Your Views on Atheism

[AndyKhaos]

I'm atheist. I've asked god to prove himself to me, and I've done so much for him. I'm not rejecting the possibility of him, either. I'm just saying, if god were real, he'd show himself in times like these. He'd give us hope.

If we were supposedly created in god's image, then why are we so evil? Thus, Christians worship and support evil. IT MAKES NO SENSE. They claim god is good, yet evil? So he's normal. Isn't he supposed to be perfect? Normal ISN'T PERFECTION.

[╬ProperArtist╬]

I myself am a christian (not extreme-I mean i believe in god & i have faith in him). For me way too many things have lined up just perfectly in my life from a year or two before i was born to now. Back then they didn't make sense at all hearing about things my parents had been through and the things I've gone through and experienced, however now it's all oddly enough clear. The explanation for this is my dad's death. Some would think having someone close to you like that would drive you away from God with the constant question of "Why'd you take him from me" and although that question still isn't clear, the other events leading up to it in hen site make perfect sense.

But anywho i could see why someone would be atheist. Then again I for one feel that any form of organized religion is wrong because most religions have the exact same stories/occurrences and of course depending on where you live the view point is going to be biased or told in a different light in some fashion but the fact that they each consider you wrong for not picking a definite side instead of being an individual and having thoughts outside of what they consider supreme law is just not right.

I mean come on God has to have a sense of humor and understanding to a degree, and I don't care what you say NO ONE has to be baptized to be "saved" because if that's the case if someone never goes to church but lives a more than admirable life they automatically go to hell and it's not right.

I guess i see both sides of the fence and i can understand why someone would be an atheist, but alas I'm not

*And for those who said that you control your own destiny and when you do good, good is reflected upon you vice versa. How do you explain bad things happening to good people and good things happening to people who damn well don't deserve it. Hell for that matter how do you explain the numerous "coincidence" that are my or could be another's life*

Personally as far as the creation of the earth goes i believe in Progressive Creationism.
-Progressive creationism holds that species have changed or evolved in a process continuously guided by God, with various ideas as to how the process operated—though it is generally taken that God directly intervened in the natural order at key moments in Earth/life's history. This view accepts most of modern physical science including the age of the earth, but rejects much of modern evolutionary biology or looks to it for evidence that evolution by natural selection alone is incorrect.

[Ojike]

Originally Posted by AndyKhaos

If we were supposedly created in god's image, then why are we so evil? Thus, Christians worship and support evil. IT MAKES NO SENSE. They claim god is good, yet evil? So he's normal. Isn't he supposed to be perfect? Normal ISN'T PERFECTION.

Your logic seems a bit flawed. Let me fix it for you.

First of all, the Bible (Regardless of which religion it belongs to) is filled with exaggerations. Why? Man wrote it. And man is a hopeless romantic. Second, mankind did not know of good or evil until Eve took a bite out of that apple. When God created man, we were not even aware of such a concept as "evil". We are evil now because we've been corrupted over time. Most of, at least.

[Phoenix]

Uh, so progressive creationism takes what it likes about the theory of evolution and rejects the rest? That's pretty hypocritical there.

[╬ProperArtist╬]

^ I mean I believe that both evolution & creationism subside in the same ideal. Meaning that God created the earth but allowed things to progress over time via evolution. How else would you explain many of the remains from "half-breed" creatures from centuries past in mid evolution. Like the many skeletons found which connect Flying/Winged Prehistoric Creatures & Raptors and modern day birds (just an example)
Every theory in some form or fashion is hypocritical, because even though religion was handed down to man by God; the fact remains that it's a constant in man's hand. Thus a spin/twist/own personal views are spliced into it. Most people you'll find around are hypocritical in their faith. For instance a preacher who preaches the word of God but cheats on his wife, beats his children, and curses with every other word he speaks when not in a house of God. In short everyone who believes in something is hypocritical, because they aren't perfect thus they'll eventually do something which goes against their own beliefs/religion, when they preach something entirely different to other people. It's the world we live in What Can I say.

One other thing i don't like about Christianity & Catholicism the exclusion of the Apocrypha from the Bible.

[Hollow Bastion]

Originally Posted by Ojike

Your logic seems a bit flawed. Let me fix it for you.

First of all, the Bible (Regardless of which religion it belongs to) is filled with exaggerations. Why? Man wrote it. And man is a hopeless romantic. Second, mankind did not know of good or evil until Eve took a bite out of that apple. When God created man, we were not even aware of such a concept as "evil". We are evil now because we've been corrupted over time. Most of, at least.

Concepts of evil and good cannot exist unless there's something to compare to. To have good, you must have evil. To have evil, you must have good.

[gottaluvkh1992]

Well what is good or evil? you may think yeah its when someone kills someone and the good person is the person stoping him but it runs deeper than that. He maybe killing rapists or pedivals who could never be charged and they rape many people and are very careful so very careful, so the person stopping him maybe classed as "evil". And in battles and wars both sides were taught that they were good and the other side was evil so which one is right? neither good is only good because there is evil, and everyone has both, everyone has temptations. You may class good people as those who resist temptation, and evil for those who follow their temptations but what is the temptation? it can be very hard to class good and evil. She took the apple because she was tempted but did she know what would happen? No so God can be to blame for not telling them. Correct?

[Xsora5X]

Originally Posted by .:Roxas:.

I'm an athiest mainly because christians kinda ruined "religion" for me.

I seen how attatched they were to their god and that they try and push their beliefs on people who chose not to believe in god. I dont like how they treat their followers by saying "believe this or else you go to hell" and if you even try and talk back or against the teachings, you get in some major trouble with the other people at the church. It kinda just ruined religion in general for me, i want to be free to make my own decisions.

So yea, this is why i'm athiest, and no i'm not bashing christianity.

what kind of christianity do you mean. i am a seventhday adventist and we dont say believe in this or go to hell. we let you decide what to believe. we dont push you to believe in christianity. and i question things sometimes and i dont get in trouble.

[╬ProperArtist╬]

Originally Posted by gottaluvkh1992

Well what is good or evil? you may think yeah its when someone kills someone and the good person is the person stoping him but it runs deeper than that. He maybe killing rapists or pedivals who could never be charged and they rape many people and are very careful so very careful, so the person stopping him maybe classed as "evil". And in battles and wars both sides were taught that they were good and the other side was evil so which one is right? neither good is only good because there is evil, and everyone has both, everyone has temptations. You may class good people as those who resist temptation, and evil for those who follow their temptations but what is the temptation? it can be very hard to class good and evil. She took the apple because she was tempted but did she know what would happen? No so God can be to blame for not telling them. Correct?

I wouldn't say that. That's like most dad's teach the idea of "tough love" to their kids. They go for the plug or a hot stove. They warn them once not to touch it no matter how tempting it maybe to that child. However that child touches the hot stove or the plug anyway and they find out what happens first hand.

What kinda world would this be if everyone was babied and told what would happen if they did wrong. Some things can't be explained you just have to experience them for yourselves to know whether or not what you've done is good or bad.

And on the subject of good, if a baby is deserted by it's parents and left (let's go out on a limb here) on some random island/jungle (whatever) and has never been taught what right or wrong is they won't know anymore so to THEM there is no right or wrong way to do things in their minds, except for the physical not the mental. However, put someone of different mind & experience in that same situation with that child and leave it for them to spread the word of what's right or what is wrong. Ignorance is the key. If you don't know what right or wrong is then you won't know the difference. It's similar to the baby thing i used earlier. If you're born not knowing and never told what's right or wrong you don't know the difference so to you that concept is bizarre. Our definition of bad is defined by pain if we don't know any better. I mean if you were ignorant to everything but your senses wouldn't you want to stay away from anything that is "harmful-" to you in anyway (physically). Everything good or bad emotionally & mentally we've been taught to differentiate by our parents, teachers, school systems, preachers, the media, etc. In essence, these are all who's job it is "teach & persuade" you for a living.

and by ignorant i mean -unaware of. Not that you're stupid.

In the bible it says how this tree that Eve at this fruit from was the "Tree of Knowledge of Good & Evil" something like that. Before she ate it *oblivious* after * all knowing (to a degree)*

What I'm trying to say in all this is. People aren't just born knowing the difference between good & evil we're taught the difference as we grow older through the influences we live in. I mean that's just describing any culture there is out there. What's right to me may be wrong to you, why? because you were taught something completely different than me vice versa as far as that issues goes. In some cases though being taught one particular ideal in life can steer you in the other direction opposite what you've been told.

^ I so did not mean to type that much

[Phoenix]

I wouldn't say that. That's like most dad's teach the idea of "tough love" to their kids. They go for the plug or a hot stove. They warn them once not to touch it no matter how tempting it maybe to that child. However that child touches the hot stove or the plug anyway and they find out what happens first hand.

Bad analogy. Parents provide a temporary punishment to better a child's life: the punishment has a purpose. What purpose does eternal punishment have? It's punishment for the sake of punishment.

and by ignorant i mean -unaware of. Not that you're stupid.

Perhaps it's personal preference, but a religion that teaches that ignorance and obliviousness is the natural and intended state for humanity just doesn't appeal to me that much.

[╬ProperArtist╬]

Originally Posted by Phoenix

Perhaps it's personal preference, but a religion that teaches that ignorance and obliviousness is the natural and intended state for humanity just doesn't appeal to me that much.

^ I agree with you Phoenix. It's why i don't go to church anymore. I believe in God however, I don't approve of organized religion.

Each one deals in the same principles (to a degree), but man's touch from different parts of the world have gotten the true message sidetracked. People fight over religion because of these differences. If these people who so say they're Christians yet continuously put others down for not being one of them, what does that make them?
I'd say eternal punish has the purpose of knowing that God exist being in him, saying you belief in him, yet time & time again you constantly do evil things. Basically being a two face & hypocritical on every level possible. Breaking the Ten Commandments apologizing for them but knowing damn well you're not sorry for doing any one of them, or just not carrying about anything or anybody that you come in contact with. (while still acknowledging the notion of a God, gods, whatever you believe as a supernatural being, existing)

However, if one is ignorant to God's existence yet leaves a life worthy of being honorable then no they don't go to hell. I mean I'd hate to think that billions of people over the years spread over the entire continents of the world have all gone to hell just because they knew nothing of God.
I mean having faith & believing in something is good enough.

Even those cultures believed in something, It would suck if they all were sent to hell just because they gods they worshiped weren't GOD was most think of him.

[Phoenix]

^ I mean I believe that both evolution & creationism subside in the same ideal. Meaning that God created the earth but allowed things to progress over time via evolution. How else would you explain many of the remains from "half-breed" creatures from centuries past in mid evolution. Like the many skeletons found which connect Flying/Winged Prehistoric Creatures & Raptors and modern day birds (just an example)
Every theory in some form or fashion is hypocritical, because even though religion was handed down to man by God; the fact remains that it's a constant in man's hand. Thus a spin/twist/own personal views are spliced into it. Most people you'll find around are hypocritical in their faith. For instance a preacher who preaches the word of God but cheats on his wife, beats his children, and curses with every other word he speaks when not in a house of God. In short everyone who believes in something is hypocritical, because they aren't perfect thus they'll eventually do something which goes against their own beliefs/religion, when they preach something entirely different to other people. It's the world we live in What Can I say.

I missed this.

I have a question. Why do you believe when the scientists say we evolved, but don't believe when those very same scientists say the Earth was created by thousands of crashing planetesimals and proto-planets? I mean, you acknowledge the proof for evolution as being enough, but don't acknowledge the proof for cosmology? What's the difference?

[╬ProperArtist╬]

Originally Posted by Phoenix

I missed this.

I have a question. Why do you believe when the scientists say we evolved, but don't believe when those very same scientists say the Earth was created by thousands of crashing planetesimals and proto-planets? I mean, you acknowledge the proof for evolution as being enough, but don't acknowledge the proof for cosmology? What's the difference?

I guess because i'm in the middle on both. There's proof for one *cosmology-The Big Bang Theory* as well as the existence of God *for me at least*

I believe parts of the Big Bang Theory for the fact that these scientist have found the halfbreed remains of creatures centuries old that link to what we now know of creatures existing today.
And lets face it creatures evolve constantly(over a period of time), it's how we've survived this long.

Having said that however, I'm not 100% agreeing with the that theory because I've seen way too many things happen in my life past and present that seemed to pair up just right at the oddest and unsuspecting of times, but they sync up somehow or another. Things i had NO control over and could've never foreseen coming.
Things don't just happen like that for no reason.

Like i said I just have faith in God. I see both sides of the coin and I have an open mind about religion and other beliefs out there rather than just pushing anything other than Christianity to the side because some preacher said so. That doesn't mean I'm fickle on my beliefs just means I'll think more into other ideas before casting the stamp of BAD upon them.

I think God just gives you the choices to make, and it's up to you which path you take. I honestly doubt God constantly has you under his thumb. I believe he lets you make your own choices in life; lets things unfold on their own- I.E Evolution - however the unforeseen things he has a hand in (intangible things)

[Hollow Bastion]

Keep in mind that all the Big Bang Theory explains is the origin of the current universe, up until a certain time where we cannot predict what happened. That Theory does not play a direct role in the process of how stars and solar systems are formed.


Also, going back to your morality issue regarding the person on the island. Would a person turn out good if left to their own devices, free from moralistic influence? Are humans at birth fundamentally good? Or will the person's "morality" be negative or neutral? Should a person feel they are "good" because it's their duty, or because they feel like it?

[╬ProperArtist╬]

I'd say they're neutral, but that's just me haha
They're going to learn what the physical meaning of good and bad is but as far as a supernatural being, GOD, or beliefs period goes they most likely won't have any most likely.

Why wouldn't babies be born with a clean slate when they're brought into this world?, though they're basically being born into sin through a process which in itself is rooted in sin. However, being born into it, they're ignorant to what goes on in the world hell they can't even see, their helpless beings. I would hate to believe if a baby died in child birth it automatically burns in hell for the rest of it's days.

As for the other thing, I can't say because I'm not everyone (obviously). But for me I do what's good because it feels right. Then again anything i do because of what i feel is hypocritical, seeing as I've been taught over the 18 years I've been on this Earth what is good & what is bad.