Final Fantasy : The Spirits Within

[Darkly Aesthetic]

They were both really mediocre films :D

and I saw both of em before I even played a FF game.

[Max/souleater]

Originally Posted by D Athier

Okay, I'm going to stir up a storm here, but uh...

Spirits Within > Advent Children.

Now, how could this be? How could a movie with pretty boy Cloud and gang not be better than an original piece that had no direct connection to any Final Fantasy game? I'm not trying to just blatantly troll here. There's an honestly very good reason as to why this is. And I'll list them off.

• But The Spirits Within didn't connect at all with any Final Fantasy game!

  Untrue. The Spirits Within was an attempt by Square-Enix to create a movie that would be enjoyed by not just fans, but your general movie going public. The majority of the movie going crowd are not gamers. So, this means that creating a movie based on one of the games would mean completely alienating a huge chunk of their demographic. At the same time however, they still wanted to create a movie that their fans would enjoy. Amazingly enough, The Spirits Within has more connections to any FF game, ( especially FFVII, ironically, ) than Advent Children did.
  
  The Asteroid of the destroyed Alien planet.

  This could be likened to Jenova from VII. Jenova was also carried on a asteroid, much like how the Alien Spirits were carried aboard their Asteroid.

  Gaia, Spirit Energy.

  Can anybody say the Life Stream? Gaia is pretty much the lifeblood of the planet, also damn similiar to FFVII. At the same time, the Military in Spirits Within could be likened to Shinra. They use Spirit Energy as a source of energy and power. Much like how Shinra used the Life Stream to produce Mako.

  Zeus Cannon

  Sister Ray of FFVII fame. 'nuff said.

  Where the shit is Cid?

  Doctor Sid. Unconvential spelling of the name, but it's exactly the same.

• Dude, you lie! Aye Cee was teh bestest ting eva

  This is also untrue. Advent Children is a medicore film. The only people who say otherwise are Final Fantasy fanboys. Esspecially the rather annoying hardcore FFVII fans. They enjoyed it because they finallly got to see fan favorite Cloud and gang move around and speak for the first time ever.
  
  Now, don't get me wrong. I did enjoy Advent Children. But that was because it was fanservice. It was made to pander to the fans. On all other fronts, Advent Children was bad to mediocre. You had lackluster voice acting, horrendesly overcomplicated and confusing plot and not to mention obvious money greedy attempts of fanservice.
  
  The Spirits Within however, was new and original. It was still fanservice on some level, but not on the same level as Advent Children was. It featured new characters in a new, more sci-fi enviroment, with an entirely new, but still connected plot.
  
  Now, The Spirits Within was not a great movie, but it's also not a bad film in it's own right. I'd place it in the decent section. But this alone is why Advent Children is an inferior film.

I have SO MUCH more to say on this subject, but I unfortunatly have to run off and do some quick chores. I'll come back to this and add to this entire list just for you.

oh, and inb4 fanboys.

Not all you say is true. now in my opinion, spirits within was disappointing, it gave me absolutely no feeling that i was watching a final fantasy movie. and next, AC isnt only called unmediocre by fanboys, because my friend has never touched final fantasy vii(he only played x and xii), and he loved advent children. it did not have a confusing storyline at all to me. i understodd it perfectly for the most part(although, i will admit, it does seem to make more sense if you play all ffvii games). i was impressed by the voiceover for everybody but cid, they made him sound like an idiot. other than cids voice, the only thing i hated about the movie was how they didnt even attempt to mess with the mouth movements to more fit what they were saying.

[Egypt]

I don't like this movie IMO I find it boreing I find myself fulling asleep watching it. I like AC better, SW just didn't feel like FF at all.

[obbsessed fan]

Originally Posted by TheMuffinMan

I liked this movie.

A lot.

Fags don't like it because it wasn't specifically themed after any FF in particular, but they fail to realize that the movie was treated just as any new entry in the series is: it's a completely new universe with new characters.

Quoted for truth.

I enjoyed both SW and AC greatly.

AC

I like FF7 greatly, but I like the others as well on the same level, But going more depth into at least one makes me happy (I especaily enjoyed Crisis core =D) I guess part of it could be like a moved on phase for cloud so they can get right into the next game after Dirge (Yes, If you played dirge, and Crisis Core, You know another game is coming into the FF7 verse) I can't wait either for it, But IMO they need to stop while their ahead soon.

Now for SW

Saying SW is not final fantasy is BS IMO.

-One finding the spirits could add like a whole middle story to the game

-Actual romance, I was pleased with this =D

-Beings from another planet turning into fiends? No different as Spirits turning into fiends, FFX (IMO FFX seems more illogical)

-Dream seeing? Special thing to add conflict/depht to the main FF heroine.

- I guess making it of this world and not a new one knocks a few points, but I think it in the future regains it? =/

-They had a whole fricken party added to it xD Complete with love interest and story.

-Gaia/Lifestream.

-Uhh the world is near apocolypse end, Cliche FF stuffs =)

-American bad guy, complete with story and motive, Japanese decent Good girl xD

I'd also like to add how you got the soul ripped out of you utterly awesome. =D
IMO both are thumbs up for me. But no need to rip this, just stating some similarities to the series.

[Steve]

I'm absolutely sick and tired of the Final Fantasy VII hate from everyone who plays Final Fantasy games. Don't like the game? Get the hell over it. Seriously. This isn't about flaming a successful game because you're butthurt to hell that FF4,5,6,8 and 9 don't get all the special treatment 7 does. Yeah, it's not God's gift to gaming or storytelling, but it's a damned solid game in its own right.

Advent Children does connect to Final Fantasy VII, and therefore is not entirely just fanservice. Unlike Spirits Within, it was not made for the general public, but it was made for people who enjoyed Final Fantasy VII and wanted to see the characters again and get a bit of a conclusion about the story. It was honestly the only FF I can think of that had an open ending that didn't really conclude. Now it's wrapped up in a neat little package with the end of Advent Children.

Also, I have to disagree with the idea that the voice acting was bad, since I felt the English voice acting was actually rather good in the movie. I was pleasantly surprised when I watched it in English after seeing it in Japanese. It was nowhere near as poor as FFX's voice acting was, and it was a feature length film. They did it well, but people love to find anything and everything they can to absolutely tear apart something they dislike on principle.

Seriously, people think FF7 fanboys are bad, but the FF7 blind haters are ten thousand times worse, and they outnumber the fanboys these days.

I agree wholeheartedly (especially with the last part). I have a friend who hates FFVII for literally no reason. In fact, I asked him the other day, "Why do you hate FFVII?"

His reply: "No reason in particular, just because it's overrated."

I guarantee you'll get that reply from almost every person who hates FFVII. Granted, the rabid fanboys of the series are pretty annoying, but Neo's right, the people who hate on it for no reason are much worse. But yeah, what Neo said pretty much sums up my own thoughts on this matter.

Anyway, as for the movies, I actually thoroughly enjoyed AC. It wasn't a blockbuster by any means, but for what it was, it was worth a watch or two. I guess my cause is helped by the fact that I recently just finished re-playing FFVII shortly before AC's release. FFVII's ending left me wondering what the hell happened to everyone. Hell, almost any RPG does that. That's why I was happy to see AC come out, so I could see some of the characters I grew to love once again. But this isn't just with FFVII. I wouldn't mind watching a film sequel to FFIX, Xenogears, FFT, MGS, or any series that I had grown to love. Granted, AC wasn't GREAT, but the film was enjoyable, and it didn't ruin the original for me in any way; therefore, I have no reason to hate it.

But as for Spirits Within, I haven't seen it yet. However, I'm torrenting it right now, and will watch it tonight. That way I'll see for myself whether or not this shit-storm was necessary.

[Zoidberg!]

Originally Posted by Neo Ragnarok

I'm absolutely sick and tired of the Final Fantasy VII hate from everyone who plays Final Fantasy games. Don't like the game? Get the hell over it. Seriously. This isn't about flaming a successful game because you're butthurt to hell that FF4,5,6,8 and 9 don't get all the special treatment 7 does. Yeah, it's not God's gift to gaming or storytelling, but it's a damned solid game in its own right.

Advent Children does connect to Final Fantasy VII, and therefore is not entirely just fanservice. Unlike Spirits Within, it was not made for the general public, but it was made for people who enjoyed Final Fantasy VII and wanted to see the characters again and get a bit of a conclusion about the story. It was honestly the only FF I can think of that had an open ending that didn't really conclude. Now it's wrapped up in a neat little package with the end of Advent Children.

Also, I have to disagree with the idea that the voice acting was bad, since I felt the English voice acting was actually rather good in the movie. I was pleasantly surprised when I watched it in English after seeing it in Japanese. It was nowhere near as poor as FFX's voice acting was, and it was a feature length film. They did it well, but people love to find anything and everything they can to absolutely tear apart something they dislike on principle.

I don't understand how anyone could feel SW is better than AC .-. I really don't. I'm not saying either are good films, because they're not. Neither are. However AC didn't try to market itself as a film, where Spirits Within did. That makes SW a bigger failure in my opinion.

Seriously, people think FF7 fanboys are bad, but the FF7 blind haters are ten thousand times worse, and they outnumber the fanboys these days.

I know that I am one of the haters that you are talking about. I admit it. FFVII has never been my favorite FF. But, it hasn't been my least favorite either.

I was actually fine with FF7. The game is fine. No problem their. I actually agreed with some of the fanboys, or, at least till I realized what they were actually like.

Let's say your favorite FF(I'll just use mine, as an example) is FFIV. You get called retarded, attacked, and basically internet raped, because of your opinion. Now, it's the internet, so I really could care less, but, after I while, you stop liking FF7.

Then, after a time, it evolves into more of a hatred(Not fully, no). And, from their, you reach my stage.

Yes, it is overrated. But, that is not the only reason, as I have stated, that I don't like it. The fanbase, the characters(I do like a few of the characters, but most of them fail), and, most of all, the franchise it inspired, are all reasons that I don't like it.

Still, I suppose I can't judge AC vs. The Spirits Within as I have not seen the latter. Not that AC was very good, though.

So, /minor rant.

[New2Ya]

Originally Posted by obbsessed fan

Now for SW

Saying SW is not final fantasy is BS IMO.

-One finding the spirits could add like a whole middle story to the game

-Actual romance, I was pleased with this =D

-Beings from another planet turning into fiends? No different as Spirits turning into fiends, FFX (IMO FFX seems more illogical)

-Dream seeing? Special thing to add conflict/depht to the main FF heroine.

- I guess making it of this world and not a new one knocks a few points, but I think it in the future regains it? =/

-They had a whole fricken party added to it xD Complete with love interest and story.

-Gaia/Lifestream.

-Uhh the world is near apocolypse end, Cliche FF stuffs =)

-American bad guy, complete with story and motive, Japanese decent Good girl xD

Quoted for BS.

Look, all you point out are stories that have been told in other Final Fantasies.

That doesnt make it a Final Fantasy, it makes it a rehash of older FFs and setups for new FFs.

Final Fantasy is not lifestream (did FFVIII have that?), Final Fantasy is not romance (did FFXII have that really?), Final Fantasy is not beings from another planet turning into fiends (since when does FFX stand for the standard FF?), Final Fantasy is not dream seeing (only some had that), Final Fantasy is not apocolypse (FFXII had no apocolypse...), etc.

Again, you make it look like Final Fantasy has standard story elements. That's BS.

We, people who call this movie not a real Final Fantasy title, call things like... ->

Moogles/Moombas, Chocobo's, Magic (Fire/Fira/Firaga, etc), Biggs and Wedge, Nobuo Uematsu music (at the time, that is), Amano-logo (or at least A logo), Summons (Ifrit, Odin, Bahamut and Shiva being THE CORE summons), Cactuar/Tonberry (CLASSICS!!), certain jobs (Black mages in particular)and of course an airship (Ragnarok, Highwind).

...Final Fantasy.

If I'd use your logic, I guess I could call Spiderman a Final Fantasy title, as it has aliens from outer space, super powers, a party, romance, etc.

Sorry m8, but Spirits Within lacked the Final Fantasy Factor.

[Tobuoi]

Well, you're probably right...well, partially, anyways. Has Squeenix made any claims on what makes something Final Fantasy other than that it's fantasy? Or even more blunt than that, because it's their god-damned product and they decided to name it that? Come on. It was basically just made by the same team with SIMILAR thematic elements. The movie was clearly not supposed to be identical to their games. AC, on the other hand...well, I view that as more of a revamped visual aid, in a way. I'm not saying that that's all that it is, just that it had a different intent than SW. And guess what? People can like both, shockingly enough.

And as for things being overrated, as irrational as it seems, that really can be enough to make someone hate something. I think of it like a religion...if you're a Jew in a room full of Catholics, sooner or later, you're probably going to feel that your own personal tastes are being tread upon. Mind you, we're a little more open about bashing each other's anime/video game tastes than religion, cos we weren't brought up to think that calling Naruto stupid is disrespectful. *shrug*

[Forever Atlas]

Back when the spirits within came out in theatres.... I saw it the day it came out. Back then.... the graphics and animation were like WOW!.... (now they are like.... wow... what was I thinking?) But I still thought the writing and directing of the movie sucked...

But who am I to talk? lol I still got the DVD....

As for AC.... graphics = awesome story hmmm... eh okay. Never was too into the FF7 series too much.

And yet... I got that DVD too >.> maybe its just like Spider-Man.... My fav superhero from my wee lil days... movies sucked.., but Im a fan... so I still get the stuff >.>

[TheMuffinMan]

Originally Posted by New2Ya

Quoted for BS.

Look, all you point out are stories that have been told in other Final Fantasies.

That doesnt make it a Final Fantasy, it makes it a rehash of older FFs and setups for new FFs.

Final Fantasy is not lifestream (did FFVIII have that?), Final Fantasy is not romance (did FFXII have that really?), Final Fantasy is not beings from another planet turning into fiends (since when does FFX stand for the standard FF?), Final Fantasy is not dream seeing (only some had that), Final Fantasy is not apocolypse (FFXII had no apocolypse...), etc.

Again, you make it look like Final Fantasy has standard story elements. That's BS.

We, people who call this movie not a real Final Fantasy title, call things like... ->



...Final Fantasy.

If I'd use your logic, I guess I could call Spiderman a Final Fantasy title, as it has aliens from outer space, super powers, a party, romance, etc.

Sorry m8, but Spirits Within lacked the Final Fantasy Factor.

So, you're calling the movie a rehash of FFs, and instead requests that the movie should have had more rehashed things from FF.

All aboard the hypocrisy train.

Choo-Choo

[New2Ya]

Originally Posted by TheMuffinMan

So, you're calling the movie a rehash of FFs, and instead requests that the movie should have had more rehashed things from FF.

All aboard the hypocrisy train.

Choo-Choo

All aboard the changing-stories-train!

Seriously, you gotta learn to either disagree with things or let it go, cuz the way you handle debates is stupid. I've been telling this many times before, but I'll do it again.

Just so can understand it better, there's a difference between story rehashing and MASCOT rehashing.

Final Fantasy is epic stories combined with their mascots.

Chocobo's, Moogles, Summons, etc, they are all mascots. Just things that makes Final Fantasy what it is. Even you know that, if you really are that Final Fantasy fan you claim to be.

So dont try to change my words to make me look like a fool, while in truth, it shows again and again how sad you handle debates.

Well, you're probably right...well, partially, anyways. Has Squeenix made any claims on what makes something Final Fantasy other than that it's fantasy? Or even more blunt than that, because it's their god-damned product and they decided to name it that? Come on. It was basically just made by the same team with SIMILAR thematic elements. The movie was clearly not supposed to be identical to their games.

Are you seriously asking me this?

Why is Dragon Quest not a Final Fantasy? I mean, it has fantasy stories, dragons, etc. It could EASILY be Final Fantasy then. With all those Sizzle spells, those slimeys, that Dragonball drawing style, etc.

No, it's not Final Fantasy right? Reason? Because all those elements I just named are mascots for Dragon Quest. ANyone who sees a Slime will say "Oh look, that's from Dragon Quest!" That's how significant it is for the game.

Chocobo is a Final Fantasy mascot in taht way.

[TheMuffinMan]

Hypocrisy train rolling into the station, woo-woooo.

Do you have your ticket, New2ya?

[chaywa]

When I was 12, when this film was released it was pretty damn intense, especially watching it on a lovely large cinema screen. Albeit my tastes have changed slightly over the timeframe since, it still remains an above average sci-fi film that implemented the 'Fantasy' element pretty well.

I never understood the need for 'Final' in FF anyway.

[*~NeoAdamus~*]

Originally Posted by TheMuffinMan

Hypocrisy train rolling into the station, woo-woooo.

Do you have your ticket, New2ya?

He is right, you do sometimes handle your debates a little stupid

but im no innocent myself. I honestly don't think i could be as good as a mod as you, but i also know that you aren't handling the situation with New2ya the way a mod should judging on the "respect all members" sticky in the Kh Future Forums, even if it does imply to ppl criticizing newcomers to that specific area

just stating my opinion

[Tobuoi]

Lulz, I didn't think that such a mild "debate" warranted nastiness--especially between two mods, but okay.

Anyways, New2Ya, I don't know much about Dragon Quest, but judging by the looks of it, I'm gonna go ahead and guess that it's made by a different team (within Square Enix) than Final Fantasy...and not to mention, my main point was that "Final Fantasy" is simply a name. And it's a big name for the company, so it was smart advertising, from a tactical standpoint.