roxas' tears

[alex=axel]

hey
im wondering, whats the deal with roxas crying? i thought nobody's couldnt feel, meaning they cant cry, so wtf?

:O crazy theories!

[∞]

It seems that Roxas' borrows Sora's emotional capacity while the latter is asleep, which is how his 'emotions' seem so real.

[Smile]

I'd hardly go as far as that.
There's all but nothing really hinting such a 'borrowing'. I'd sooner blame it on the Memories Roxas had or him having a Heart of his own than him using Sora's Heart (even though that would tie in nicely with Namine as well as far as being capable of feeling goes. However - theory only for now).
Roxas cried at points in time in the game where it was called for. Like when he dreamed about Riku snatching the Keyblade from Sora. The Memory carried with it how to cry, and Roxas went along with it.
By the end of the game with Xion disappearing, he just about had all the Memories of Sora that went on between him and Xion. I'd say he was pretty damn capable of pulling it off on his own, without needing Sora's Heart.

[Chaos_Riku]

he also was capable to gain friend, to love and hate, sadness, and many different aspects of having a heart. Roxas was a special Nobody and could even cry when he felt sad...but then did not understand what the wetness was (I would have loved a 'why am I leaking?')

[Zemnas]

Or perhaps it was just another event that we are meant to speculate because Nomura just loves doing that to us...

[XYZ]

Roxas shows emotion before Sora is put to sleep. Like when Axel leaves for Castle Oblivion. Although Roxas does not cry, he has a 'lump' in his throat and cannot stop worrying about Axel, and at the same time does not understand what he is feeling and why. And then when he hears that all of the members sent to Castle Oblivion were eliminated, he is deeply depressed. Upon Axel's return, Roxas is relieved and happy to see his friend again. Not to mention his throat lump goes away.

I feel that there is sufficient evidence to support that Roxas and Sora share Sora's heart because they are the same person, but no one wants to agree.

There's a scene in Kingdom Hearts II: Final Mix+ in which Axel and Naminé come the an agreement that Roxas has a heart.

[Smile]

Originally Posted by Zemnas

Or perhaps it was just another event that we are meant to speculate because Nomura just loves doing that to us...

He doesn't do it without reason. If he wants us to speculate it's on something he has an answer to, as half assed as it can be.

Originally Posted by XYZ

Roxas shows emotion before Sora is put to sleep. Like when Axel leaves for Castle Oblivion. Although Roxas does not cry, he has a 'lump' in his throat and cannot stop worrying about Axel, and at the same time does not understand what he is feeling and why. And then when he hears that all of the members sent to Castle Oblivion were eliminated, he is deeply depressed. Upon Axel's return, Roxas is relieved and happy to see his friend again. Not to mention his throat lump goes away.

I feel that there is sufficient evidence to support that Roxas and Sora share Sora's heart because they are the same person, but no one wants to agree.

That's sufficient evidence Roxas can feel :\ Sora still being awake during that time could possibly actually be counter evidence to Roxas using his Heart as when they did 'share' a Heart in KH2, Sora was feeling it well enough but nothing of that sort up to then.

There's a scene in Kingdom Hearts II: Final Mix+ in which Axel and Naminé come the an agreement that Roxas has a heart.

Uh, no. There's a scene in the FM+ where Axel asks Roxas if he has a Heart, and if whether or not he himself and Namine truly lack it.

[XYZ]

Originally Posted by Smile

Uh, no. There's a scene in the FM+ where Axel asks Roxas if he has a Heart, and if whether or not he himself and Namine truly lack it.

Yeah, I mixed two scenes together, my bad.

Or did I? Isn't there a scene, maybe a talk bubble scene, with just Axel and Naminé and they talk about what a wonder Roxas was. And I think one of them mentions his heart. I might just want to remember it. I don't really know.

[Allister Rose]

i'm guessing Roxas is connected to sora's heart. therefore he can feel all the emotions even though they arent really "inside' him.

easy to explain and very possible

[Igshar]

My question is this:

When and where was it officially confirmed that one needs a Heart in the KH Universe to have feelings?

Axel also had feelings towards Roxas throughout the game. Saix clearly felt betrayed by Axel. Xigbar cares about Roxas' future. Demyx seems to feel afraid of fighting particularly tough Heartless.

I've never bought the idea of them needing Hearts to feel. A being with absolutely no emotion would be completely different than the Organization members.

Xemnas even shows emotions at the end of Kingdom Hearts II. He has joy over Kingdom Hearts, for example.

Envy would factor into emotions, too, I feel, and Marluxia clearly envies the Keyblade.

Can you be pissed off and angry all the time without feelings? (Larxene)


Tch, to say that a Heart is required to feel is to be ignorant to the Organization and how they act. I agree that Roxas' emotions are oftentimes more potent than the other Members', but that could simply be because he's such a new being that he has yet to be conditioned under the ruse of "Nobodies cannot feel."

[Mister E]

In regards to how the other members act, I recall hearing that they were only acting upon emotions as they remembered them, and weren't actually "feeling" them, so to speak. I always though it was kinda odd though, because Axel seems genuinely emotional at points in KH2, as well as other points mentioned above.

As for Roxas, I guess he somehow retains some semblance of a heart due to the way he was created.

[Igshar]

Originally Posted by Mister E

In regards to how the other members act, I recall hearing that they were only acting upon emotions as they remembered them, and weren't actually "feeling" them, so to speak. I always though it was kinda odd though, because Axel seems genuinely emotional at points in KH2, as well as other points mentioned above.

As for Roxas, I guess he somehow retains some semblance of a heart due to the way he was created.

Chain of Memories states that the Memories are directly connected to the Heart. If we are to take this at face value, then the fact the Org Members can remember their human selves means that they have Hearts.

This all leads to lots of inconsistencies, meaning the characters in the games really seem to have no idea what a Heart actually is and what it is responsible for. Nobodies, who lack Hearts, can feel and remember (or even simply remember how to feel) without the base object which has been said to be necessary for either of those two actions by multiple in-game people.

I think I remember a scene where Axel explained why/how they were able to have Memories, but I don't remember what exactly he said. No matter what it was, if it didn't imply that they had Hearts, it effectively retconned CoM, no?

[Zero Sora]

When and where was it officially confirmed that one needs a Heart in the KH Universe to have feelings?

Yen Sid - "Nobodies may seem to have feelings, but this is a ruse---they only pretend to have hearts. You must not be deceived!"

This all leads to lots of inconsistencies, meaning the characters in the games really seem to have no idea what a Heart actually is and what it is responsible for. Nobodies, who lack Hearts, can feel and remember (or even simply remember how to feel) without the base object which has been said to be necessary for either of those two actions by multiple in-game people.

When a person becomes a Heartless, the memories disappear into darkness and are transferred over to the Nobody. Just because the memories are connected to the Heart doesn't mean they aren't connected to the rest of a person's being.

[Smile]

Originally Posted by Zero Sora

When a person becomes a Heartless, the memories disappear into darkness and are transferred over to the Nobody. Just because the memories are connected to the Heart doesn't mean they aren't connected to the rest of a person's being.

This in a nutshell. Think about a massive piece of play-dough. You can shape it in whichever way you like.
Think of the Chains of Memories as what shapes the lump of play-dough that is your Heart. Remove the chains and your Heart loses its shape, resulting in Repliku "breaking apart" until Namine pieced him back together, and Zombie Nobodies like Roxas and Xion who had nothing to go by, lacking Memories.
That is not to say that having Memories is the equivalent of having a Heart, however. They have the same shape as what shaped their play-dough, but without the play-dough itself. They go by how they're 'used to'.

[Mister E]

If it is the case that Nobodies are just acting on emotions upon what they recall from their past lives, they can be compared to philosophical zombies. Beings who act as if they possess genuine emotion, but truly experience no such things. Of course, the Organisation members have the difference of being able to act on what they've "felt" in their past lives.

Xion and Roxas, as has been said above, didn't have any memories of emotion to act on, so simply didn't express anything at all.