Chapter 2 Wishlist

[TheJudicer]

Originally Posted by Iggy

Like Sam said, with just 3 questions with 3 answers each (not very hard to input, but very time consuming), you'd end up with 27 different spells that could be obtained.

That's a concept of Algorithmic process called "complexity", if anyone's interested.
With a process like this, if you double the amount of choices you would square the number of 'calculations' (AKA Work that Rea has to do!).

But srsly.

I love the idea, and with the use of the 'illusion of choice' it'd work a treat =P
Though part of me would love the idea that in just 3 questions I'd have the chance to get one of 27 things...

[Igshar]

Originally Posted by TheJudicer

That's a concept of Algorithmic process called "complexity", if anyone's interested.
With a process like this, if you double the amount of choices you would square the number of 'calculations' (AKA Work that Rea has to do!).

Or you could just skip the formality of defining what it is and use common sense. >_> I has 3 choices then 3 choices then 3 choices. 3x3x3=27. Basic math win.

I love the idea, and with the use of the 'illusion of choice' it'd work a treat =P
Though part of me would love the idea that in just 3 questions I'd have the chance to get one of 27 things...

Honestly, I'd love to see the 3 question-27 spell handout, but I know Rae would never want to implement anything of that sort. Too much work. xD

It also might be better to make it something more like 3 different choices on the type of spell you'd want (Physical, Magical, Speedy) and from there it then goes into three questions, each with two answers. o.o Something like choosing between Str and Dex, then between Def and Str/Dex (one you DIDN'T pick first time) and then choosing between Mag/Spr as the stat to be cut by the spell for the Physical choices.

This would give out three possible combinations of positive effects (Str+Dex, Str+Def, Def+Dex) with a possibility of 2 negatives; 6 in total. Times 3 and it gives 18 different spells which would be made for it. >.>; Still quite a lot, but considerably less than 27.

[Ukrany]

Originally Posted by Igshar

It also might be better to make it something more like 3 different choices on the type of spell you'd want (Physical, Magical, Speedy) and from there it then goes into three questions, each with two answers. o.o Something like choosing between Str and Dex, then between Def and Str/Dex (one you DIDN'T pick first time) and then choosing between Mag/Spr as the stat to be cut by the spell for the Physical choices.

This would give out three possible combinations of positive effects (Str+Dex, Str+Def, Def+Dex) with a possibility of 2 negatives; 6 in total. Times 3 and it gives 18 different spells which would be made for it. >.>; Still quite a lot, but considerably less than 27.

OR u could ask 3 questions then another 3, THEN another 3...and select the spell randomly from a group of 5~6... lol thats the beauty of programming, the possibilities are infinte, u will only come to a conclusion once u decide wot u want and how u want it. Still...i think its better to create the spells first, since thats the most lame and tedious part, and then make up ur own algorithm for choosing among them. No use thinking of the better way to select between then, if u dont knnow how many they are...xD

[TheJudicer]

Originally Posted by Ukrany

OR u could ask 3 questions then another 3, THEN another 3...and select the spell randomly from a group of 5~6... lol thats the beauty of programming, the possibilities are infinte, u will only come to a conclusion once u decide wot u want and how u want it. Still...i think its better to create the spells first, since thats the most lame and tedious part, and then make up ur own algorithm for choosing among them. No use thinking of the better way to select between then, if u dont knnow how many they are...xD

Yes, but that would mean you'd have to make 27 different spells, with 27 different lines of conversation and a choosing algorithm (Which I don't really see the point of...).
Like we're saying, it's gunna be a shedload of work just to program one of these things.

Originally Posted by Iggy

Basic math win.

Haha, yeah =P Just illustrating that the growth is exponential.
Meaning the amount of work Rea has to do is squared/cubed when the amount of choices is doubled/tripled. =]

[Ukrany]

Originally Posted by TheJudicer

Yes, but that would mean you'd have to make 27 different spells, with 27 different lines of conversation and a choosing algorithm (Which I don't really see the point of...).
Like we're saying, it's gunna be a shedload of work just to program one of these things.


Haha, yeah =P Just illustrating that the growth is exponential.
Meaning the amount of work Rea has to do is squared/cubed when the amount of choices is doubled/tripled. =]

No...i mean, u do the questions, but they dont afect the spell ur gonna give at all lol. Like the spell is given at random, u just ask the questions to give an illusion that it was choosable.
Btw where are u getting the exponential? Has i said, the number of spells inst directly afected by the number of questions/possible answers, yet even if it was, how do u call it exponential?

[Raeneth]

Originally Posted by Ukrany

No...i mean, u do the questions, but they dont afect the spell ur gonna give at all lol.

Then why would I bother coding something that doesn't even matter? Some sort of sick joke?

Btw where are u getting the exponential? Has i said, the number of spells inst directly afected by the number of questions/possible answers, yet even if it was, how do u call it exponential?

Miscommunication between you and the others. You're saying there's a set five-six spells that doesn't matter what people pick, which is essentially what I was talking about when I posted in responce to this insanity.

The others are saying the choices you make would lead you (if not directly effect) the outcome of what spell is made. Basically if it was a custom spell to even a small degree there needs to be a myriad of choices to pick from all of which will lead to spells. Blah blah blah Strength option plus defense option = STR and DEF spell and other shit. More questions = More Spells. Maybe one raises higher than the other or some shit. It's too time consuming and flat out pointless to do much of anything discussed on this issue apart from what I said. Even then there needs to be a REASON to give out such a spell.

We're creating a world, not a game. Things need to make sense. If they don't make sense, then there's no point in my opinion.

[Ukrany]

Originally Posted by Raeneth

Then why would I bother coding something that doesn't even matter? Some sort of sick joke?

Miscommunication between you and the others. You're saying there's a set five-six spells that doesn't matter what people pick, which is essentially what I was talking about when I posted in responce to this insanity.

The others are saying the choices you make would lead you (if not directly effect) the outcome of what spell is made. Basically if it was a custom spell to even a small degree there needs to be a myriad of choices to pick from all of which will lead to spells. Blah blah blah Strength option plus defense option = STR and DEF spell and other shit. More questions = More Spells. Maybe one raises higher than the other or some shit. It's too time consuming and flat out pointless to do much of anything discussed on this issue apart from what I said. Even then there needs to be a REASON to give out such a spell.

We're creating a world, not a game. Things need to make sense. If they don't make sense, then there's no point in my opinion.

We're creating a world, not a game. Things need to make sense. If they don't make sense, then there's no point in my opinion.

Creating the illusion that the player actually choose the spell, when it was random. Just to make it clearer that the amount of question/answers doesnt directly affect the number of diferent spells. Simple, u can ask all the question u want, and yet if u have 5~6 spells given at random it could be easily done, simple the person who did the questions will feel his work wwnt to garbage.

Actually, i was asking how doubling the choices could increase the diferente possible answers exponencially. Yes, it is true that the possible answers increase, but not exponencially. Taking Iggy example: 3*3*3=27 / 6*6*6=216 ->i dont see any exponencially. Yet if he meant adding another question, thast a diferente matter: 3*3*3=27 / 3*3*3*3=81 ->this is in fact an exponencial algorithm.

Customize the players isnt senseless enough?

[Axel Ryman]

Am I the only one who thinks Ukrany is complicating things to try and prove himself right?

Originally Posted by Ukrany

Creating the illusion that the player actually choose the spell, when it was random. Just to make it clearer that the amount of question/answers doesnt directly affect the number of diferent spells. Simple, u can ask all the question u want, and yet if u have 5~6 spells given at random it could be easily done, simple the person who did the questions will feel his work wwnt to garbage.

Why give the Inferno team so much work for nothing? If they're gonna do work, at least give them a reason for it. If its going to be only 5-6 spells, then make enough questions for 5-6 spells.

Actually, i was asking how doubling the choices could increase the diferente possible answers exponencially. Yes, it is true that the possible answers increase, but not exponencially. Taking Iggy example: 3*3*3=27 / 6*6*6=216 ->i dont see any exponencially. Yet if he meant adding another question, thast a diferente matter: 3*3*3=27 / 3*3*3*3=81 ->this is in fact an exponencial algorithm.

Customize the players isnt senseless enough?

Exponentially is of or relating to Exponents. 3*3*3 = 27 is an exponent function known as 3³. Care to explain how 3³ and 6³ are not exponential? And that wasn't what Iggy was saying. You need to read it more to actually get what he said.

[Raeneth]

Originally Posted by Ukrany

Creating the illusion that the player actually choose the spell, when it was random. Just to make it clearer that the amount of question/answers doesnt directly affect the number of diferent spells. Simple, u can ask all the question u want, and yet if u have 5~6 spells given at random it could be easily done, simple the person who did the questions will feel his work wwnt to garbage.

You can't "randomly" give out anything. There is no "give random" stuff to work with in the ACP. I was trying to say you're right, and now I'm going to say that you're wrong and what you are suggesting cannot work.

Actually, i was asking how doubling the choices could increase the diferente possible answers exponencially. Yes, it is true that the possible answers increase, but not exponencially. Taking Iggy example: 3*3*3=27 / 6*6*6=216 ->i dont see any exponencially. Yet if he meant adding another question, thast a diferente matter: 3*3*3=27 / 3*3*3*3=81 ->this is in fact an exponencial algorithm.

3 rounds of questions with 3 possible answers. 3 questions [round 1] * 3 questions [round 2] * 3 questions [round 3] = 27 possible outcomes. Basic math.
Doubling the answers per round would do nothing other than what you said: 6*6*6 = 216 possible ways for the player to answer.

Three cubed is 27. Three cubed is 3*3*3. Three to the fourth is 3*3*3*3. These are exponents. These are exponential equations. Your two examples are showing the exact same thing and yet you say one is exponential and the other isn't. I don't understand you. ._.

Customize the players isnt senseless enough?

? senseless? Nothing is put into the Inferno without a purpose. I don't throw shit at people just so they can be "customized" at all. Ever. I give you options, but those options aren't final. No, customizing players for shits and giggles is senseless and therefore not something I'm interested in.

Now if it was a dark/light spell that you get to choose from, then this makes sense to me. Doing it for the fuck of it is flat out stupid and a waste of time.

Originally Posted by Magus Fitzgerald

Am I the only one who thinks Ukrany is complicating things to try and prove himself right?

You are not alone, pup.

[luna_diviner]

Iggy's idea might be the better of all suggested; or perhaps a variation on it: First and/or second question gives a basic piece of Chapter equipment, then second and/or third question will decide on the spell buff. Effectively cuts the choices down to only twelve (9 and 3, either way you cut it). Basically an implementation from the original sword/shield/staff questions, but as a fluid change instead of hard stat. Just a idea, so feel free to shoot it down. :)

Random question @anyone in the know: Has there been a timeframe for Chapter 2 release? Last I heard it was sometime in July, maybe August. Anything a bit narrower?

[Raeneth]

Originally Posted by luna_diviner

Random question @anyone in the know: Has there been a timeframe for Chapter 2 release? Last I heard it was sometime in July, maybe August. Anything a bit narrower?

No sir. If there is a wanting for it I'll put up a Chapter 2 progress thread.

[luna_diviner]

Originally Posted by Raeneth

No sir. If there is a wanting for it I'll put up a Chapter 2 progress thread.

Nah, nothing that official. Just my excitement getting ahead of me. ^_^

[Ralor Penwat]

Originally Posted by Raeneth

No sir. If there is a wanting for it I'll put up a Chapter 2 progress thread.

I would like that very much please Rae.

How 'bout sleights like Meteorain or Finishing Touch or Braver.

P.S. I seriously remember in the demo I played for P.C. while dad fixed my PS2 partway it said Meteor and Meteor2..... oh well....

[luna_diviner]

Braver would hypothetically be possible, although probably not in this chapter. The other two... are a little too overkill this early on.

Side note: FFVII did not have Meteo/Meteor as one of the spells. Instead, it offered Comet and Comet2, which you be thinking of.
<--- popped in my copy to check. I have all three versions (PS, PC, PS->PS3)

[Ralor Penwat]

Originally Posted by luna_diviner

Braver would hypothetically be possible, although probably not in this chapter. The other two... are a little too overkill this early on.

Side note: FFVII did not have Meteo/Meteor as one of the spells. Instead, it offered Comet and Comet2, which you be thinking of.
<--- popped in my copy to check. I have all three versions (PS, PC, PS->PS3)

What about Cross slash?

I said the Demo... and it was Meteor on the demo, I also checked....

Why so many copies? 0_o