Final Fantasy : The Spirits Within

[New2Ya]

Originally Posted by Tobuoi

Lulz, I didn't think that such a mild "debate" warranted nastiness--especially between two mods, but okay.

I'm no mod.

Anyways, New2Ya, I don't know much about Dragon Quest, but judging by the looks of it, I'm gonna go ahead and guess that it's made by a different team (within Square Enix) than Final Fantasy...and not to mention, my main point was that "Final Fantasy" is simply a name. And it's a big name for the company, so it was smart advertising, from a tactical standpoint.

Squaresoft and Enix joined up in the early years of 2000. Where Squaresoft had Final Fantasy as its biggest franchise, Enix had Dragon Quest.

Typical Dragon Quest:
http://jessica.x0.com/picture/a01.jpg

Typical Final Fantasy:
http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/1846/49111rv3.jpg

Those slimes in Dragon Quest were the very first monsters in the franchise. They are a standard for Dragon Quest. See that Slime, and you know it will have some connection with Dragon Quest.

Chocobo is the same story, it's an element in Final Fantasy that is always used.

Except for Spirits Within. It didn't use the standard Final Fantasy elements, the core elements. Without it, it's not truly Final Fantasy. Not to me.

You see, as it wasnt Final Fantasy in the sense that it used no core element AT ALL, (Cid was Sid for crying out loud...) it wasnt worthy of the name Final Fantasy. That's why so many people like me didnt like the movie.

Then comes the fact that the whole movie was dark and gloomy, whereas FF titles always have different types of environments... I only got to see nice scenery in the last scene...

Hypocrisy train rolling into the station, woo-woooo.

Do you have your ticket, New2ya?

I'm afraid you're gonna miss the mod-of-the-day train.

[TheMuffinMan]

Originally Posted by New2Ya

I'm afraid you're gonna miss the mod-of-the-day train.

Sucks to be me, then, I like that train, they have comfy seats.

[obbsessed fan]

You totally missed my point in my post, I was pointing out similarites to other final fantasy's to show that it can called FF because of SIMILAR Elements to the stories they made (deffenatly) was romance in FF9 and ten)

I dont know about anyone else, But I dont play final fantasy for the ****ing chobocobos or moogles. I play it for the SEPRATE, totally different storys each one has.
,
KH had moogals, Starships that were tonberrys and chobocobos , heck even FF characters, but it wasn't a FF.
Your point turns invalid

Why does every thread turn into a ****ing argument/battle its more gay than sora =P

[New2Ya]

Originally Posted by obbsessed fan

You totally missed my point in my post, I was pointing out similarites to other final fantasy's to show that it can called FF because of SIMILAR Elements to the stories they made (deffenatly) was romance in FF9 and ten)

And apparently you dont see what Final Fantasy makes it what it is.

Its not about rehashing the same ***ing stories. We can leave that to Nomura, thank you very much.

Final Fantasy is unique because of the core elements. I will not say them again and again, I think you got my point.

I dont know about anyone else, But I dont play final fantasy for the ****ing chobocobos or moogles. I play it for the SEPRATE, totally different storys each one has.

Apparently you dont, because you claim a FF is a true FF when it has the same rehashed stories.

Spirits Within was a combination of older and future FF stories.

It did not have any FF mascots in it.

KH had moogals, Starships that were tonberrys and chobocobos , heck even FF characters, but it wasn't a FF.
Your point turns invalid

My points dont turn invalid, cuz Kingdom Hearts was a collaboration of Disney and Final Fantasy. My point actually turns more valid.

Where Disney's elements were the Donald/Goofy/Mickey and Disney stories, Final Fantasy was the obvious characters and the core elements LIKE tonberry and chocobo. THAT was the FF touch that Kingdom Hearts had. That is how players could recognize KH as a title with FF elements.

There you have it. Without those elements, KH would have just been Disney with FF characters. Nomura made it more FF by adding the core elements of Final Fantasy.

Why does every thread turn into a ****ing argument/battle its more gay than sora =P

Because sometimes people disagree and want to explain why they disagree.

I see your point, but to me its complete bull, because Final Fantasy is not about romantic stories and apocolypses. Yes, many FFs share those stories, but what makes FF unique is its mascots.

Just like Spiderman has Goblin. Just like Batman has the Joker. Just like Terminator has evil robots. Just like Narnia has a lion. Just like LOTR has a ring. Just like LOST has an island. Just like X-Men has wolverine. Etc etc etc.

It's distinctive elements that make them what they are. It's these things that seperate them from other franchises.

If FF was just about the stories told, just the name would be recognizable. Thankfully, we can discover a game or movie as Final Fantasy BECAUSE of the elements that are used.

If this doesnt explain it enough for you, I lost hope...

[*~NeoAdamus~*]

If the little girl in SW, who was another spirit to Gaia, had a moogle doll then that would nullify New2Ya's point, but he's right, no element of FF is even traced in the movie.

when you see a mushroom with a smiley face you know its from mario

or a golden ring, or chao which would be related to sonic

and so much more.

Games pretty much identify themselves through their elements, kind of like signatures, and when one game doesnt share its original elements compared to its others, ppl take a turn from it

[obbsessed fan]

Originally Posted by New2Ya

And apparently you dont see what Final Fantasy makes it what it is.

Its not about rehashing the same ***ing stories. We can leave that to Nomura, thank you very much.

Final Fantasy is unique because of the core elements. I will not say them again and again, I think you got my point.

Apparently you dont, because you claim a FF is a true FF when it has the same rehashed stories.

Spirits Within was a combination of older and future FF stories.

It did not have any FF mascots in it.


My points dont turn invalid, cuz Kingdom Hearts was a collaboration of Disney and Final Fantasy. My point actually turns more valid.

Where Disney's elements were the Donald/Goofy/Mickey and Disney stories, Final Fantasy was the obvious characters and the core elements LIKE tonberry and chocobo. THAT was the FF touch that Kingdom Hearts had. That is how players could recognize KH as a title with FF elements.

There you have it. Without those elements, KH would have just been Disney with FF characters. Nomura made it more FF by adding the core elements of Final Fantasy.


Because sometimes people disagree and want to explain why they disagree.

I see your point, but to me its complete bull, because Final Fantasy is not about romantic stories and apocolypses. Yes, many FFs share those stories, but what makes FF unique is its mascots.

Just like Spiderman has Goblin. Just like Batman has the Joker. Just like Terminator has evil robots. Just like Narnia has a lion. Just like LOTR has a ring. Just like LOST has an island. Just like X-Men has wolverine. Etc etc etc.

It's distinctive elements that make them what they are. It's these things that seperate them from other franchises.

If FF was just about the stories told, just the name would be recognizable. Thankfully, we can discover a game or movie as Final Fantasy BECAUSE of the elements that are used.

If this doesnt explain it enough for you, I lost hope...

Naw naw I get what your saying, And I see your side now, But I'd just like to say I wasn't claiming those were the core elements in the game, I was just stateing some similar things that I found similar in my opinion, that appeared in some various FF's, not all in the same one mind you, that had some likeness in the movie, to help it claim its FF title. I guess I didn't defend it that well. I also just listed some of its strong points now that I look back on it, and about the KH thing, I was just saying that it had the mascots you said were only hold of FF, were in a different game, stating that it wasn't solely in FF, but I withdraw my comment there if you'll allow it, cause it does prove it more.

But, my final statement is....

SW kicked ass for me =D

[Karate]

Originally Posted by D Athier

Okay, I'm going to stir up a storm here, but uh...

Spirits Within > Advent Children.

Now, how could this be? How could a movie with pretty boy Cloud and gang not be better than an original piece that had no direct connection to any Final Fantasy game? I'm not trying to just blatantly troll here. There's an honestly very good reason as to why this is. And I'll list them off.

• But The Spirits Within didn't connect at all with any Final Fantasy game!

  Untrue. The Spirits Within was an attempt by Square-Enix to create a movie that would be enjoyed by not just fans, but your general movie going public. The majority of the movie going crowd are not gamers. So, this means that creating a movie based on one of the games would mean completely alienating a huge chunk of their demographic. At the same time however, they still wanted to create a movie that their fans would enjoy. Amazingly enough, The Spirits Within has more connections to any FF game, ( especially FFVII, ironically, ) than Advent Children did.
  
  The Asteroid of the destroyed Alien planet.

  This could be likened to Jenova from VII. Jenova was also carried on a asteroid, much like how the Alien Spirits were carried aboard their Asteroid.
  

  Gaia, Spirit Energy.

  Can anybody say the Life Stream? Gaia is pretty much the lifeblood of the planet, also damn similiar to FFVII. At the same time, the Military in Spirits Within could be likened to Shinra. They use Spirit Energy as a source of energy and power. Much like how Shinra used the Life Stream to produce Mako.
  

  Zeus Cannon

  Sister Ray of FFVII fame. 'nuff said.
  

  Where the shit is Cid?

  Doctor Sid. Unconvential spelling of the name, but it's exactly the same.
  

• Dude, you lie! Aye Cee was teh bestest ting eva

  This is also untrue. Advent Children is a medicore film. The only people who say otherwise are Final Fantasy fanboys. Esspecially the rather annoying hardcore FFVII fans. They enjoyed it because they finallly got to see fan favorite Cloud and gang move around and speak for the first time ever.
  
  Now, don't get me wrong. I did enjoy Advent Children. But that was because it was fanservice. It was made to pander to the fans. On all other fronts, Advent Children was bad to mediocre. You had lackluster voice acting, horrendesly overcomplicated and confusing plot and not to mention obvious money greedy attempts of fanservice.
  
  The Spirits Within however, was new and original. It was still fanservice on some level, but not on the same level as Advent Children was. It featured new characters in a new, more sci-fi enviroment, with an entirely new, but still connected plot.
  
  Now, The Spirits Within was not a great movie, but it's also not a bad film in it's own right. I'd place it in the decent section. But this alone is why Advent Children is an inferior film.
  

I have SO MUCH more to say on this subject, but I unfortunatly have to run off and do some quick chores. I'll come back to this and add to this entire list just for you.

oh, and inb4 fanboys.

I'm no FF fanboy. TSW blew ass and you know it. AC was mediocre, but was still better than that atrocity.

[Donnie Yen]

Originally Posted by Neo Ragnarok

I'm absolutely sick and tired of the Final Fantasy VII hate from everyone who plays Final Fantasy games. Don't like the game? Get the hell over it. .

Don't like people hating a game? Get the hell over it.

Anyways, Spirits Within was an awesome movie. So disappointing it was such a bomb in the box office because it was such a technological landmark and had a great story. Thing is, it should've never carried the FINAL FANTASY title. To me, it was just another Sci-fi movie, and that's what made me enjoy it. I wasnt sitting down thinking, "Ooooh, I wonder when they're gonna start riding chocobos! I wonder which summons they'll show!" No, I was just enjoying the movie as a different universe of its own. I dont see it as a FINAL FANTASY, but as a really good movie that stupid fanboys fail to recognize it as so.

[Stavvy]

Normally, I'd say that I enjoyed both films, but. . .yeah. . .

I've seen AC more, but that's because my copy of TSW is at my friend's house. . .

TSW had a better story, better visuals, and voice acting. The only thing that I find better in AC would be the fights, and the victory themesong.

I even cared a bit for the characters in TSW, (which is why the ending gave me mixed feelings). Unlike AC, where I knew that no one would die (angry fanboys would bitch), and I've seen them so many times that I didn't really care. . .

[InfiniteTwilight]

IMO, both movies were pretty good, but I liked FFAC better.

Though when I did watch Spirits Within, I did get some deja vu feeling with the plot being close to FF7 with the whole meteor, Gaia, etc.

[Twilight12]

I'm not here to pick either side, but just using what i can from watching you guys fight and what i know.


For SW, i have to agree with what Muffins said.

I liked this movie.

A lot.

Fags don't like it because it wasn't specifically themed after any FF in particular, but they fail to realize that the movie was treated just as any new entry in the series is: it's a completely new universe with new characters.

Everything he said was true. This was a NEW Final Fantasy story, not a mixture of every other game together. Just because you "New2ya" say it doesn't fit YOUR requirements doesn't mean its not Final Fantasy worthy. this statement of yours

Originally Posted by 2New2ya

Final Fantasy is not lifestream (did FFVIII have that?), Final Fantasy is not romance (did FFXII have that really?), Final Fantasy is not beings from another planet turning into fiends (since when does FFX stand for the standard FF?), Final Fantasy is not dream seeing (only some had that), Final Fantasy is not apocolypse (FFXII had no apocolypse...),

was seriously BS.

Not every Final Fantasy game has to have the same things. By saying that one game didn't have this, and one game having that and what not doesn't mean shit and doesn't give you evidence to back uo your statement. So what if SOME stories have different things? I think most FF games are set in SEPERATE universes/worlds, so its only natural for them to have different "CORE" elements for each one. The beauty in SW is that it IS different while having some elements that FF games have. Its different, yet unique at the same time. The movie WASN'T made for you. So it didn't tickle your fancy, BIG DEAL, move on and stop bashing on everyone.

Last thing ima say about your statement is this, and i'm gonna bring back a statement you said, because you clearly were oblivious to the WHOLE purpose of this thread.

Final Fantasy is not lifestream (did FFVIII have that?)

The only REASON they brought this up was because D Athier brought up the fact that HE believed SW was more intuned with FFVII than AC itself. Now whether I believe in that statement is not the problem, the problem is you assumming that it has to be in every other game ( VII ).

Srsly. Whats the point of making new games if they all consist the same thing? Maybe, once you understand that FF is not a continuation like lets say the Sonic series, and that FF is a SERIES of different games for the most part ( excluding FF7 Compliations and X-2), and do indeed hold some relationship together. Now i know you'll probably be like " Well thats what im saying, that SW doesn't hold any connections with the FF World, what i have to say to you is that, Yes, they DO need to have some known elements included in thier series of games, but NOT those that you suggested. Hell, alot of the games don't have a lot of things, but the unique thing about that, is infact that thats what makes the individual games so fun to play with. Live a little, get use to surprises and unfamiliar environment, or in your case unfamiliar games. Love the series as a whole and for what they bring to the table. I'm not saying you have to like each and everyone of the games, but don't be oblivious to the uniqueness of each and every game/movie.

[.:[Kazuma]:.]

I liked it since before I played a FF game and I still like it.

[New2Ya]

Do I smell an SW-fanboy?

Originally Posted by Twilight12

Everything he said was true. This was a NEW Final Fantasy story, not a mixture of every other game together. Just because you "New2ya" say it doesn't fit YOUR requirements doesn't mean its not Final Fantasy worthy. this statement of yours was seriously BS.

You still dont understand my point apparently. Read it again, please.

Not every Final Fantasy game has to have the same things. By saying that one game didn't have this, and one game having that and what not doesn't mean shit and doesn't give you evidence to back uo your statement. So what if SOME stories have different things? I think most FF games are set in SEPERATE universes/worlds, so its only natural for them to have different "CORE" elements for each one.

What Final Fantasy is all about is new different stories in different universes.

However, what connects them is the core elements.

That's my whole point. The reason why they are still considered Final Fantasy is because they all (at a certain point in the franchise) had Chocobo's, Cid, Moogles, etc.

The beauty in SW is that it IS different while having some elements that FF games have.

Some = one, which is Cid. And even still, they fail, calling him Sid.

So it didn't tickle your fancy, BIG DEAL, move on and stop bashing on everyone.

Bashing what?

Last thing ima say about your statement is this, and i'm gonna bring back a statement you said, because you clearly were oblivious to the WHOLE purpose of this thread.


The only REASON they brought this up was because D Athier brought up the fact that HE believed SW was more intuned with FFVII than AC itself. Now whether I believe in that statement is not the problem, the problem is you assumming that it has to be in every other game ( VII ).

BS.

So the story resembles FFVII. Does that mean that immediatly it should be considered as a true FF title?

Funny, cuz then pretty much every Marvel story should be considered X-Men.

Srsly. Whats the point of making new games if they all consist the same thing? Maybe, once you understand that FF is not a continuation like lets say the Sonic series, and that FF is a SERIES of different games for the most part ( excluding FF7 Compliations and X-2), and do indeed hold some relationship together.

Again, this is EXACTLY my point. Damn, you oughta read careful.

They hold some RELATIONSHIP, yet SW did NOT HAVE THAT. The end.

" Well thats what im saying, that SW doesn't hold any connections with the FF World, what i have to say to you is that, Yes, they DO need to have some known elements included in thier series of games, but NOT those that you suggested.

Then which elements does it need, genius? Cuz there are none else.

Suggestion: watch the following YouTube videos, it's all by the same user, speaks for itself.
YouTube - The Evolution of Final Fantasy [01] Crystal Theme (Part 1)

[Twilight12]

Well first off, dont assume im a fan boy, as i clearly stated im not in either side. I've only watched that movie once. It wasn't my favorite.

to put it simple, you and I can argue for hours, and your not gonna make any sense to me. Your being biased about the whole thing, and saying what YOU THINK the core elements are. For Christ sake, did you talk to Nomura about what the CORE elements were?

I'm not here to bitch and com and complain, but from what i read clearly from your post, you shouldn't be telling people that thier thinking is wrong on what they believe and whether or not they consider SW a FF movie. Like you said its about new universes, and i think SW fits right in there. Unless, your gonna tell me that ITS not a NEW experience and its like every other game, which in then , if you do say that, then you shouldn't be complaining about anything, and your whole post mean nothing.

[New2Ya]

Originally Posted by Twilight12

Well first off, dont assume im a fan boy, as i clearly stated im not in either side. I've only watched that movie once. It wasn't my favorite.

to put it simple, you and I can argue for hours, and your not gonna make any sense to me. Your being biased about the whole thing, and saying what YOU THINK the core elements are. For Christ sake, did you talk to Nomura about what the CORE elements were?

How ignorant are you, really?

A core element is an always-returning element.

Every element I named, is that always-returning element. If you disagree with that, this conversation is already over, cause that shows how little you know about the franchise.

Unless, your gonna tell me that ITS not a NEW experience and its like every other game, which in then , if you do say that, then you shouldn't be complaining about anything, and your whole post mean nothing.

The only thing I complain about is it's missing familiar elements that make Final Fantasy.

Even the font of the logo is non-Final Fantasy. Just saying...

True, we can talk about this for hours since you apparently dont recognize Chocobo's when you see them, nor Moogles or any other element that is in every single FF whenever it was introduced in the franchise.

But apparently a lot of people agree with me, or else they'd be telling I'm wrong as well.

Then which elements does it need, genius? Cuz there are none else.

I'd like that question answered.

You're so convinced that what I call teh core elements are ABSOLUTELY not the core elements of the franchise, that apparently you got some really good spicy ones to tell me. I'm extremely eager to hear yours...