Xion's Keyblade - where from

[Smile]

I'm still not sure if this belongs in here or the FoKH section. Oh well.
I also wonder if this theory was brought up recently or not. But here goes.

We know Xion's Keyblade was said to be an imitation in the Ultimania. That she was copying Roxas's ability to wield, and hence the Keyblade's abilities and looks. Nomura seems to be supportive of Riku's claims about it being a sham.

A lot of people argue that it being an imitation isn't it. Nomura was supporting what Riku said without it being true. That the Keyblade is real.

Well... what if it's both?

Xion obtained the ability to wield over Roxas's Keyblade. That can be explained due to her copying his ability to wield that specific KK.
We learn that afterwards, however, Xion has her own Keyblade, seemingly immediately afterward.
Now, nothing about that scene indicated she copied a Keyblade. Just the ability to wield one.
Where, then, did her Keyblade come from? The "base" her Replica nature molded into the Kingdom Key, that she finally was able to wield thanks to Roxas?

For those of you who still can't see it coming, I'll spell it out for you.

Aqua

That's right, Aqua. Whose Keyblade - of unknown nature due to lacking a Keychain - was in easy reach for Xemnas in the Chamber of Repose.
It all magically ties in together - Xion getting her own Keyblade, Xemnas reminiscenting no doubt over Ven as he tells Roxas that "sleep has taken you once more", and that scene from the Final Mix+ - where Xemnas went to visit the CoR, and we got to see Aqua's Armor and Keyblade.

The Keyblades TAV have arguably aren't "proper" Keyblades, and the one we saw in the CoR lacked a Keychain still.
Despite the Keyblade Xion used having a Keychain, we must keep in mind that Xion's ability is not that of proper wielding. It is a copy. And in the face of the assumption it's not even her own Keyblade base (well, not truly - depends on how far you wanna take her Aqua-relations), it having a Keychain means all but nothing as far as it not being a true Keyblade goes.
It's like how at the end of the game, Xion looked like Sora. It changed very little about the nature of her existence, even if she did have his powers as a Keyblade wielder. She was still just that - an imitation, a sham.

And yet, it would not be a "full" sham - as it would have a base. Aqua's Keyblade.

Hm. Now I have to wonder about this "body" Xemnas gave her for the final battle... and how much it could match Aqua's armor in design o,o

As for 'if she had a proper Keyblade base, why did she need to awaken a new Keyblade inside Roxas? Why not just give him Aqua's?'
I doubt Xemnas would've let her go out with it. Her encounter with Roxas was supposed to be the final showdown between them. Namely, either she'd have won - and gotten Roxas's Keyblade, or she'd have lost - and thus Xemnas would've lost Aqua's Keyblade. Therefore, there was no reason for him to let Xion go with Aqua's Keyblade, not in light of the new 'body' he gave her.

Opinions please.

[Snow]

Hmm...

From Days, I always thought that in a way Roxas and Xion were sharing the same keyblade, in a way. That's why sometimes there's power fluctuations, eg sometimes Xion cannot wield while Roxas can, while later on Roxas starts complaining about how heavy the keyblade is becoming and stuff, because Xion is taking more of the ability away.

But maybe that's just me. Can't really explain why there are two, maybe it's cause they are both 'spawns' of Sora that results in Sora's keyblade being shared by the two of them. Or maybe Sora's heart echoes in both of them, allowing it to be a sort of a partial 'dual wield', since apparently you need a heart to wield.

[Smile]

Originally Posted by Grimmedslug

Hmm...

From Days, I always thought that in a way Roxas and Xion were sharing the same keyblade, in a way. That's why sometimes there's power fluctuations, eg sometimes Xion cannot wield while Roxas can, while later on Roxas starts complaining about how heavy the keyblade is becoming and stuff, because Xion is taking more of the ability away.

I separate the ability to wield, and actually having a Keyblade here. Because Riku had the KK for a decade, but was unable to wield it until Sora pulled it out of him. And then, despite arguably being able to wield, he could only use the Soul Eater as he lacked a proper Keyblade.
Hence - separation of terms.
Roxas had the KK, but using it along the way, as he admitted - was taking more of him than it used to. The wielding itself, not having the Keyblade.

[Snow]

But wouldn't it be said that

The keyblade chooses it's master?

So I would think that even if Xemnas dumped it on Xion, she still wouldn't be able to use it.

Your theory is based upon the grounds that by using Roxas' keyblade, she learnt how to summon her 'own', aka Aqua's keyblade, and mold it into the shape she is familiar with, the KK that Roxas uses.

But then she could not use the keyblade during two distinctive phases. One before Darkside, then between until they got the Bully Dog. So if I follow your theory (hopefully, I am), then she would have learnt to summon her keyblade by Darkside. So why would she lose the ability later on?

Even if it's about wielding, it also goes that she SHOULD have been able to wield even as the power fluctuates, because the keyblade chooses its master based on light/darkness/strength of heart and won't suddenly be like 'oh I don't like you anymore I won't let you wield anymore', and none of that actually diminishes in either party, as far as I know.

Sorry if I'm not making sense. It makes some sense in my head but not in my words.

[Silver warrior]

maybe they made her a fake keyblade that looks like the kindom key,and all she nedded is roxas power.

[Allister Rose]

i always thought that the keyblade was part of her as a replica, but merely that that has the abilities of the keyblade since she's taking power from ROxas.

Also when Xemnas tells Roxas "Sleep has taken you once more" it doesn't necessarily imply Ven. it could imply Sora. Sora is in his sleep to regain his memories. so by "sleep has taken you once again" it could mean that Roxas has been taken by sleep just as sora has.


i ithnk this theory has been done before. i dont agree though.

in the chamber of Repose he appears to call the armor his friend but in 358/2 days he simply uses Xion? Chamber of repose implies that some part of Aqua is still in that room. but i ownt lie the armor does appear similar to TAV's armor, but i think that the armor should have looked exactly like Aqua's instead of appearing similar to SOra in an armor form,

[Smile]

Originally Posted by Grimmedslug

But wouldn't it be said that

It was. We're not talking about truly proper Keyblades here.

So I would think that even if Xemnas dumped it on Xion, she still wouldn't be able to use it.

But Xion copied Roxas's "qualification", is what I'm saying.

Your theory is based upon the grounds that by using Roxas' keyblade, she learnt how to summon her 'own', aka Aqua's keyblade, and mold it into the shape she is familiar with, the KK that Roxas uses.

No, I'm saying that by using Roxas's Keyblade, she copied his qualification. Then Xemnas gave her a sort of a "core" to wield, and her replica nature did the rest.

But then she could not use the keyblade during two distinctive phases. One before Darkside, then between until they got the Bully Dog. So if I follow your theory (hopefully, I am), then she would have learnt to summon her keyblade by Darkside. So why would she lose the ability later on?

The ability to wield itself is what she was draining from Roxas. So much like Riku before KH1, just having the Keyblade would mean squat. She was losing the wielding ability to use it.

Even if it's about wielding, it also goes that she SHOULD have been able to wield even as the power fluctuates, because the keyblade chooses its master based on light/darkness/strength of heart and won't suddenly be like 'oh I don't like you anymore I won't let you wield anymore', and none of that actually diminishes in either party, as far as I know.

But it did diminish, that's the point. Roxas waking up and such made her wielding abilities lessen.

Originally Posted by Silver warrior

maybe they made her a fake keyblade that looks like the kindom key,and all she nedded is roxas power.

Maybe. Maybe they used Aqua's :P

Originally Posted by Allister Rose

Also when Xemnas tells Roxas "Sleep has taken you once more" it doesn't necessarily imply Ven. it could imply Sora. Sora is in his sleep to regain his memories. so by "sleep has taken you once again" it could mean that Roxas has been taken by sleep just as sora has.

Roxas passed out on Day 26. Sora went into the pod on Day 49. He wasn't talking about Roxas.

i ithnk this theory has been done before.

Possibly by me even. Though I remember making a theory about Aqua's Keyblade and Riku xD;

in the chamber of Repose he appears to call the armor his friend but in 358/2 days he simply uses Xion?

It's Xemnas. If anyone in the Organization really cast aside their time as a human being, it's him, not to mention he didn't have real Memories of Aqua to begin with. Until we know why he called her 'friend', it can't be used to debunk anything about this.

but i think that the armor should have looked exactly like Aqua's instead of appearing similar to SOra in an armor form,

Kind of goes against Xion being a Sora replica. The armor would've been Xion's new "body" Xemnas gave her, but the Memories were still Sora's.

[∞]

Fuck you Smile, you always make these things sound possible if not definitely going to be it.

[Smile]

Originally Posted by ∞

Fuck you Smile, you always make these things sound possible if not definitely going to be it.

I guessed half of Days right. Time to start raking up likely 'told you so rights' for BBS.

[Key of Valor]

I prefer the idea that Xion's Keyblade is simply an imitation and nothing more, but I guess this theory is possible...

(I suppose if you're willing to believe that Xion's Keyblade has Aqua's Keyblade as a base, then you probably will tolerate the view that Roxas' Keyblades are the base for Riku and Kairi's Keyblades)

I do have one question though about this theory. If Aqua's Keyblade is the base for Xion's Keyblade, then what happened to Aqua's Keyblade at the end of KH'Days?

[Smile]

Originally Posted by Key of Valor

(I suppose if you're willing to believe that Xion's Keyblade has Aqua's Keyblade as a base, then you probably will tolerate the view that Roxas' Keyblades are the base for Riku and Kairi's Keyblades)

Not in the least. No idea how you reached that conclusion, especially with my well known opinions on the matter.
Here, I'll clue you in.
http://forums.khinsider.com/future-k...xh-theory.html

I do have one question though about this theory. If Aqua's Keyblade is the base for Xion's Keyblade, then what happened to Aqua's Keyblade at the end of KH'Days?

I pondered about it for a while and reached the conclusion Xemnas would've had no problem taking it away from her before sending her off to fight Roxas. It was sink or swim - either Xion won and would've absorbed Roxas's own Keyblade - hence, no longer needing Aqua's, or she'd have lost, and hence he saved himself from losing Aqua's Keyblade.

[Key of Valor]

Originally Posted by Smile

Not in the least. No idea how you reached that conclusion, especially with my well known opinions on the matter.

I guess twisting around Nomura's words is only acceptable when it serves your own theories, lol.

Originally Posted by Smile

I pondered about it for a while and reached the conclusion Xemnas would've had no problem taking it away from her before sending her off to fight Roxas. It was sink or swim - either Xion won and would've absorbed Roxas's own Keyblade - hence, no longer needing Aqua's, or she'd have lost, and hence he saved himself from losing Aqua's Keyblade.

Wait... so Xion's Keyblade has Aqua's Keyblade as a base, but when Xemnas took that base component back, Xion still had a Keyblade? Could you explain?

[Smile]

Originally Posted by Key of Valor

I guess twisting around Nomura's words is only acceptable when it serves your own theories, lol.

That's how it usually goes. Because, you know, you do it too and all. So pipe down.
And save for saying Xion's Keyblade was an imitation, when did I even mention Nomura here?

Wait... so Xion's Keyblade has Aqua's Keyblade as a base, but when Xemnas took that base component back, Xion still had a Keyblade? Could you explain?

No Keyblade. After Xemnas takes her away, we see her as Sora, and then as the new form Xemnas gave her. When next we see her as "Xion", she fades away. No sign of her Keyblade remains. And anything resembling it in the boss fight can be explained by her new form, and the Memories she absorbed through the devices - which in fact became her weapons if you pay close attention. They break, and that's how she changes form.
No need for the Keyblade until after the battle's over.

[Igshar]

Thoughts complaints and disagreements. D:

Now, correct if I am wrong, but Nomura stated that Xion's absorption into Roxas awoke a second Keyblade within him. It didn't awaken a new ability to wield, rather a new Keyblade. Roxas already had the ability to wield, so yeah.

That being said, I'm almost certain the base for Xion's Keyblade in Days happens to be that second Keyblade of Roxas'. Theoretically, before Xion's creation, Roxas should have been able to Dual Wield. He doesn't remember those first seven days and we don't see those first seven days, so he could have Dual Wielded in that time leading up to Xion's creation. This is possible, since he would have still had everything Xion would later take away, yes?

Continuing from there, that would explain why his little red circle had two Keyblades in it in KH2, since he began with them both and whichever one of them won would be using both of them in the end.

The real question in my mind becomes which Keyblade is it that's inside of Roxas, being sapped by Xion? Ventus' or Sora's?

[Smile]

Originally Posted by Igshar

Now, correct if I am wrong, but Nomura stated that Xion's absorption into Roxas awoke a second Keyblade within him. It didn't awaken a new ability to wield, rather a new Keyblade. Roxas already had the ability to wield, so yeah.

Didn't really go into the whole duel wielding issue here. Though if we must -
Xion had another set of 'wielding memories'. Much like how Riku arguably got his second Keyblade when XH's Memories of Wielding awoke inside him, going by a possible explanation to the novels, Xion giving Roxas another set of wielding memories, no doubt linking to Ven, would 'awaken' another Keyblade - via awakening the ability to wield it.
Riku had a Keyblade. What he was lacking that needed to be 'awakened' was the wielding ability.

That being said, I'm almost certain the base for Xion's Keyblade in Days happens to be that second Keyblade of Roxas'.

Only if that was so, she'd have given it back instead of waking it up just then.

Theoretically, before Xion's creation, Roxas should have been able to Dual Wield. He doesn't remember those first seven days and we don't see those first seven days, so he could have Dual Wielded in that time leading up to Xion's creation. This is possible, since he would have still had everything Xion would later take away, yes?

Axel: TWO?!
I doubt Roxas ever Duel Wielded before the end of Days. He was under close survialence at the time, mostly for being a zombie.
Also, saying Xion took away his ability to wield means she took the Keyblade away with her. That is not the case.

Continuing from there, that would explain why his little red circle had two Keyblades in it in KH2, since he began with them both and whichever one of them won would be using both of them in the end.

The thing is, the Oathkeeper and Oblivion didn't materialize for Roxas until afterwards. That's kind of a based fact. Going by his 'trade mark' weapon, the proof of existence just might've changed due to some odd link to him.

The real question in my mind becomes which Keyblade is it that's inside of Roxas, being sapped by Xion? Ventus' or Sora's?

The games and interviews make me think neither. As again, otherwise - why awaken that ability inside Roxas, instead of give it back?