Hell

[Forever Atlas]

Originally Posted by Ams Tram Gram

If you don't mind my asking again: what happens to the nonbelievers, when the believers are resurected (I hope I'm correct in saying that, since I believe its what I gathered from your posts)? I assume they're simply not resurected? Sorry if I seem too annoying or anything, but I'm honestly curious.

No I don't find it annoying. No worries.

Really I can not judge who will be worthy of a resurrection or not, but the Bible does clearly say that there would be a resurrection of both the righteous and unrighteous.

John 5: 28, 29 - Do not marvel at this, because the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment.

Key words here are: those in the memorial tombs. Those who "practiced vile things" are given a resurrection as a second chance of sorts. There are some that are dead and that will NOT be resurrected though. The Bible speaks about those going off into "everlasting destruction." Aka Gehenna. That's pretty much the state of being dead with no hope of a resurrection.

God reads hearts and intentions. The deepest and truest feelings and emotions. He knows everyone from their start to finish so only he can judge who would be worthy and who wouldn't be.

[Aucune Raison]

God reads hearts and intentions. The deepest and truest feelings and emotions. He knows everyone from their start to finish so only he can judge who would be worthy and who wouldn't be.

But doesn't he create them to be that way? There is no "good or evil", just people influenced by different factors, which God is inevitably responsible for setting up. How is it fair to make someone be a certain way and then punish them for it?

God also (directly, in fact) created Satan, right?

[Forever Atlas]

Originally Posted by Aucune Raison

But doesn't he create them to be that way?

No. Otherwise that would be predetermining someone's life.

There is no "good or evil", just people influenced by different factors, which God is inevitably responsible for setting up.

There is good and there is evil according the scriptures. For us to deny that makes this discussion irrelevant. How is God responsible for what humans do with their own free will?

How is it fair to make someone be a certain way and then punish them for it?

God isn't making anyone any certain way.

God also (directly, in fact) created Satan, right?

God created the angel who rebelled and thus after became Satan yes. However Satan was once a faithful angel.

But now this is taking a side note to the main topic <.<

[Aucune Raison]

Originally Posted by Forever Atlas

No. Otherwise that would be predetermining someone's life.

So essentially you're saying "free will exists because free will exists"? If God created everything (knowing everything about it), he knows that creation will eventually give form to a certain thing made a certain way, as influenced by that creation made by God. God made that "thing" that way.

There is good and there is evil according the scriptures.

Where did that evil come from?

How is God responsible for what humans do with their own free will?

It's not free will when a person is made to think a certain way, or is ignorant of the situation, or is influenced by factors (ultimately made by God) to choose a certain path. It's an illusion.

God isn't making anyone any certain way.

What is, then?

God created the angel who rebelled and thus after became Satan yes. However Satan was once a faithful angel.

If God created Satan, he made him to rebel, right?

[Phoenix]

If only that was the way things worked :/

Shit no. Humans usually want the things worst for them.

[Square Ninja]

Originally Posted by Phoenix

Shit no. Humans usually want the things worst for them.

...like food and shelter.

[Phoenix]

...like food and shelter.

Yup, that's the only things human ask for.

[mad cunt]

I see hell as a trial of suffering, that's long been misinterpreted over the passing of the years.

[The Lionheart]

Old thread is old, but I came across something in the bible the other day . . .

Matthew 25: 29-30

"For the one who has will be given more, and he will have more than enough. But the one who does not have, even what he has will be taken from him. And throw that worthless slave into the outer darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth"

I felt that it is verses like these that give us our definition of hell. As Jesus is talking figuratively in this parable (The Parable of the Talents (Matthew 25:14-30; Luke 19:12-28) | Bible.org | Home of NET Bible on-line, Bible Study tools, Free Bible), I see this verse as an interpretation of the place.

I don't know if I'm seeing this correctly, but it just seems to me like it is verses like these that cause us to have ideas like this.

[_EX]

Originally Posted by Aucune Raison

If God created Satan, he made him to rebel, right?

The whole free choice thing comes to mind here. He did create him but I guess he was too nice and gave him free choice and he started being a douche. This idea isnt fully explainable though. I dont think it ever will be aswel. Spiritual history isnt an exact science.

[khobsessed01]

I would like to start by responding to Forever Atlas' original post:

Now while I know that many translations of the Bible do use the word "Hell," through my studies of the Bible I have come to the conclusion that this doctrine of being punished by means of Hell fire is not actually taught in the Bible.

FA, how did you come to that conclusion. There are many places in the Bible that speak of Hell. Jesus spoke about it quite a few times:

Mark 9:43 - If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out.

Matthew 24:51 - Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. (This is what Jesus will say to unrepentent sinners on Judgement Day)

Everyone at The Great White Throne Judgement will be cast into Hell (which is the Lake Of Fire), as described in Revelation 20: 15 - If anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

These are a few verses that depict what Hell is, and it isn't pretty.

I also realize that this doctrine is one reason that some turn away from - let us just say the Christian faith because that is taught in just about all major Christian denominations. It is generally accepted as a doctrine that holds fast with Bible truths within these religions. I know some personally who thought it was contradictory for a God of love to punish someone by hell fire. Others just didn't like the doctrine of hell being used as an element of fear to keep them "under control" as some of them put it.

This is what unbelievers say. That no loving God will send them to Hell, or it is used as a scare tactic. Well, it's not. The problem is people do not understand who God truly is, therefore don't understand why they would be sent to Hell. First of all, God does not send anyone to Hell. People choose to go there by rejecting God's Son, Jesus Christ. When you reject Him, you choose the opposite direction instead of eternal life. The truth is that God really IS love. He loved us so much that He sent Jesus to die for us on the cross. The purpose of the death and resurrection of Christ is so that we can come to repentence of our sins and accept Him as Lord and Savior. If you accept Christ, you are safe from Hell and your salvation is sealed with The Holy Spirit. Jesus spoke the truth when He said "Unless ye become like little children, ye shall likewise perish." As a Born-Again Christian, I take heed of what God says in His Word and follow Him every step of the way.

So focusing on the Christian religion I was wondering, especially for those of you who do accept the Bible and practice some form of Christianity, what are your views on Hell? Do you view it as a literal place of judgment? A symbolic place? or something else?

When you hear someone talk about Hell - what generally comes into your mind and why?

I would like to clear something up. Christianity is not a religion and it is definitely not a practice; It is a relationship with the one true God, Jesus Christ. I became a saved Christian this year after I accepted Christ as my Lord and Savior and God has shown me what Christianity is really about. Hell is really just as Heaven is real. Christ personally saved me so I would not suffer an eternity in the Lake of Fire.