The Rapture

[Forever Atlas]

I have met quite a few people that believe in this doctrine, the rapture. There have been several hit books and even movies based on this idea too.

I personally do not believe in the rapture. For those of you who do not know what it is here are a few definitions:

The belief that faithful Christians will be bodily caught up from the earth, suddenly taken out of the world, to be united with the Lord “in the air.” The word “rapture” is understood by some persons, but not by all, to be the meaning of 1*Thessalonians 4:17

"Rapture", when used in eschatological terms, is an English word used in place of the Latin word raptus, taken from the Vulgate of 1 Thessalonians 4:17. In Koine Greek, this word is harpazo, which means "caught up" or "taken away." The word "rapture" is an English transliteration of the word, but is not used in any Bible translation.

This idea as stated is taken from the text in the Greek scriptures at 1 Thessalonians 4:17.

I'll quote that too.

1 Thess. 4:13-18, RS: “We would not have you ignorant, brethren, concerning those who are asleep [“those who sleep in death,” NE; “those who have died,” TEV, JB], that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope. For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep. For this we declare to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, shall not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the archangel’s call, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first; then we who are alive, who are left, shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and so we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words.”

So here we go. I've always considered this a tough subject to talk about because there's a lot you have to look at to come to your conclusion of what the scriptures were saying.

My question is for you who believe in the Bible, do you believe in the doctrine of the rapture? And if you do, why?

[Aucune Raison]

It may surprise you, but I've read the entire Left Behind series. It's a good work of fiction. Obviously I fastforwarded the preachy bits.

Revelations is like the craziest part in the Bible. There are lots of visions, obscure metaphors, monsters, and the like. The way that Dr. Tim LaHaye pieces it and other Bible parts together to form the Rapture, Tribulation, Second Coming, and Millenial Kingdom makes absolutely no sense. The book series is full of contradictions, holes, and impossibilities.

I find your views on it a lot more sensible from a Biblical standpoint.

[Forever Atlas]

AH! Left behind. For the life of me, I could not remember the name of the series. Yeah, it's true. Not only are there so many holes in the books, but in the doctrine itself. It's pretty contradictory with the rest of the Bible :/

[Shade737]

So basically if you keep on being a true Christian then you won't have to worry about the rapture being true or not becasue the way i see it is if it ends up being true or not it still has the same good result at the end which is all that matters.

[Phoenix]

So basically if you keep on being a true Christian then you won't have to worry about the rapture being true or not becasue the way i see it is if it ends up being true or not it still has the same good result at the end which is all that matters.

Yes, if you ignore the "search for understanding and truth" bit =/

[Dogenzaka]

Ohhh yes. The Rapture.
I have a timeline card with scriptures and references for what is to happen in the End Times at my church, but I won't be able to grab it until Sunday XD

And if you do, why?

Uh, yeah. Why not?
The Bible mentions it.

But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers and sisters, about those who have died, so that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope. For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have died. For this we declare to you by the Word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will by no means precede those who have died. For the Lord Himself, with a shout, with the archangel's call and with the sound of God's trumpet, will descend from heaven, and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up in the clouds together with them to meet the Lord in the air; and so we will be with the Lord forever. Therefore encourage one another with these words (1 Thessalonians 4:13-18).

"Listen, I will tell you a mystery! We will not all die, but we will all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. For this perishable body must put on imperishability, and this mortal body must put on immortality. When this perishable body puts on imperishability, and this mortal body puts on immortality, then the saying that is written will be fulfilled: "Death has been swallowed up in victory." "Where, O death, is your victory? Where, O death, is your sting?" The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore, my beloved, be steadfast, immovable, always excelling in the work of the Lord, because you know that in the Lord your labor is not in vain (1 Corinthians 15:51-58). "

35 “Let your waist be girded and your lamps burning; 36 and you yourselves be like men who wait for their master, when he will return from the wedding, that when he comes and knocks they may open to him immediately. 37 Blessed are those servants whom the master, when he comes, will find watching. Assuredly, I say to you that he will gird himself and have them sit down to eat, and will come and serve them. 38 And if he should come in the second watch, or come in the third watch, and find them so, blessed are those servants. 39 But know this, that if the master of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched and[a] not allowed his house to be broken into. 40 Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.” Luke 12:35-40

[Phoenix]

So basically if you keep on being a true Christian then you won't have to worry about the rapture being true or not becasue the way i see it is if it ends up being true or not it still has the same good result at the end which is all that matters.

Yes, if you ignore the "search for understanding and truth" bit =/

[Jaxx]

Originally Posted by Dogenzaka

Ohhh yes. The Rapture.
I have a timeline card with scriptures and references for what is to happen in the End Times at my church, but I won't be able to grab it until Sunday XD



Uh, yeah. Why not?
The Bible mentions it.

But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers and sisters, about those who have died, so that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope. For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have died. For this we declare to you by the Word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will by no means precede those who have died. For the Lord Himself, with a shout, with the archangel's call and with the sound of God's trumpet, will descend from heaven, and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up in the clouds together with them to meet the Lord in the air; and so we will be with the Lord forever. Therefore encourage one another with these words (1 Thessalonians 4:13-18).

"Listen, I will tell you a mystery! We will not all die, but we will all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. For this perishable body must put on imperishability, and this mortal body must put on immortality. When this perishable body puts on imperishability, and this mortal body puts on immortality, then the saying that is written will be fulfilled: "Death has been swallowed up in victory." "Where, O death, is your victory? Where, O death, is your sting?" The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore, my beloved, be steadfast, immovable, always excelling in the work of the Lord, because you know that in the Lord your labor is not in vain (1 Corinthians 15:51-58). "

35 “Let your waist be girded and your lamps burning; 36 and you yourselves be like men who wait for their master, when he will return from the wedding, that when he comes and knocks they may open to him immediately. 37 Blessed are those servants whom the master, when he comes, will find watching. Assuredly, I say to you that he will gird himself and have them sit down to eat, and will come and serve them. 38 And if he should come in the second watch, or come in the third watch, and find them so, blessed are those servants. 39 But know this, that if the master of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched and[a] not allowed his house to be broken into. 40 Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.” Luke 12:35-40

This is where I stand as well. IMO I don't think God will put his people through his own wrath.

[Forever Atlas]

I would have to disagree. I'm going to type up something with my views and reasons for that. It may take me a while so I'll be back when I'm done =p

[Jaxx]

Originally Posted by Forever Atlas

I would have to disagree. I'm going to type up something with my views and reasons for that. It may take me a while so I'll be back when I'm done =p

looking foward to it ;D

I'd love to hear the other side on this

[mad cunt]

So from what I understand, those who have died so far aren't yet in heaven with the lord, but sleeping until the rapture, where they will then rise up with the living to be with god?

[Dogenzaka]

It's also confusing, but some people believe the Judgment to be an event that exists outside time, (this isn't Biblical, simply speculation), and everyone that dies is simply present at the event after they die, even though people die at different times. Those who are alive when the Lord returns will be "raptured" to Heaven with Him, and then comes the entire book of Revelation and the Final Judgment where everyone is Judged and either cast into the Eternal Fire or to reign with God in the New Heaven and New Earth with no pain and suffering for eternity, like it should have been in the Garden of Eden.



Then again, it's also possible that everyone simply sleeps until the coming of the Lord.

I'll have to look into it more and ask what my pastors and leaders think about the issue, though.

I'm pretty sure, however, it's that when someone who's a believer dies, they go to Heaven with God and wait until Rapture/Tribulation/etc. occurs, to where the rest of the believers will be reunited with the ones in Heaven, and then Judgment and everything occurs and the New Heaven and New Earth are created and then the believers will rule over that.

While those that didn't choose God, will not be with him in Heaven when they die, and then suffer final and eternal punishment at Judgment Day, and those that are still alive and not believers will have their last chances during the Tribulation where everything starts to go wrong.

[Aucune Raison]

Someone made the point (might have been here) that if God makes you perfect in Heaven, then you lose all flaws and what makes up your personality. So it's not really "you" that goes there, just an emotionless spirit of sorts. Or am I just mistranslating the "meaning" behind it all?

Also, what happens to those who never had contact or a true "pitch" from Judaism/Christianity?

[mad cunt]

It's supposed to be a christian's responsibility to spread the news of Jesus, so would they be punished on behalf of those who have never heard it?

[Prophet]

One must also consider, that the Book of Revelations is apocalyptic literature; it is written in an allusionary code, with meaning that is night impossible to confirm at this day and age. It's true meaning is hard to take at face value; various images intended to mean different things, etc. (Apocalyptic literature - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

As for the Rapture, it is possible that it shares in Revelations apocalyptic nature; words with meaning that could be understood my Christians of that age, but that seem fantastical to modern day theologians/historians/scientists/whoever.