Interesting.

[Dogenzaka]

This is interesting.

(Someone told me that the person who spoke to the professor was a young Albert Einstein, but I have no source of that being true. Was just a rumor.)





A science professor begins his school year with a lecture to the students, "Let me explain the problem science has with religion." The atheist professor of philosophy pauses before his class and then asks one of his new students to stand.

"You're a Christian, aren't you, son?"

"Yes sir," the student says.

"So you believe in God?"

"Absolutely."

"Is God good?"

"Sure! God's good."

"Is God all-powerful? Can God do anything?"

"Yes."

"Are you good or evil?"

"The Bible says I'm evil."

The professor grins knowingly. "Aha! The Bible!" He considers for a moment. "Here's one for you. Let's say there's a sick person over here and you can cure him. You can do it. Would you help him? Would you try?"

"Yes sir, I would."

"So you're good...!"

"I wouldn't say that."

"But why not say that? You'd help a sick and maimed person if you could. Most of us would if we could. But God doesn't."

The student does not answer, so the professor continues. "He doesn't, does he? My brother was a Christian who died of cancer, even though he prayed to Jesus to heal him. How is this Jesus good? Hmmm? Can you answer that one?"

The student remains silent.

"No, you can't, can you?" the professor says. He takes a sip of water from a glass on his desk to give the student time to relax.

"Let's start again, young fella. Is God good?"

"Er...yes," the student says.

"Is Satan good?"

The student doesn't hesitate on this one. "No."

"Then where does Satan come from?"

The student falters. "From God"

"That's right. God made Satan, didn't he? Tell me, son. Is there evil in this world?"

"Yes, sir."

"Evil's everywhere, isn't it? And God did make everything, correct?"

"Yes."

"So who created evil?" The professor continued, "If God created everything, then God created evil, since evil exists, and according to the principle that our works define who we are, then God is evil."

Again, the student has no answer. "Is there sickness? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness? All these terrible things, do they exist in this world?"

The student squirms on his feet. "Yes."

"So who created them?"

The student does not answer again, so the professor repeats his question. "Who created them?" There is still no answer. Suddenly the lecturer breaks away to pace in front of the classroom. The class is mesmerized. "Tell me," he continues onto another student. "Do you believe in Jesus Christ, son?"

The student's voice betrays him and cracks. "Yes, professor, I do."

The old man stops pacing. "Science says you have five senses you use to identify and observe the world around you. Have you ever seen Jesus?"

"No sir. I've never seen Him."

"Then tell us if you've ever heard your Jesus?"

"No, sir, I have not."

"Have you ever felt your Jesus, tasted your Jesus or smelt your Jesus? Have you ever had any sensory perception of Jesus Christ, or God for that matter?"

"No, sir, I'm afraid I haven't."

"Yet you still believe in him?"

"Yes."

"According to the rules of empirical, testable, demonstrable protocol, science says your God doesn't exist. What do you say to that, son?"

"Nothing," the student replies. "I only have my faith."

"Yes, faith," the professor repeats. "And that is the problem science has with God. There is no evidence, only faith."

The student stands quietly for a moment, before asking a question of His own. "Professor, is there such thing as heat?"

"Yes," the professor replies. "There's heat."

"And is there such a thing as cold?"

"Yes, son, there's cold too."

"No sir, there isn't."

The professor turns to face the student, obviously interested. The room suddenly becomes very quiet. The student begins to explain. "You can have lots of heat, even more heat, super-heat, mega-heat, unlimited heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat, but we don't have anything called 'cold'. We can hit up to 458 degrees below zero, which is no heat, but we can't go any further after that. There is no such thing as cold; otherwise we would be able to go colder than the lowest -458 degrees."

"Every body or object is susceptible to study when it has or transmits energy, and heat is what makes a body or matter have or transmit energy. Absolute zero (-458 F) is the total absence of heat. You see, sir, cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold. Heat we can measure in thermal units because heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of it."

Silence across the room. A pen drops somewhere in the classroom, sounding like a hammer.

"What about darkness, professor. Is there such a thing as darkness?"

"Yes," the professor replies without hesitation. "What is night if it isn't darkness?"

"You're wrong again, sir. Darkness is not something; it is the absence of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing light, but if you have no light constantly you have nothing and it's called darkness, isn't it? That's the meaning we use to define the word."

"In reality, darkness isn't. If it were, you would be able to make darkness darker, wouldn't you?"

The professor begins to smile at the student in front of him. This will be a good semester. "So what point are you making, young man?"

"Yes, professor. My point is, your philosophical premise is flawed to start with, and so your conclusion must also be flawed."

The professor's face cannot hide his surprise this time. "Flawed? Can you explain how?"

"You are working on the premise of duality," the student explains. "You argue that there is life and then there's death; a good God and a bad God. You are viewing the concept of God as something finite, something we can measure. Sir, science can't even explain a thought."

"It uses electricity and magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood either one. To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing. Death is not the opposite of life, just the absence of it."

"Now tell me, professor. Do you teach your students that they evolved from a monkey?"

"If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, young man, yes, of course I do."

"Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?"

The professor begins to shake his head, still smiling, as he realizes where the argument is going. A very good semester, indeed.

"Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavor, are you not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you now not a scientist, but a preacher?"

The class is in uproar. The student remains silent until the commotion has subsided.

"To continue the point you were making earlier to the other student, let me give you an example of what I mean."

The student looks around the room. "Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the professor's brain?" The class breaks out into laughter.

"Is there anyone here who has ever heard the professor's brain, felt the professor's brain, touched or smelt the professor's brain? No one appears to have done so. So, according to the established rules of empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol, science says that you have no brain, with all due respect, sir."

"So if science says you have no brain, how can we trust your lectures, sir?"

Now the room is silent. The professor just stares at the student, his face unreadable.

Finally, after what seems an eternity, the old man answers. "I guess you'll have to take them on faith."

"Now, you accept that there is faith, and, in fact, faith exists with life," the student continues. "Now, sir, is there such a thing as evil?"

Now uncertain, the professor responds, "Of course, there is. We see it everyday. It is in the daily example of man's inhumanity to man. It is in the multitude of crime and violence everywhere in the world. These manifestations are nothing else but evil."

To this the student replied, "Evil does not exist sir, or at least it does not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God. It is just like darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe the absence of God. God did not create evil. Evil is the result of what happens when man does not have God's love present in his heart. It's like the cold that comes when there is no heat or the darkness that comes when there is no light."

The professor sat down.

[violent_anger]

black lights, lawl



cookie cutter arguments put into a single post.

[Ric]

Shit is old and hillarious.

[Hollow Bastion]

That rumor isn't true. Einstein was never a Christian.

And regarding the duality part, where the "student" rejects duality; can you take away duality? Can the concept of good exist without the concept of evil, and vice versa? Can light exist without dark? If dark never existed, how do you know what light is? It's a bit hard to claim something takes a certain side when you claim the other side doesn't exist.

[violent_anger]

exactly, which is why the absence of something was taken to mean the opposite of it, in the case of cold and darkness.

[Hollow Bastion]

Originally Posted by violent_anger

exactly, which is why the absence of something was taken to mean the opposite of it, in the case of cold and darkness.

And the way the "student" describes "good," the "student" makes good seem to be a tangible/real thing, and evil is just the absence of that thing. Why does good have to be the tangible existent concept? Why does light, heat, anything people tend to attribute as "positive" have to be the existent one, but the opposites just simply don't exist?

It would seem to me that the opposites are just as real as their counterpart.

[Dogenzaka]

That rumor isn't true. Einstein was never a Christian.

I know, I think what they meant was someone like Albert Einstein, like "a young Albert Einstein" meaning a really smart kid or something.

Anyways I just saw this on MySpace. Meh.

[square-enix]

So, according to the established rules of empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol, science says that you have no brain, with all due respect, sir.

I got lost in the sea of pretentious bullshit. Perhaps you can explain this sentence to me Dogenzaka.

Sir, science can't even explain a thought."

"It uses electricity and magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood either one."

The poster makes no effort to claim what religion can do, so why make this point at all?

Cold.....Darkness....

Well, that's just silly. Of course you can measure cold and darkness. You can find out of how much colder and darker it is. Find the change in heat and change in light intensity, respectively.

Anyways I just saw this on MySpace. Meh.

Yeah, it's been posted before. I remember the bit about evil and god, and realized how self-righteous the creator of the dialog was because he/she made God the embodiment of 'good'. MySpace is a fine place to look for your daily religious boost.

Tima hit the nail on the head. "Evil is only the absence of God if you believe in God. "

[Valley of Chrome]

The professor got pwned.
And that was hilarious.

Well, that's just silly. Of course you can measure cold and darkness. You can find out of how much colder and darker it is. Find the change in heat and change in light intensity, respectively.

Well, how can we find out?
We can only feel cold right?
We can only see darkness.
Your saying the loss of heat and light.
Not the actual cold and dark.

[Hollow Bastion]

Saying something is dark is just relative, just like saying something is bright. Saying something is cold is relative, just like saying something is hot.

Take away one, and the ability to judge "hot" or "cold" goes away.


Also, the professor in that story was weak. Didn't really propose good arguments and certainly didn't make good rebuttals.

[square-enix]

Originally Posted by illiterate

Well, how can we find out?

Originally Posted by me

You can find out of how much colder and darker it is. Find the change in heat and change in light intensity, respectively.

Your saying the loss of heat and light.
Not the actual cold and dark.

The 'lost' of heat and light is the gain of cold and dark.

[Dogenzaka]

The 'lost' of heat and light is the gain of cold and dark.

Cold and dark are adjectives, yes, but as a substance, cold and darkness do not exist, which I think was the point all along. Could be wrong.

[Hollow Bastion]

The problem is that cold is not the opposite of "heat" and dark is not the opposite of "light," unless you consider light in the form of an adjective. Therefore, trying to compare heat to cold and light (noun) to dark doesn't work. Hot can be compared to cold. Bright can be compared to dark.

[Dogenzaka]

Therefore, trying to compare heat to cold and light (noun) to dark doesn't work.

Hot can be compared to cold. Bright can be compared to dark.

Sorry..............what?

Well, light is a noun that can be present in magnitude (therefore less of it makes things darker, more of it makes things brighter) and the absence of light is darkness. So light itself isn't an opposite of darkness, kind of like how water makes a glass full or empty, and water isn't the opposite of an empty glass, is that waht you mean? However, "bright" is the opposite of "dark", but the amount of light determines how bright and dark something is. Is that kind of what you meant? Sorry, trying to understand your thoughts.

[Hollow Bastion]

Yes. Heat doesn't describe it, it's just a measurement. Same with light (noun). You can't compare heat with cold. They're not opposites. However, hot and cold are adjectives that are opposites that show two sides to what is measured from heat. The same with bright and dark. And each is relative. What may be cold to one person may not be cold to another; what is dark to one person may not be to another.