited by The Mod Spockanort; May 18, 2013 at 06:48 PM.

  13. #13
    Heartless Zanarkand16's Avatar
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    Default Re: How to Make the Keyblade More Useful

    Quote Originally Posted by lycorismoon29 View Post
    I do not see how that is clunky. They can easily assign command deck cycling to the L1+L2 buttons because there is no way anybody can cycle through the command deck with the PS3 controller D-Pad without having to take your hand off the left directional stick, anyways, so it is obviously going to be changed in the future (definitely in BBS and if we get the command deck in KH3, it would be like that there too.) And I'm saying you have to press and hold L2 or R2 before using the D-Pad to choose a Keyblade, and you only get to choose from four of them.

    It isn't like games don't already have a system like this already. In KH3D you could switch out Dream Eaters in an instant by using the touch screen which required taking your eyes off the top screen and stopping your attacks and it didn't disturb the flow of battle (at least not to me), in other games you can switch between weapons instantly in the middle of battle and it is NOT clunky.

    I don't like the idea of deep Keyblade customization when you already have huge customization for each character. Upgrading a Keyblade by using points then you max it out would be fine, but having to select traits and whatnot is getting into something that will over-complicate things and possibly overpower them and I don't think it'd really make sense to be able to give say...a Keyblade like Sweet Stack physical traits when it is composed of ice cream, or Frolic Flame water traits even though it is a fire-based weapon. And if the game brings back synthesis, that's just another system we'd have to deal with.

    Also with customization, you could probably stick with one Keyblade the entire game that you've suped up and we'd be back at the problem of never looking back at your old Keyblades.

    The idea of weaknesses/strengths that Narukami is suggesting would be to e.g. have a fire-based keyblade be strong against plant-like enemies, weak against water-based ones (instead of doing the base attack power of say 5, you'd be hitting at 2 or something) and heal fire-type/attacks would be ineffective. Or a light based keyblade that is effective against non-elemental heartless, but weak against say non-heartless enemies. (bad example xD) This is the level of strategy that would come out of a Keyblade with that kind of system, something that can be cheated when using a customization system.

    The idea is to make it so you use all of your Keyblades, even up until the end of the game rather than sticking with the strongest Keyblade you have at the moment.
    I completely agree. I don't think it would be clunky at all. I really like your explanation of it all.

  14. #14
    The Guiding Key Zephyr's Avatar
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    Default Re: How to Make the Keyblade More Useful

    I had a somewhat similar idea when thinking about Chain of Memories's battle system. I personally wanted to see the Keyblade change its appearance midway in battle depending what card you had next. CoM had a variety of stats for the Keyblades like Slash, Thrust, Finisher, Element, Speed, etc.

  15. #15
    sans 911 Luap's Avatar
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    Default Re: How to Make the Keyblade More Useful

    I like the idea of changing keyblades mid-combat, but I do not want a weapon wheel that freezes the game while you are switching, which many games do. On this thought though, in KH1 and 2 we had the Shortcut menu but with Commands being used the Shortcut function isn't a menu anymore. Switching could work exactly like the Shortcut menu, except be mapped to R2/L2+D-Pad instead of the face buttons so that all the actions you can do on them (attack, jump, dodge roll, command) are still available while switching, keeping the flow of combat.

 

 
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