Will Atheism or Agnosticism soon be the Human Norm in the Future?

[Noich]

if we come to our senses and stop being brainwashed cattle.

but i think it would be a better idea to just abandon religious ideals all together. the cons of religion completely outweigh the pros.

[Square Ninja]

Originally Posted by Noich

if we come to our senses and stop being brainwashed cattle.

but i think it would be a better idea to just abandon religious ideals all together. the cons of religion completely outweigh the pros.

Awww...how cute. He learned that there is more than one religion in the world. Welcome to junior high.

[Ryu]

Originally Posted by ikkuh2

Ryu, you imply that mankind still isn't extinct because of the search for a deity of some sort. If that were to be the case, we wouldn't. Mankind lives on for two important reasons, fear of death and personal joy. We want to evade death as much as we can, since instinctively it is the end for us. We know how slim chances are you get to live as second time, consciously or unconsciously, and as such we act to prolong our own life. The second, the reason we have offspring, is that we want to be happy. We try to avoid unpleasant situations, including injury and death, and try to do as much things that make us happy as possible. Having a legacy in the form of a child, seeing it develop with you as a guide is hapyness to a lot of people.

I imply that our growth and evolution as a species depends largely on exploration and the discoveries of new ways to improve ourselves. That which we don't know and don't have will continue to fascinate us, including the possibility of a greater being.

And no, humanity doesn't thrive on 'being happy'. Individuals do, but we as a species are inclined to further our evolution in every way possible. It's human nature, you could say that it makes us happy, but it's not the sole reason we do it. We've done this for ages and if somehow, we suddenly massively start accepting that there is nothing left to discover, we'll stop making progress technologically, psychologically and spiritually, and it'll mean the end of us. Whether it's in the shape of Christianity, Islam, or some funky new religion with silly hats in 500 years, who knows; but the idea of a greater being will continue to fascinate mankind. Which is only for the best.

[Phoenix]

Re-read it, only this time read the whole thing and not just the first part.

"If it takes religion to give people these things"

And if it doesn't?

[Hidden]

Originally Posted by Phoenix

Well, I'm defining "divine" as things that humans accept have no explanation, so they stop trying to explain them.

Huh. That's an interesting (and more sociologically-minded) definition of divinity. I suppose that means our secular descendents would come to imagine an entirely explicable universe. Such an imagination is beyond me.

But back to your question:

Is there a good aspect of religion that you can't have without it?

Barring the objective existence of a god, I can't think of any. But no more can I imagine a bad aspect of religion that cannot be had without it either.


On another note, I would agree with Ryu that humanity does not exist on fear of death and personal happiness alone. And broadly speaking, religion is a system of thought that recognizes this.

[Square Ninja]

Originally Posted by Phoenix

"If it takes religion to give people these things"

And if it doesn't?

If religion has such benefits, why should we be so eager to get rid of it? Certainly those qualities aren't not exclusive to religion, but why should we care where people get these values, simply because they carry bullshit with them sometimes? The same could be said for science and logic.

[Phoenix]

If religion has such benefits, why should we be so eager to get rid of it? Certainly those qualities aren't not exclusive to religion, but why should we care where people get these values, simply because they carry bullshit with them sometimes?

I could argue that religious offers no such benefit; religion doesn't make people altruistic. Instead, altruistic people are more likely to pick up religion, but without religion, these people would still have those qualities, no?

Never mind that the cost we pay for keeping a system in which disregarding evidence is the correct path (and I don't mean only religion does that) might be too high to pay. But that, of course, is just my personal opinion.

The same could be said for science and logic.

Ultimately, the Sun will swallow up our planet. Before that, its higher heat will evaporate all of our oceans.

Science and logic gives humans a chance to live on, doesn't it?

tl;dr Without science, we all die in fire. Without religion, we might or might not lose some benefits that aren't necessarily tied to said religion.

[Prajna]

I would have to say that I am unsure. Religion is a very big part of people lives but science is starting to become the paramount resource for information and solutions. I think science complicates and frightens people though. Everyone will have their own religions to live by. Christianity and Catholicism will never completely die out nor will almost all other religions.

[Sorax3]

I feel like I am a Christian, but I don't believe in Christianity...It's complicated. Like I kinda have my own ideas. I keep an open mind though, we can't have everything figured out really though. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that humanity was completely an error in evolution, we're not the greatest race of animal. lol.

But I'm not gonna lie, I feel that Atheism is totally genuine and all but it's become a fad of sorts to some people...where it's just like the popular thing to be.

[Phoenix]

But I'm not gonna lie, I feel that Atheism is totally genuine and all but it's become a fad of sorts to some people...where it's just like the popular thing to be.

Atheism is popular? Maybe in Estonia =/

[Sorax3]

Among my high school and town it has...

[Hidden]

Originally Posted by Phoenix

I could argue that religious offers no such benefit; religion doesn't make people altruistic. Instead, altruistic people are more likely to pick up religion, but without religion, these people would still have those qualities, no?

You make religion sound like a hobby, rather than a system of thought, a paradigm or worldview, that actually shapes the way people think and act. If the former were true, your own arguments against the harms of religion would largely fall through.

Originally Posted by Phoenix

Never mind that the cost we pay for keeping a system in which disregarding evidence is the correct path (and I don't mean only religion does that) might be too high to pay. But that, of course, is just my personal opinion.

You also misplace your emphasis--it is a system in which "evidence" (i.e. observable phenomena) are not the final determinator of truth. Religion does not in fact have an antipathy to all physical evidence, and does not disregard it as a matter of course.

Originally Posted by Phoenix

Atheism is popular? Maybe in Estonia =/

Or on certain online forums for 17+ wise and world-weary posters.

[Phoenix]

You make religion sound like a hobby, rather than a system of thought, a paradigm or worldview, that actually shapes the way people think and act. If the former were true, your own arguments against the harms of religion would largely fall through.

I don't deny religions shapes human behavior; I deny it makes previously-selfish people into altruists, at least in a large enough number. It is more likely to be picked up by people whose thoughts already line-up with its basic tenets.

You also misplace your emphasis--it is a system in which "evidence" (i.e. observable phenomena) are not the final determinator of truth. Religion does not in fact have an antipathy to all physical evidence, and does not disregard it as a matter of course.

I could say that cherry-picking (gravity seems nice, but evolution seems icky) is worse because it's hypocritical.

Nevertheless, what sort of system can see an event happening in nature (as you said, observable phenomena) and go "no, that didn't happen, because in contradicts what I hold to be true"?

Or on certain online forums for 17+ wise and world-weary posters.

Mainly because most of the previous generations can't use the internet.

[Nelo Angelo]

I don't think Atheism will be the norm in the future because the proof of the existence of God is already evident and always has been. There have been many revelations and messengers through time, each preaching and teaching the Oneness of God. They revealed books and scriptures and some even performed miracles by the power of God to prove. But many if not all have been either lost or altered greatly through time, except the Holy Quran. For over 1400 years it has not been changed so it still has the same message today as they did centuries ago. Over a million muslims have learnt the words of the Quran off by heart to preserve its words and teach others. It is the authentic words of God. The Quran is the proof that there is a God and that God is Allah.

Some of you did mention that most will follow and believe science over Religion. But did you know that of the 6000 verses of the Quran, 1000 are to do with science? Those scientific information that is mentioned in the Quran agrees with the scientific facts we know today. It mentions things that have recently been found (say 500 years till now) some in great detail over 1400 years ago when man had no idea or could not have known any of this. Only through advances of technology have we come to know of many of them. And not one scientific fact mentioned in the Quran contradicts with science. So if you say you are a believer of science, guess what, so is Islam.

You see the Quran is a guide, a guide to not only muslims and arabs, but to all of mankind on how we should live our lives accordingly and submit our will to Almighty God so we can be at peace. Islam means peace and to submit your will to God. If people were to follow the words of Allah and the commands of Allah, then surely we would be at peace. But of course that isn't possible in the world we live in now it seems. Many corrupted people, even those who claim to be muslim, corrupt and misinterpret Islam for their own personal goals or for reasons that is against Islam altogether. It is a minute number, but nevertheless there are some, as there are in the other mainstream relgions and faiths. But the media likes to let the whole world know of the Islamic ones and portrays it in a negative light turning many away. Thus spreading Islamaphobia.
But even though this happens, Islam is the fastest growing relgion with over 1.3billion followers. Why? Because the practice of Islam, help people to be at peace and makes life so much easier for them. No book can be created like the Quran and never has been.

As it says in the Quran: Chapter 4, Verse 82:
"Do they not consider (ponder) on the Quran? If it had been from anyone except Allah, they would surely have found in it much discrepancy (contradictions)."

Chapter 2, Verses 23 & 24:
"And if you are in doubt as to what We have revealed to our servant, Then produce a Chapter like hereunto; And call your witnesses or helpers besides Allah, If you are true."

"But if you cannot, and surely you cannot, Then fear the fire Whose fuel is men and stones, Which is prepared for those who reject."

I'm still striving and learning to be a better muslim, gain more knowledge so I can teach others and guide others. May Allah guide me and inshallah more shall read upon and understand the way of Islam. Ameen.

[∞]

Originally Posted by Nelo Angelo

I don't think Atheism will be the norm in the future because the proof of the existence of God is already evident and always has been.

Such as?

They revealed books and scriptures

Written by people

some even performed miracles by the power of God to prove.

When there was minimal understanding of human illnesses and hygiene.

Haven't really got anything to say about the rest.