Birth control pill arrives in Italy. Vatican gets pissy and starts excommunicating

[Azrael]

Italy okays abortion pill

Vatican says users and doctors will be excommunicated


(ANSA) - Rome, July 31 - Italy's pharmaceutical agency AIFA has approved the so-called abortion pill despite fierce opposition from the Vatican and conservative politicians.

AIFA rules that the RU486 pill - not to be confused with the morning after pill that has been in use in Italy since 2000 - can be taken by women up until the 49th day of pregnancy under medical supervision in hospital, offering an alternative to surgical abortion.

Ahead of the decision on Thursday evening, the Vatican warned that women who take the pill and doctors who prescribe it would be automatically excommunicated.

Pontifical Academy of Life President Emeritus Msgr Giulio Sgreccia said the pill ''isn't a drug but a lethal poison'' that also threatens the lives of the women, pointing to 29 cases worldwide in which the drug has been linked to deaths.

Msgr Screccia said that since taking the pill was the same as having a surgical abortion, it constituted a ''crime and a sin in a moral and juridical sense'' that led to automatic excommunication from the Catholic Church.

The government said it would assess the agency's decision.

Welfare Undersecretary Eugenia Roccella expressed concern about the safety risks for women taking the pill and called on AIFA to clarify the situation. Roccella said she was concerned the green light for the pill could lead to ''legalised clandestinity'' with women aborting at home since the exact moment of the abortion after taking the bill cannot be predicted.

Luca Volonte' of the Catholic centrist UDC party said the move signalled the beginning of a ''dance of death with pharmaceutical multinationals'', adding that making the pill available ''as if it were aspirin'' violated Italy's strict abortion laws.

But AIFA's decision was hailed by many women and doctors.

''Finally! It's above all a victory for Italian women, who from today have more choice,'' said Silvio Viale, a gynecologist and member of the Radical Party.

Silvana Mura of the opposition Italy of Values party hailed AIFA's decision as offering women a ''much less invasive'' means of terminating a pregnancy than the surgical method.

Margherita Boniver of Premier Silvio Berlusconi's People of Freedom party called for an end to polemics, underlining that the pill was not going to be sold over the counter but would be administered in hospital.

ABORTION RATE DROPPING.

RU486, or mifepristone, was first introduced in France in 1988 and is now used in most European countries including Greece, Spain, Belgium and the United Kingdom.

In Italy the pill will still have to be administered within the terms of the Italian abortion law, which came into effect in 1978 and allows abortions until the 90th day of pregnancy.

After this point, terminations may be carried out only if the mother's health is at risk or the foetus is deformed.

The rate of abortions in Italy has been falling over recent years and is one of the lowest in the West.

According to health ministry figures released on Wednesday, there were 121,406 abortions in 2008, a drop of 4.1% on 2007, and a decrease of 48.3% on 1982 when the highest number of cases, 234,801, was recorded.

An estimated 15,000 illegal abortions are also carried out each year.

Pro-choice activists have complained that a growing number of pro-life medical practitioners is making it tougher for women to obtain abortions.

Under Italian law, doctors can refuse to perform an abortion if it runs counter to their principles.

Recent health ministry figures suggest that 70% of all Italian gynaecologists are now 'conscientious objectors' compared to 58.7% in 2003 while 50.4% of anaesthetists are opposed to abortion, compared to 45.7% in 2003.


ANSA.it - News in English - Italy okays abortion pill [/quote]

[∞]

Just like that stupidity where some guy was excommunicated or something because his daughter was like nine and had an abortion.

This is one of the reasons why I hate religion, or at least this specific Christianity. People want abortions because they don't want a child, are incapable of caring for one, or would make horrible parents. Why punish people for saving a child from growing up in such circumstances?

[Dogenzaka]

because his daughter was like nine and had an abortion.

But that's murder.
I'm not necessarily sure how the birth control pill violates any laws from God? Well God said he wanted man to be fruitful and populate the earth....which has happened, but there's not much that would leave me to believe that the pill, both for wise prevention of a child at a certain time, and for health benefits, can be a problem..

[Forever Atlas]

Originally Posted by ∞

Why punish people for saving a child from growing up in such circumstances?

I don't think ending the life is exactly saving. =/

Originally Posted by Dogenzaka

But that's murder.
I'm not necessarily sure how the birth control pill violates any laws from God? Well God said he wanted man to be fruitful and populate the earth....which has happened, but there's not much that would leave me to believe that the pill, both for wise prevention of a child at a certain time, and for health benefits, can be a problem..

I'm not quite sure, is it talking about birth control pills or "the day after"/abortion pill?



Anyway, too many people want to make others change for them and are not willing to make the changes themselves. If you want to be affiliated with any group there are rules to follow and if you do not follow it the head of whatever the group is has a right to kick you out.

Now regardless of what the rules are let us even forget that the topic is about abortion- If you are at a job and you break company policy you can get fired. If you are in school and you break school rules you can be suspended or expelled. If you break the laws of a government, the government as a right to take you out of society (or kick you out in a way) and put you in jail. So why is it everyone gets pissy when a religion with a set of rules tries to enforce it?

If you want to be part of that group or society then follow the rules. If you don't want to follow the rules then don't be part of that group or suffer the consequences. Simple as that.

[Aucune Raison]

Originally Posted by Dogenzaka

But that's murder.

Yes, killing the clump of cells inside of the womb of a nine-year-old who was raped by her stepfather is totally murder. Never mind that her tiny frame was incapable of giving birth, or going through the process, and surviving. How dare the doctor save her life, how dare the parents support her, they deserved to be ex-communicated. But the rapist stepfather didn't do anything wrong, he's cool, he can stay.



Also, children, always obey the law, no matter how unjust and crazy it may seem, no matter how much it hinders your life and that of any children you are forced to raise.

[Angel]

when the world gets overpopulated, i say the vatican should be the first to go if they're gonna PMS about crap like this

[Azrael]

Originally Posted by Forever Atlas

I don't think ending the life is exactly saving. =/



I'm not quite sure, is it talking about birth control pills or "the day after"/abortion pill?



Anyway, too many people want to make others change for them and are not willing to make the changes themselves. If you want to be affiliated with any group there are rules to follow and if you do not follow it the head of whatever the group is has a right to kick you out.

Now regardless of what the rules are let us even forget that the topic is about abortion- If you are at a job and you break company policy you can get fired. If you are in school and you break school rules you can be suspended or expelled. If you break the laws of a government, the government as a right to take you out of society (or kick you out in a way) and put you in jail. So why is it everyone gets pissy when a religion with a set of rules tries to enforce it?

If you want to be part of that group or society then follow the rules. If you don't want to follow the rules then don't be part of that group or suffer the consequences. Simple as that.

Because Catholic teaching can no longer be applied to modern Western society.

[Angel]

Originally Posted by Sa'id

Because Catholic teaching can no longer be applied to modern Western society.

because i think people are just gonna glaze over that word when they read this quote

[Forever Atlas]

Originally Posted by Sa'id

Because Catholic teaching can no longer be applied to modern Western society.

And if that is how the people feel then they shouldn't be a part of the religion. The group doesn't have to change, but if someone wants to be part of it then they will have to conform or make changes according to the rules (if enforced) if they want to stay.

[Aucune Raison]

Originally Posted by Forever Atlas

And if that is how the people feel then they shouldn't be a part of the religion. Once again, the group doesn't have to change, but if someone wants to be part of it then they will have to conform or make changes if they want to stay.

"Want"? There is no "want". There is only "need". Do you realize how ingrained religion is into society?

[Azrael]

Originally Posted by Forever Atlas

And if that is how the people feel then they shouldn't be a part of the religion. The group doesn't have to change, but if someone wants to be part of it then they will have to conform or make changes according to the rules (if enforced) if they want to stay.

I am not in accordance that the Catholic Church should change but hold steadfast to their beliefs and I would continue to hold a minimal respect, tolerance really, of them because of that.

The Catholic Church is losing its strength in the developed First World but at least they could always depend on brainwashing the poor Third World with its beliefs. That is if Islam didn't get to them first.

[Forever Atlas]

Originally Posted by Aucune Raison

"Want"? There is no "want". There is only "need". Do you realize how ingrained religion is into society?

And you do realize that it has been continually and increasingly losing its hold especially in secularized and western society?

Originally Posted by Sa'id

I am not in accordance that the Catholic Church should change but hold steadfast to their beliefs and I would continue to hold a minimal respect, tolerance really, of them because of that.

The Catholic Church is losing its strength in the developed First World but at least they could always depend on brainwashing the poor Third World with its beliefs. That is if Islam didn't get to them first.

I'm not exactly defending the Catholic Church because I far from agree with their teachings and the way they are set up. That and we all know their history. I'm just talking about the general idea of any organization, group, or society having the right to enforce rules upon its members as long as it isn't cruel or unusual.

[Aucune Raison]

Originally Posted by Forever Atlas

And you do realize that it has been continually and increasingly losing its hold especially in secularized and western society?

Not relevant in the now, and countries like Brazil and Italy are the exact opposite of secular.

[Dogenzaka]

Yes, killing the clump of cells inside of the womb of a nine-year-old who was raped by her stepfather is totally murder.

Uh, yes it is.
You're just a big clump of cells, you realize that, right?
You justify it however because the girl was 9. That's not the point. In fact, abortion being right or wrong isn't the point. It's just murder regardless. Whether that's okay to you or not in the context is done it is your problem. No one is talking about the fucking specifications of the situation or the justifications behind what was done, you just have the sheer ignorance to question the idea that it "wasn't murder" simply because it was done under what you think is a just cause. If I kill someone who invades my home, it's still murder, regardless of whether it was justified or not, because the definition of murder is killing another human being.

durr

But the rapist stepfather didn't do anything wrong, he's cool, he can stay.

I don't believe anyone mentioned the "rapist stepfather" being right or wrong at all.
Way to take three words and write me a paragraph of assumptions on the morality of a situation.

Oh and the morning-after pill is wonky. I heard it screws up your hormones pretty badly for a while XD

[Angel]

Originally Posted by Dogenzaka

Uh, yes it is.
You're just a big clump of cells, you realize that, right?
You justify it however because the girl was 9. That's not the point. In fact, abortion being right or wrong isn't the point. It's just murder regardless. Whether that's okay to you or not in the context is done it is your problem. No one is talking about the fucking specifications of the situation or the justifications behind what was done, you just have the sheer ignorance to question the idea that it "wasn't murder" simply because it was done under what you think is a just cause. If I kill someone who invades my home, it's still murder, regardless of whether it was justified or not, because the definition of murder is killing another human being.

murder is killing in cold blood

if you killed someone who was invading your home in self defense, would a judge have you carted you off to jail? i doubt it