Official PVP Rules Discussion

[Raeneth]

So after our first Turf Contest D and I definitely decided we need some strict rules going on for our official PvP bouts, as having hour long matches is pretty draining, especially when we need to go through a ton of them. So we decided that we'd try and make a blanket set of rules for all PvP Fights that will be Inferno team Sanctioned (Aka Turf Fights/Tournaments/etc)

However instead of slamming the gauntlet down and hearing everyone cry about it, we figured that we should all come up with the rules together :3 Here are some of the rules that D and I were discussing as possibly making official:

• Half Hour battles at the longest. If a victor isn't reached clearly by knockout or forfeit then an official decision will be reached.
• No potions allowed in battles. Ethers are okay. Food and combined potions are not allowed.
• No equipment may be used from the Banned Equipment list.
• No glitched stats are allowed. No battle may start while one member knows that he/she or his/her teammate/opponents are glitched.
• Speed Cap of 15 [In Chapter 1]

Also some ideas I've been thinking about:

• Outlaw Cure/Regen/Leaf Bracer/Potions/Food/ANYTHING other than a spell (Raise) in bringing back K.O.'d party members. Raise would heal a flat 25 health and perhaps a tiny five point regen over three turns to help keep the player alive until they can make an action. Would be a 2 Mana spell.
• for large 4v4+ fights outlawing revival of K.O.'d members.

Please add any other rules we're thinking of adding, D.

Members, please post your opinions on these rules and make suggestions. We're going to try and test run of these rules for this weekend' Turf contest. All applicants please PM your names/Stats to D or/and myself in order to be in.

Templar Knights are not allowed to participate.
ES must sit one of their two members who participated last time
SOLDIER must sit one of their two members who participated last time.

Thanks :D

[Ukrany]

Originally Posted by Raeneth

• Outlaw Cure/Regen/Leaf Bracer/Potions/Food/ANYTHING other than a spell (Raise) in bringing back K.O.'d party members. Raise would heal a flat 25 health and perhaps a tiny five point regen over three turns to help keep the player alive until they can make an action. Would be a 2 Mana spell.
• for large 4v4+ fights outlawing revival of K.O.'d members.

Finally a Raise/Revive spell instead of bringing back peepz by stuffing their mouths with rice balls Yay :D. Still i think the regen point is unnecessary. If u know the player will die when u revive why waste the 2MP points, we should think carefully if we were gonan use it, and if well be ina tight spot, better not to let the player die.

[Avalon]

I'd honestly prefer there to be no ethers. If you think about it, that's what made the battles so much longer then they needed to be. People weren't mana charging and taking the turn the get MP back and were just using ethers and gaining all their MP back. At least with mana charge only they have to be smart with MP usage.

I like the idea of Raise to be honest. It does seem a bit nice. I was worried about Regen coming into the mix next chapter. 10 or so turns of 8 HP? Yea.. that might be a bit chaotic. Raise seems nice and the little HP healing over 3 turns is good too. It's moreso good for those who are being double turned and they still get a chance to fight back and last a double turn.

I also half want a Str/Mag cap. Nothing too low. But battles were two members just go 15 speed and the rest to str would be rather annoying since they could do a nice bit of damage. I'd like it to be 20 str and mag cap. Making people put points elsewhere. Making them come up with a strategy so to say.

After chapter 2 is released and there will be turfs for it. I do want there to still be 2 on 2. But I'm not sure how that would work out. I know Rae said he didn't like pets being able to heal and just be a healer. So I doubt they would having a healing spell like last time. So two on two wouldn't be so bad. But I might like it to be 1 on 1. It all depends on how the pets/allies are and how they can do in a fight. Since they may not be able to heal, it might make battles much quicker so 2 on 2 is still very possible.

With official decisions on who the winner is in matches.. I honestly think it should be who gets the most KO's in the fight. If SOLDIER and BAD went against each other and it lasted the 30 minutes, the squad that killed the others squads members the most should win. But that's just me. Of course, BAD can kill SOLDIER's members 100 times, and SOLDIER right at the end of battle kills one of theirs and has the other at mid HP and is near death but the battle is called. SOLDIER would have the win in that situation. But if it's just a back and forth healing and attacking spree like we had in the last turf, I think KO's should be counted and determine the winner. Just throwing a thought out there.

Might edit or post more later.

[Raeneth]

Originally Posted by Ukrany

Finally a Raise/Revive spell instead of bringing back peepz by stuffing their mouths with rice balls Yay :D. Still i think the regen point is unnecessary. If u know the player will die when u revive why waste the 2MP points, we should think carefully if we were gonan use it, and if well be ina tight spot, better not to let the player die.

The five health over a few turns is so they're not insta killed again and again, making reviving them useless.

Originally Posted by Kaizer

I'd honestly prefer there to be no ethers. If you think about it, that's what made the battles so much longer then they needed to be. People weren't mana charging and taking the turn the get MP back and were just using ethers and gaining all their MP back. At least with mana charge only they have to be smart with MP usage.

This is a pretty valid point. Mana Charge D said made the battles last too long, but no ethers will definitely determine a winner much quicker... maybe.

I like the idea of Raise to be honest. It does seem a bit nice. I was worried about Regen coming into the mix next chapter. 10 or so turns of 8 HP? Yea.. that might be a bit chaotic. Raise seems nice and the little HP healing over 3 turns is good too. It's moreso good for those who are being double turned and they still get a chance to fight back and last a double turn.

It's so easy to deal enough damage to kill someone through a regen (with magic) but yeah. If Raise comes out you won't be allowed to Regen someone back to life. Regen will be helpful in keeping people around though. 2 MP a cast adds up as well. Raise would heal flat Health of about 25, so it brings you back, but won't fully heal you (Arise would be used in that form). I think adding it as a pure PvP Art (probably not as useful as Leaf Bracer or Curing a downed ally in a boss fight) would really make things more interesting. Plus those who want to revive "legitimately" would be able to.

I also half want a Str/Mag cap. Nothing too low. But battles were two members just go 15 speed and the rest to str would be rather annoying since they could do a nice bit of damage. I'd like it to be 20 str and mag cap. Making people put points elsewhere. Making them come up with a strategy so to say.

So you just have people at strength and speed cap duking it out. Besides, there were three different strategies employed. We'll change things as we see fit. People start abusing stuff, things will happen.

After chapter 2 is released and there will be turfs for it. I do want there to still be 2 on 2. But I'm not sure how that would work out. I know Rae said he didn't like pets being able to heal and just be a healer. So I doubt they would having a healing spell like last time. So two on two wouldn't be so bad. But I might like it to be 1 on 1. It all depends on how the pets/allies are and how they can do in a fight. Since they may not be able to heal, it might make battles much quicker so 2 on 2 is still very possible.

Two on Two turns into Four on Four, which is pretty intense if you ask me. Might be interesting. We'll have to give that a shot and see what to do from there. I do want to keep the "Squad" Idea over the individuals. Squad > Individuals.

With official decisions on who the winner is in matches.. I honestly think it should be who gets the most KO's in the fight.

I wanted to think of a variety of different criteria. K.O.'s was definitely one. If it's an even fight and one side is legit K.O.'ing the other squad a lot and they're on the defensive the whole time, well that's a clear win. in ties though I wouldn't wanna see redos. I'd want to see like... I dunno... teamwork. That would be a deciding score. The team that worked best together. Played off of each other. Not just acted individually. TK versus SOLDIER at the end. I mean watching Iggy and Axie work as if they were one person was really amazing. Fay and Ven did very well for themselves too, and even though Iggy was killed a bunch, I'd still give them the win because of how well they worked together to dominate.

K.O.'s, Teamwork, and... something. This way if one team wins the K.O.'s, and one wins the Teamwork, a deciding third would do it.

[Mike]

When exactly do the applications have to be sent in by to be in the Event? It says June 26th to June 28th on the Event Board, but I just want to know exactly what date they have to be in by.

[Xuan]

So if it's about PvP battle discussion, I suggest that we put a limit cap on the times of Healing Spells can be used. For example Cure can be used only 3 times, Leaf Bracer 2 times, I don't have sufficient knowledge about stats changing spells (Iron Guard) whether they will affect battle to be dragged long enough.

Putting a limit cap on STR or MAG will lengthen the battle, but I suppose if to make it more challenging it is necessary?

[Igshar]

Originally Posted by Xuan

So if it's about PvP battle discussion, I suggest that we put a limit cap on the times of Healing Spells can be used. For example Cure can be used only 3 times, Leaf Bracer 2 times, I don't have sufficient knowledge about stats changing spells (Iron Guard) whether they will affect battle to be dragged long enough.

What would be the point of this? O-o Instituting a cap on casts of healing spells essentially makes battles... stupid. Every battle would be done fast, but that limit would remove a MASSIVE portion of strategy, basically saying "the best and only good strategy is to go high Spd+Str and kill them before they kill you, since you can only heal yourselves twice anyway." It would destroy strategies. The "limit" on healing relies solely on that stat called... OMG... Magic Points. (also sometimes called Mana) It's an amazing concept.

Also, another question... If we'd be disallowed to revive people with Cure/Leaf Bracer, what's the point of limiting the use of them to keep our friends alive?

Putting a limit cap on STR or MAG will lengthen the battle, but I suppose if to make it more challenging it is necessary?

There honestly is no need for a STR/MAG cap. If you go with 14/15 speed, you can't get much more than 20 Strength anyway.


On to my actual point. When they're introduced, I make a motion to "ban" Pets/Allies from the turf battles. Why? Some may end up being much more or less useful than others in PvP fights first off and we'd probably always see Player1 + Player2 + 2X v Player3 + Player 4 + 2X where X is that one omnipotent Pet/Ally.

It's easy to do. The Players can choose to disown the Pet/Ally (oh noes. I need to waste my time which would otherwise be spent farming leveling up a new Pet again. Yuck) or the RPG Admins (Rae+D) can simply 0 out the Max and Current HP on the 4 Pets/Allies competing, essentially removing them from combat. At the same time, they can easily then make the Pets/Allies all have

Speed = (MaxSpd - 1) / 2 + 1

Aka: (15 - 1) / 2 + 1 = 8

That would cause their dead turns to NOT interfere with the turn order established by the players in the battle. That or, if 0 Speed is never fixed, they can be given simply 0, which would also cancel all double turns. If anyone attempts to skirt the system it will be obvious, since the Pet would be alive in the battle. >_> The players also would be unable to heal them, since they'd have a maximum of 0 HP. :P If someone messes up and casts a healing spell on a dead Pet, it's their own fault for failing so hard. :0 Easiest way to avoid it is to just suck it up and disown your Pets/Allies and re-obtain them. Perhaps the players who opt to take that route can then be reimbursed for their disowned Pets (though guaranteed not necessary, since the value of the Pets in the store will likely NOT be enough to break anyone's wallet)

This would just be a means to prevent crazy 4v4 battles in the coming chapters. :\ Granted, the Pets will add a whole new dimension to strategy, but... I feel personally, that a Squad v Squad fight should come down to the people, not their noble steeds. D:

[Xuan]

It would be very confusing anyway, 4v4 + pets. >_>

[k77k]

Originally Posted by Igshar

It's easy to do. The Players can choose to disown the Pet/Ally (oh noes. I need to waste my time which would otherwise be spent farming leveling up a new Pet again. Yuck) or the RPG Admins (Rae+D) can simply 0 out the Max and Current HP on the 4 Pets/Allies competing, essentially removing them from combat. At the same time, they can easily then make the Pets/Allies all have

Both of those options seem like quite a lot of work for either the player who has to disown him and retrain him, or the mods who have to individually change every pet. Since we have no bread, why not just let them eat cake? Two should take care of them, and the side effects can easily corrected after the match.

[The Enigmatic Man]

Originally Posted by k77k

Both of those options seem like quite a lot of work for either the player who has to disown him and retrain him, or the mods who have to individually change every pet. Since we have no bread, why not just let them eat cake? Two should take care of them, and the side effects can easily corrected after the match.

Dropping stats to 0 and restoring them back isn't as hard as you think. All you have to do is screen cap the current stats so you can correctly restore the pet back to normal afterwards. Easy work, trust me...Lulz.

[Ukrany]

Originally Posted by Igshar

On to my actual point. When they're introduced, I make a motion to "ban" Pets/Allies from the turf battles. Why? Some may end up being much more or less useful than others in PvP fights first off and we'd probably always see Player1 + Player2 + 2X v Player3 + Player 4 + 2X where X is that one omnipotent Pet/Ally...

W8 isnt this a bit too soon? I understand the last pvp matches were quite long, but i believe the already presented limitations will reduce greatly the time for a pvp. Why not let players react to them, maybe they could bring some more fun into a pvp battle. Besides we cant just rule out every new little thing that comes out. Dun wanna get stuck with spam attack/arts until everybody is dead. If its a part of the pve system why not see if it works with the pvp system too, if theyre abused...well whatever xD

[Igshar]

Originally Posted by Xuan

It would be very confusing anyway, 4v4 + pets. >_>

... 4v4: P1+P2 v P3+P4

Player 1
Pet of Player 1
Player 2
Pet of Player 2

versus

Player 3
Pet of Player 3
Player 4
Pet of Player 4


4v4.

Originally Posted by k77k

Both of those options seem like quite a lot of work for either the player who has to disown him and retrain him, or the mods who have to individually change every pet. Since we have no bread, why not just let them eat cake? Two should take care of them, and the side effects can easily corrected after the match.

Hm. That way works just as well. =X Just need to be sure your pet has at least 8 speed before the fight so that they don't screw with turn orders. Oh, and not everyone has access to cake (such as myself >.> ) Then again, anyone in chapter two would have access... and only those in chapter 2 would have access to Pets/Allies... So nevermind. =X

Originally Posted by The Enigmatic Man

Dropping stats to 0 and restoring them back isn't as hard as you think. All you have to do is screen cap the current stats so you can correctly restore the pet back to normal afterwards. Easy work, trust me...Lulz.

Easier way to change them back is to move 1 AP on the Pet's stats after the fight. :3 It all gets re-calculated when you move 1 AP. >.> But yeah, it isn't really all that difficult to do. :3

[Raeneth]

Y'know Cake might actually be the best idea. Chomp two of those down and your ally will be more than dead. Also it can be provided free of charge from your friendly neighborhood DRaeneth

Also, in response to Mike's question:

Just try and get the participants names/stats in by the end of tomorrow/today (Friday) so we can haphazardly set up another rag tag turf event for Saturday/Sunday. Figure that we'll go with the same time as the Deep Jungle one. I'll just make a copy of the thread and post it up in a second.

[Igshar]

Originally Posted by Raeneth

I'll just make a copy of the thread and post it up in a second.

lol copypasta. Delicious.

So you agree that Pets/Allies should be held out of the battles? =X Also, wouldn't giving out Cake be harder for you guys than changing the HP to 0/0? >.>

[Axel Ryman]

Should just have them escape from battle, this way someone doesn't accidentally use Raise or any healing spell on them.