Old Testament Scholar: Genesis is not a true Hebrew translation, God was never the "all creator"

[TheMuffinMan]

Telegraph UK

oh shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit

[Marly]

Like any devout religious person who follows the bible is going to believe this woman. While I believe this is a cool find and I believe her, no one else is going to.

[Forever Atlas]

One new (and rather strange) interpretation out of the many.

[Azrael]

Holy crap. Well it might be true. Maybe God is what the Deists say he was. Someone who indirectly created and then just stood witness as his creations endured the passage of time and evolve

[Phoenix]

Oh snap, shit just got real.

[Watson]

Well then, Judaism and all its offshoots now seem slightly more plausible.

Way to go, God.

[Dogenzaka]

What a surprise.
There is one scholar that happens to have a disagreeing opinion with other scholars that also have disagreeing opinions.

More news at 11.

The only thing here that surprises me is your reactions.

She said she eventually concluded the Hebrew verb "bara", which is used in the first sentence of the book of Genesis, does not mean "to create" but to "spatially separate".
The first sentence should now read "in the beginning God separated the Heaven and the Earth"

Everybody who ever studied the Bible knows this.
Many believe the separation is the atmosphere or hydrosphere.

As it is affirmed in other translations that God "separated the waters" so to speak to create the heavens and the earth, he didn't create them.

I'd go so far as to agree with "Many times this word is theologically taught to mean something brought out of nothing or something brought into existence that was previously not in existence. Well, this interpretation is based upon what appears to human intellect. Quite frankly, technically this is not true, for all things spring forth from the Word of God which IS God. The idea that something or anything came from nothing, contradicts the laws of science (not the theories) and the nature of the Creator."

This happens all the time. What I mean, is, languages of course don't have words to describe words in other languages, so words are different.

She said: "It meant to say that God did create humans and animals, but not the Earth itself."

"God was the subject (God created), followed by two or more objects. Why did God not create just one thing or animal, but always more?"
She concluded that God did not create, he separated: the Earth from the Heaven, the land from the sea, the sea monsters from the birds and the swarming at the ground.
"There was already water," she said.
"There were sea monsters. God did create some things, but not the Heaven and Earth. The usual idea of creating-out-of-nothing, creatio ex nihilo, is a big misunderstanding."

Now they are simply assuming that because the Bible says God separated the Heavens and the Earth, he didn't create them. Or rather, that it coming from God itself is "nothing".

She said she hoped that her conclusions would spark "a robust debate", since her finds are not only new,

Um no they're not, or at least they haven't been since I've been going to church (10 years now).

Her theory just might be new.

My pastor always teaches the root words of the Hebrew and Greek from the Bible, so I always knew about the "separation", though I don't remember exactly what was specifically said. Probably involved the hydrosphere of the Earth.

But she's saying because the Bible says there's a separation, that that discredits God from having made the Earth.

Because there are plenty of other verses that tell us God created everything.
Many of the pastors at my church have simultaneous original Hebrew/Greek translations alongside on the same page as their English translations for comparison.
As if the word "bara" in one verse changes the sentiment of the rest? I don't know about you, but I don't see בָּרָא (bara) in there anywhere. Similarly, for every definition of בָּרָא I've found, I've found "creation" next to it..

This is what the LORD says: "Heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool. Where is the house you will build for me? Where will my resting place be? Has not my hand made all these things, and so they came into being?" declares the LORD (Isaiah 66:1,2).
[Hebrew from Masoretic Text כֹּה אָמַר יְהוָה הַשָּׁמַיִם כִּסְאִי וְהָאָרֶץ הֲדֹם רַגְלָי אֵי־זֶה בַיִת אֲשֶׁר תִּבְנוּ־לִי וְאֵי־זֶה מָקֹום מְנוּחָתִֽי׃]

For by him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through him and for him (Colossians 1:16).
[Greek from Textus Receptus ὅτι ἐν αὐτῷ ἐκτίσθη τὰ πάντα τὰ ἐν τοῖς οὐρανοῖς καὶ τὰ ἐπὶ τῆς γῆς τὰ ὁρατὰ καὶ τὰ ἀόρατα εἴτε θρόνοι εἴτε κυριότητες εἴτε ἀρχαὶ εἴτε ἐξουσίαι τὰ πάντα δι᾽ αὐτοῦ καὶ εἰς αὐτὸν ἔκτισται]

By faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that the things which are seen were not made of things which are visible (Hebrews 11:3).
[Greek from Textus Receptus Πίστει νοοῦμεν κατηρτίσθαι τοὺς αἰῶνας ῥήματι θεοῦ εἰς τὸ μὴ ἐκ φαινομένων τά βλεπόμενα γεγονέναι]

All things were made by him, and without him nothing was made that was made (John 1:3).
[Greek from Textus Receptus πάντα δι᾽ αὐτοῦ ἐγένετο καὶ χωρὶς αὐτοῦ ἐγένετο οὐδὲ ἕν ὃ γέγονεν]

You are worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honor and power; for you created all things, and by your will they exist and were created (Revelation 4:11).
[Greek from Textus Receptus καὶ τέσσαρα ζῷα ἓν καθ᾽ ἑαυτὸ εἴχον ἀνὰ πτέρυγας ἕξ κυκλόθεν καὶ ἔσωθεν γέμοντα ὀφθαλμῶν καὶ ἀνάπαυσιν οὐκ ἔχουσιν ἡμέρας καὶ νυκτὸς λέγοντα, Ἅγιος ἅγιος ἅγιος κύριος ὁ θεὸς ὁ παντοκράτωρ ὁ ἦν καὶ ὁ ὢν καὶ ὁ ἐρχόμενος]

Because those will be days of distress unequaled from the beginning, when God created the world, until now - and never to be equaled again (Mark 13:19).
[Greek from Textus Receptus σονται γὰρ αἱ ἡμέραι ἐκεῖναι θλῖψις οἵα οὐ γέγονεν τοιαύτη ἀπ᾽ ἀρχῆς κτίσεως ἣς ἔκτισεν ὁ θεὸς ἕως τοῦ νῦν καὶ οὐ μὴ γένηται]

And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began. (John 17:5).
[Greek from Textus Receptus καὶ νῦν δόξασόν με σύ πάτερ παρὰ σεαυτῷ τῇ δόξῃ ᾗ εἶχον πρὸ τοῦ τὸν κόσμον εἶναι παρὰ σοί]

For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. (Ephesians 1:4).
[Greek from Textus Receptus καθὼς ἐξελέξατο ἡμᾶς ἐν αὐτῷ πρὸ καταβολῆς κόσμου εἶναι ἡμᾶς ἁγίους καὶ ἀμώμους κατενώπιον αὐτοῦ ἐν ἀγάπῃ]


Before the mountains were born or you brought forth the earth and the world, from everlasting to everlasting you are God (Psalm 90:2).
[Hebrew from Masoretic Text בְּטֶרֶם הָרִים יֻלָּדוּ וַתְּחֹולֵֽל אֶרֶץ וְתֵבֵל וּֽמֵעֹולָם עַד־עֹולָם אַתָּה אֵֽל׃]

I was appointed from eternity, from the beginning, before the world began (Proverbs 8:23).
[Hebrew from Masoretic Text מֵעֹולָם נִסַּכְתִּי מֵרֹאשׁ מִקַּדְמֵי־אָֽרֶץ׃]

He is before all things, and in him all things hold together (Colossians 1:17).
[Greek from Textus Receptus καὶ αὐτός ἐστιν πρὸ πάντων καὶ τὰ πάντα ἐν αὐτῷ συνέστηκεν]

I am the Lord, who makes all things, who stretches out the heavens all alone (Isaiah 44:24).
[Hebrew from Masoretic Text כֹּֽה־אָמַר יְהוָה גֹּאֲלֶךָ וְיֹצֶרְךָ מִבָּטֶן אָנֹכִי יְהוָה עֹשֶׂה כֹּל נֹטֶה שָׁמַיִם לְבַדִּי רֹקַע הָאָרֶץ מי אתי]

By the word of the Lord the heavens were made, and all the host of them by the breath of His mouth. He gathers the waters of the sea together as a heap . . . For he spoke, and it was done; He commanded and it stood fast (Psalm 33:6,7,9).
[Hebrew from Masoretic Text בִּדְבַר יְהוָה שָׁמַיִם נַעֲשׂוּ וּבְרוּחַ פִּיו כָּל־צְבָאָֽם׃
כֹּנֵס כַּנֵּד מֵי הַיָּם נֹתֵן בְּאֹצָרֹות תְּהֹומֹֽות׃
כִּי הוּא אָמַר וַיֶּהִי הֽוּא־צִוָּה וַֽיַּעֲמֹֽד׃]

Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth? Tell me if you have understanding. Who determined its measurements? Surely you know (Job 38:4,5).
[Hebrew from Masoretic Text אֵיפֹה הָיִיתָ בְּיָסְדִי־אָרֶץ הַגֵּד אִם־יָדַעְתָּ בִינָֽה׃
מִי־שָׂם מְמַדֶּיהָ כִּי תֵדָע אֹו מִֽי־נָטָה עָלֶיהָ קָּֽו׃]

For he looks to the ends of the earth, and sees under the whole heavens, to establish a weight for the wind, and mete out waters by measure. When he made a law for the rain, and a path for the thunderbolt (Job 28:24-26).
[Hebrew from Masoretic Text אֵי־זֶה הַדֶּרֶךְ יֵחָלֶק אֹור יָפֵץ קָדִים עֲלֵי־אָֽרֶץ׃
מִֽי־פִלַּג לַשֶּׁטֶף תְּעָלָה וְדֶרֶךְ לַחֲזִיז קֹלֹֽות׃
לְהַמְטִיר עַל־אֶרֶץ לֹא־אִישׁ מִדְבָּר לֹא־אָדָם בֹּֽו׃]

Do you know the balance of the clouds, those wondrous works of him who is perfect in knowledge . . . With him, have you spread out the skies, strong as a cast metal mirror? (Job 37:16,18).
[Hebrew from Masoretic Text הֲתֵדַע עַל־מִפְלְשֵׂי־עָב מִפְלְאֹות תְּמִים דֵּעִֽים׃
תַּרְקִיעַ עִמֹּו לִשְׁחָקִים חֲזָקִים כִּרְאִי מוּצָֽק׃]


Of old you have laid the foundation of the earth, and the heavens are the work of your hands. They will perish, but you will endure; yes all of them will grow old like a garment; like a cloak you will change them, and they will be changed. But you are the same, and your years will have no end (Psalm 102:25-27).
[Hebrew from Masoretic Text לְפָנִים הָאָרֶץ יָסַדְתָּ וּֽמַעֲשֵׂה יָדֶיךָ שָׁמָֽיִם׃
הֵמָּה יֹאבֵדוּ וְאַתָּה תַעֲמֹד וְכֻלָּם כַּבֶּגֶד יִבְלוּ כַּלְּבוּשׁ תַּחֲלִיפֵם וְֽיַחֲלֹֽפוּ׃
וְאַתָּה־הוּא וּשְׁנֹותֶיךָ לֹא יִתָּֽמּוּ׃]


God, made the world and everything in it, since he is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands. Nor is he worshiped with men's hands, as though he needed anything, since he gives to all life, breath, and all things (Acts 17:24,25).
[Greek from Textus Receptus ὁ θεὸς ὁ ποιήσας τὸν κόσμον καὶ πάντα τὰ ἐν αὐτῷ οὗτος οὐρανοῦ καὶ γῆς κύριος ὑπάρχων οὐκ ἐν χειροποιήτοις ναοῖς κατοικεῖ οὐδὲ ὑπὸ χειρῶν ἀνθρώπων θεραπεύεται προσδεόμενός τινος αὐτὸς διδοὺς πάσιν ζωὴν καὶ πνοὴν κατὰ πάντα]

You are worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honor and power; for you have created all things, and by your will they exist and were created (Revelation 4:11).
[Greek from Textus Receptus Ἄξιος εἶ Κύριε, λαβεῖν τὴν δόξαν καὶ τὴν τιμὴν καὶ τὴν δύναμιν ὅτι σὺ ἔκτισας τὰ πάντα καὶ διὰ τὸ θέλημά σου εἰσιν καὶ ἐκτίσθησαν]

For since the creation of the world his invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse (Romans 1:20).
[Greek from Textus Receptus τὰ γὰρ ἀόρατα αὐτοῦ ἀπὸ κτίσεως κόσμου τοῖς ποιήμασιν νοούμενα καθορᾶται ἥ τε ἀΐδιος αὐτοῦ δύναμις καὶ θειότης εἰς τὸ εἶναι αὐτοὺς ἀναπολογήτους]

For this they willfully forget; that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of water and in the water (2 Peter 3:5). <---(This verse basically tells us that the earth and the heavens came from the Word of God, not necessarily "nothing")
[Greek from Textus Receptus λανθάνει γὰρ αὐτοὺς τοῦτο θέλοντας ὅτι οὐρανοὶ ἦσαν ἔκπαλαι καὶ γῆ ἐξ ὕδατος καὶ δι᾽ ὕδατος συνεστῶσα τῷ τοῦ θεοῦ λόγῳ]

[Phoenix]

Incidentally, Dogen, I think we're looking at Genesis as a singular myth from an ancient tribe, as opposed to using a passage from John, or Issaiah, or the Psalms, to back it up.

I mean, if you're looking at the Bible from a religious point of view, ok, but if you're looking at the Bible from a historical point of view, you have to use Genesis, or stories from the same time, on its own.

[Dogenzaka]

I don't believe Genesis was the first Book in the Bible to be written, actually.
Most historians believe it was Job, I think.

[Phoenix]

I don't believe Genesis was the first Book in the Bible to be written, actually.

But you see my point, though, right? From a historical point of view, you can't use books from different times and tribes to explain what a verb in Genesis means. You're more than welcome to believe so, of course, but you can't objectively do it.

Now, I'm not saying this is the correct interpretation, since I'm no biblical scholar, but I'm just pointing that out.

[Dogenzaka]

Oh by all means, no, I'm simply saying that just because it says "bara" in that one verse does not discredit the entire Bible's mentions of God's creations (which don't simply use the verse "bara") in a wealth of different verses from different prophets and figures from different time periods, before and after Genesis' writing.

[Phoenix]

Oh by all means, no, I'm simply saying that just because it says "bara" in that one verse does not discredit the entire Bible's mentions of God's creations (which don't simply use the verse "bara") in a wealth of different verses from different prophets and figures from different time periods, before and after Genesis' writing.

But again, you're looking at the Bible as a single document. The historian looks at Genesis as separate, or at the very least, only with books written by the same tribe in the same time. Now, there might be more in the OT, I dunno, but you certainly can't pair it up with John, for example.

[Dogenzaka]

Eh, in my opinion I could, if I for example believe Jesus is God, then the fact that Jesus said that in John is significant.

But yes, I see your point.

[Hidden]

I don't find the article particularly world-shattering. It is an insightful reading into the creation story, but the word used is still "bara", to create. I know next to nothing of the Hebrew language, and so cannot speculate on the connotations of the word itself, but many creation stories depict creation as an act of separation, forging order and the world out of primeval chaos. In this sense, "God created the heaven and the earth" and "God separated the heaven and the earth" are synonymous. The idea of creatio ex nihilo is largely overrated to my opinion.

[Phoenix]

I don't find the article particularly world-shattering. It is an insightful reading into the creation story, but the word used is still "bara", to create. I know next to nothing of the Hebrew language, and so cannot speculate on the connotations of the word itself, but many creation stories depict creation as an act of separation, forging order and the world out of primeval chaos. In this sense, "God created the heaven and the earth" and "God separated the heaven and the earth" are synonymous. The idea of creatio ex nihilo is largely overrated to my opinion.

That might be true in the time the stories were being passed on, but today, there's a very large difference between creation and separation, because the question becomes, does God predate existence, or does existence predate God? If it's indeed an act of separation, then what I can gather is that God is part of the Universe, and not above it.