What Xion's based on

[Smile]

So Xion looks like Kairi because that's the base Namine delinked in Sora's Memories for her.
It makes sense that Namine and Riku would see Kairi on her too, seeing how they both know/are related to Kairi.

But Axel's got me thinking.
He never even met Kairi, let alone had the capability to relate to her inside Sora's Memories.
On the other hand, he not only met Namine, but he comments about the similarity constantly in his reports, and Saix went as far as to joke about how Namine and Xion both are Axel's favorite people.

So if Roxas and Axel both see Xion in the same way, not to mention Riku and Namine who obviously know Namine - I have to wonder if Xion really is "based" on Kairi. By the time Sora forgot Kairi, he also remembered Namine, making for rather an interesting mix-up.
The mess Namine made with the Memories of herself and Kairi would certainly explain lots of things, and Memories of Kairi could leak out along with the rest of them.
With how Sora treated Namine in CoM, it certainly would add up a lot more that Xion's based on her if she's based on Sora's MIP, rather than Kairi whose importance to Sora is still debatable despite it all.
Would also tie in with Xion having Sora's Memories of CO.

Lol. Maybe Riku saw Namine when he unhooded Xion in Beast's Castle? Could be why he stopped by TLTW - to see if everything was alright.

Just some random ponderings. Enjoy bitching about this.

[mangekyou sasuke]

You, saying it like that makes me think also. We all know you can't really forget a memory, it is merely buried in your heart. I also noticed something between Saix and Axel. Saix always seem to insinuate that Axel had changed, as if he'd known him before, it is confirmed when he refers to Axel as his human name Lea. We finally figure out that they were childhood friends when we see a secret report by Axel who says he shares a childhood feeling with Xion and Roxas, one which he should share with Saix. They both seem to have there own business in relation to Xemnas and the founders of the organisation meaning that something must've happened when they were humans, maybe it happens in BBS?

I think that the reason that Axel, Riku, Roxas, Namine and maybe even Saix is because of Aqua. I think that as has been done to roxas and Xion, TAV made it so they were "forgotten" by those who had ties to them. As we know, nothing can ever be completely forgotten. The reason they can all see her the way she is, is because the memories aren't that of kairi as was said but the hidden memories of Aqua.

Riku of course remembers here from the islands, as we have seen in screenshots.
Namine remembers Aqua because she is apart of kairi.
Axel remembers Aqua from an encounter with her in BBS, I think this is the same siax.
I think that Saix can see her as the rest do except he was there when she was created and knows her as a puppet, and treats her as such regardless of her appearance.
i think Axel actually knows the real truth about her and refuses to say anything, and so is siax because they don't want Xemnas to know of her origins for unknown reasons, maybe because of the fact that Xemnas was terra and her former friend, whether he remembers of not.
(I'll edit this soon once i put more together)

Now, to Roxas....i think that he is the creation of Sora's hidden memories of Ventus, just as Xion is the creation of Sora's hidden memories of Aqua.

I think that both Roxas and Xion were made by Sora and not the organisation.
They are both creations from the memories which Sora had hidden in his heart.
These memories took the shape of who they were about. Memories were the only mediums in which they could exist because sora possessed his body, soul and heart already. Memories are unfortunately not a good medium for existance as we see them passing out and fading. Nobodies that we have seen already haven't shown these symtoms.
(i'll edit this soon once i put more together).

This one was an "on the spot" theory so feel free to point out some faults for me to improve on XD

[Smile]

I think that the reason that Axel, Riku, Roxas, Namine and maybe even Saix is because of Aqua.

Saix saw Xion as her puppet-self, confirmed in the reports.

I think that as has been done to roxas and Xion, TAV made it so they were "forgotten" by those who had ties to them.

It breaks apart when you bring in Namine. If we're going by the assumption I brought up that "you see the same face on Xion, you're affected by the same Memories", Namine'd have no way of seeing Memories of TAV, least of all Aqua, unless you wanna pull a conspiracy theory from hell concerning the Chambers, and her stumbling into the CoW that linked to the Armor in the CoR.

The reason they can all see her the way she is, is because the memories aren't that of kairi as was said but the hidden memories of Aqua.

That aside, I would sooner link Xion to Aqua than to Kairi, really. Roxas is Ven enough to pull it off. The question would remain then why would Xigbar see her as Ven, unless of course he simply didn't meet Aqua to such ap point.

Namine remembers Aqua because she is apart of kairi.

Who'd have no Memories that belonged to Kairi, and that seems to be what makes this all work. Roxas is in the mess because he's bound to Sora and Xion. The Memories flow through him. So whatever based Xion would be seen by Roxas. Namine doesn't have that going for her though.

i think Axel actually knows the real truth about her and refuses to say anything, and so is siax because they don't want Xemnas to know of her origins for unknown reasons, maybe because of the fact that Xemnas was terra and her former friend, whether he remembers of not.

If they FORGOT, they wouldn't say much of anything about anything :P so saying they refuse to say anythin is pointless.

Now, to Roxas....i think that he is the creation of Sora's hidden memories of Ventus, just as Xion is the creation of Sora's hidden memories of Aqua.

This I kind of like. The only thing I have against it is that it would seemingly link Aqua to Kairi through Xion XD; unless of course the only thing in between would be the looks as if she really is Aqua based, the whole "Sora's MIP" thing breaks apart.

I think that both Roxas and Xion were made by Sora and not the organisation.

Roxas - duh, he's his Nobody. Xion though was made by the Org. By Vexen to be precise.
It would explain Roxas's looks though.


I'd have to ask you not to hijack this thread though :P your own theory in your own thread. Or make a general one. This is about how Xion is possibly based on Sora's Memories of Namine and not of Kairi.

[Piercing Light]

This makes sense. I was wondering about why Xion appeared that way to Axel. Also there's the fact that most or all of Sora's memories of Kairi weren't where they belonged.

[Key of Valor]

Well, I think the point of Xigbar seeing Ven when he looked at Xion demonstrated the point real nicely that Xion can take on the appearance of people in the memories she has collected, so long as the person who is looking at her has some sort of relation to the individual in those memories. Those with no relation to those in her memories determine how they see Xion through their own opinion of her.

Xemnas met Sora, so he saw her as Sora.
Roxas was connected to Kairi, so he saw her as Kairi.
Saix considered her as a puppet, so he saw her as a puppet.

Xion's nature though was to draw power, abilities, and memories from both Roxas and Sora.

Somehow she reached so deep into their memories and found a memory of Ven, which is exemplified in how Xigbar saw her as Ven.

If Xion's powers were taking memories from that deep within Sora and Roxas, then perhaps she even took the unchained memories about the events of Castle Oblivion that sunk deep inside Sora's heart when Namine had him enter the pod. Thus Xion would even have Sora's memories of Namine.

Axel was related to Namine, which would explain why he saw Xion as Namine when he returned from Castle Oblivion.

I'm pretty sure it was stated that Xion was based on Sora's most important memories, which would be memories Kairi.

[Dark_Wielder610]

actually xion's a puppet. she was never supposed to even have an identity. she was just a face. but when soras memories got scattered, they went into roxas. and beacause xion is supposed to take roxas's power, she took his memories to. and the memories of kairi shaped her.

[Smile]

If Xion's powers were taking memories from that deep within Sora and Roxas, then perhaps she even took the unchained memories about the events of Castle Oblivion that sunk deep inside Sora's heart when Namine had him enter the pod. Thus Xion would even have Sora's memories of Namine.

It's been based she has Memories of CO - when she told Axel she "met" him there, indicating she "remembered" Sora's interaction with Axel in there.

I'm pretty sure it was stated that Xion was based on Sora's most important memories, which would be memories Kairi.

The ones who said it were Namine and Riku, whose bias is pretty stinging. No one of any true relation to Xion, her nature and her creation ever hinted towards that. Especially seeing how by the time Namine told her she had Sora's most important Memories, Xion pretty much had all of his Memories.
Namine however believed the Memories of her would fuel feelings for Kairi. And Sora treated Namine a lot better than he treated Kairi. So it all adds up.

actually xion's a puppet. she was never supposed to even have an identity. she was just a face. but when soras memories got scattered, they went into roxas. and beacause xion is supposed to take roxas's power, she took his memories to. and the memories of kairi shaped her.

:\ I know she's a puppet. I'm saying the Memories that scattered that shaped her were of Namine, not of Kairi. Same face.

EDIT: ok. So. Here's another thing to consider.

In the Days novels, Namine apparently said she cannot create new Memories. Seeing the content of what Sora 'remembered' of her, I'd say that at least content-wise - that's bull.
However, what could've happened was that she can't create new memories in the sense she can't create new links in a chain. She paints over an existing link until it's so different from the original Memory it serves as a new Memory for all purposes and intents.
It would certainly tie in with them saying in the novels Namine based herself on Kairi - by "painting" her Memories over the Memories of Kairi. Sora's feelings of friendship towards Kairi would still be there, relating to that link regardless of its content - but only now, he'd remember Namine in them.
And that's where Namine's comment about making Sora's feelings for Kairi stronger kicks in - the content that had Namine in it made Sora fall in love with Namine, as he attested to being certain she was more than just a friend to him. However, once the "Namine paint" was to be peeled and the true Memory was to resurface - the feelings Sora had for Namine would still point to the same link, who'd now have Kairi again.
Not saying I believe that's what happened but not only does it prove that SoKai post CoM is SoNami dependent, but also ties in to Xion being based on Memories of Namine.

Why? Because Namine painted over Memories. She shaped them. Possibly even Memories not only of Kairi's. And much like shaping the Memories, she shaped Xion, due to her relation to Sora's Memories.
So since they both have the same face but different hair, we'd get just that - the same face as them, with a hair style that is neither.
And that would also explain why Memories of Kairi didn't leak out until after Sora was put to sleep, despite Xion being based on those Memories - since she was affected by something other than the Memories leaking out at that stage.
Would certainly explain why she's a lookalike and not a clone, like when Xigbar saw her as Ven and we saw her as Sora - because what dictated the look were different things.
It would certainly explain how come she strayed from her original designs - because something other than "Memories leak in, Xion's looks change appropriately" happened, being that Memories she had were altered, thus making her behavior be unpredictable.

Personally, I don't think Namine painted over the Memories. I think it makes more sense for her to have detached the Memories and put new ones in. But that is a possibility I'm willing to humor, especially since Xion, at her core, was supposed to have replicated Memories from Sora the rest of his Memories joined up with later. So I wouldn't put it beyond Namine changing both the original as well as the replica, hence changing Xion in the process.

[Tiax]

Originally Posted by Smile

So Xion looks like Kairi because that's the base Namine delinked in Sora's Memories for her.
It makes sense that Namine and Riku would see Kairi on her too, seeing how they both know/are related to Kairi.

But Axel's got me thinking.
He never even met Kairi, let alone had the capability to relate to her inside Sora's Memories.
On the other hand, he not only met Namine, but he comments about the similarity constantly in his reports, and Saix went as far as to joke about how Namine and Xion both are Axel's favorite people.

So if Roxas and Axel both see Xion in the same way, not to mention Riku and Namine who obviously know Namine - I have to wonder if Xion really is "based" on Kairi. By the time Sora forgot Kairi, he also remembered Namine, making for rather an interesting mix-up.
The mess Namine made with the Memories of herself and Kairi would certainly explain lots of things, and Memories of Kairi could leak out along with the rest of them.
With how Sora treated Namine in CoM, it certainly would add up a lot more that Xion's based on her if she's based on Sora's MIP, rather than Kairi whose importance to Sora is still debatable despite it all.
Would also tie in with Xion having Sora's Memories of CO.

Lol. Maybe Riku saw Namine when he unhooded Xion in Beast's Castle? Could be why he stopped by TLTW - to see if everything was alright.

Just some random ponderings. Enjoy bitching about this.

Xion looks like Kairi because Kairi is the most important thing to Sora...or so I've been told.

Why Axel sees her as herself confuses me, too... @_@;

[*TwilightNight*]

I could've sworn I read in an interview on Nomura that Axel sees Xion that way through connection with Roxas in how he sees "her". I need to recheck.

[Raz]

Originally Posted by *TwilightNight*

I could've sworn I read in an interview on Nomura that Axel sees Xion that way through connection with Roxas in how he sees "her". I need to recheck.

No, you're right. Axel sees Xion through Roxas, viewing her as he views her.

[Smile]

Originally Posted by Raz

No, you're right. Axel sees Xion through Roxas, viewing her as he views her.

The thing is, I'd love to hear a proper explanation beyond that, though. Especially with Axel going "she looks like Namine" all the time and the comparisons drawn between the two girls when Axel is concerned.

They see her based on their relation to her. Xion originally was a "friend of a friend", so it would add up he sees her as Roxas does, yes.
It's a lame explanation if ever I heard one, though :\

[*TwilightNight*]

Originally Posted by Raz

No, you're right. Axel sees Xion through Roxas, viewing her as he views her.

Oh, okay. Good then. I need to really stash those interviews, however, in case they are ever needed.

Originally Posted by Smile

The thing is, I'd love to hear a proper explanation beyond that, though. Especially with Axel going "she looks like Namine" all the time and the comparisons drawn between the two girls when Axel is concerned.

The only time he mentioned it as far as I know is in his Secret Report when he saw Xion's face. With good reason. The only of the Kairis he's seen before that was Naminé, so the comparison would be present, and he would go by that when analyzing the two. So it's not absurd to connect it to the only other relation of the same looking girl he knows. Especially since they were both born (well, one born, the other created) in Castle Oblivion. And that's where most of the research and answers will be, and why he explored it. Now, in terms of what Saïx meant, his words are not exactly the best to go by. When he said that they were his "two favorite people" it almost sounded like cynical sarcasm. More so, considering how Axel let Naminé escape (didn't Saïx also mentioned that in a previous conversation in the beginning?), which is what I think he was hinting at. Unless Axel has been sharing things with him, which is doubtful, considering they were breaking apart, Saïx had no reason to assume anything about Axel's relationships, except Xion's or Roxas's, which was more outwardly seen due to the circumstances, obviously. Axel and Naminé only truly bonded around KH2 when they went off together.

They see her based on their relation to her. Xion originally was a "friend of a friend", so it would add up he sees her as Roxas does, yes.
It's a lame explanation if ever I heard one, though :\

It's Nomura.

[Smile]

Actually, he mentioned the similarity to Namine under several occasions in the reports.
And at one point - Kairi o.O which made me go "o,oa" at first, but then I remembered it's probably after he read Vexen's report about her, so that could've been it.

And I don't think Nomura was that bad at explaining things thus far. For the most part :\

[8298906]

Riku - the main person with strong bonds to sora because he was soras first BFF so see xion as sora that is why he was freaked out when he saw xions face.

Namine and Kairi - kairi bond to sora isn't as strong as Rikus is so if Kairi had met Xion she two would have saw xion as Xion thus is why Namine see Xion as Xion

Roxas & Axel - as Axel and Roxas are Xions close friends they see her as herself

so if your a long friend of soras like riku you see xion as sora but if you are just a close friend like Kairi you'll see her as herself but if you are XIONS close friend you see xion as xion.
so it all depends on were your friendship with sora and xion is. on friend you'll see her as a hooded Doll

[Smile]

Originally Posted by 8298906

Riku - the main person with strong bonds to sora because he was soras first BFF so see xion as sora that is why he was freaked out when he saw xions face.

Originally Posted by Riku

I don't know who you're supposed to be

I think he'd have had the answer to that if he'd have seen Sora's face (unless someone wants to tell me that line was butchered in the localization).
That's one. Two would be that we'd have to hear why he later saw her as Kairi.
I think he saw the blank face, and then the Kairi going by what Namine told him.

Roxas & Axel - as Axel and Roxas are Xions close friends they see her as herself

*facepalms* what part of "she had no self to speak of" isn't getting through? :\ her face was blank, and then depending on who you are, you saw something else on her (if you were lucky). Roxas would see Namine/Kairi going by what went on in CoM. Axel would see, going by Nomura - someone who Roxas saw as well, but he talked about how Xion and Namine look alike, so it makes one wonder if the one he saw wasn't in fact Namine and not Kairi.

so if your a long friend of soras like riku you see xion as sora but if you are just a close friend like Kairi you'll see her as herself but if you are XIONS close friend you see xion as xion.

Actually, Kairi is the one described to be a long lasting friend for Sora, indicating she just knew him for long but wasn't all that close. Riku was the one always described as best friend.

so it all depends on were your friendship with sora and xion is. on friend you'll see her as a hooded Doll

I fail to see what the point of your post was, really.