Why Does God Allow Suffering? (For those who Believe in God)

[Forever Atlas]

I actually just revived an old thread with the same title, however it was pretty old, so I deleted the message that revived it and figured I'd make a new thread with the same topic.

It is something that's always on people's minds. Suffering, hardships, problems of every sort plague humankind. It seems as the days go on, things get worse for a lot of people. It's harder to live each day more than it was the day before. The economy, family problems, wars, crime, deaths etc. we all know the problems that we each have to face day to day.

Some people face other problems more than we do. Usually, no matter how bad our situation is, there are still others who have things worse. But everyone has big problems in their own ways.

So this being a religious thread, there is a question that a lot of people ask is "WHY?" one word that has been uttered off the lips of many people earth wide for decades and centuries. Even more so today.

So why do you think God lets all this suffering happen? (geared especially towards those who do believe in God)

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[Shamdeo]

How about: why should God have to intervene on an every day basis to make sure everyone is okay? Divine intervention like that would only foster a relationship where we need God as an everpresent diviner.

The question: "Why does God let us suffer?" is in itself pointed being that we assume that God is responsible for human created suffering.

[RisingOblivion]

He can't get to everyone, and if there wasn't any suffering or sadness then we wouldn't know what happiness or joy was. We also wouldn't be as thankful, or thankful for anything good because nothing bad had ever happened to us. Although some things are too horrible for anybody to deserve and I don't know why God would let us suffer on some of the worst things.

[Enchanted Rose]

Hmm, I'll just add a few haphazard thoughts.

*If the world was perfect, then the world would be God.

*A secular view might be something along the lines of "What doesn't kill us, only makes us stronger", and a more Christian view might be as follows:
"The darker the night - the brighter the stars,
The deeper the grief - the closer is God"


A classic (and topical) example, I think, would be Jesus' crucifixion. His suffering was so intense, that his glory might be greater - with the resurrection and ascension.

Suffering can prompt a transformation of humanity, just as sinning can usher in a redemption.

So, what I'm saying is: In a utilitarian view, sometimes suffering can be 'for the greater good' - eventually, thus helping justify it.

[Forever Atlas]

- (This part I was actually going to post in the old thread but since I figured I'd make a new thread I'll put it here) I chose to revisit and revive that thread (although old) because of something that I've seen popping up in the forum quite a bit. The idea of God (esp. the one in the Hebrew and Greek Christian scriptures) being cruel or not caring.

I was doing a little more reading and I came upon another article. I realize though that this is probably not a good article for those who do not believe in God at all, however for those who may just need a little reassurance that he cares.

Link: Why Does God Let Us Suffer?

I find it interesting that even Bible writers and prophets within the Bible had the same feelings. Some felt that God had abandoned them or that he didn't even care. They felt, if he has the power, then he should just get rid of mankind's problems now. Of course that's an imperfect human view. They were reassured of God's word, as we too can be.

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That's interesting, many people that I have posed that same question to have either said flat out that he doesn't care or they don't know. The fact is many people do assume God is to blame for the problems we have, however as the Bible brings out, it's quite to the contrary.

The following I'm actually taking from the same old thread most of it:

This is what I personally believe why God permits suffering. I'm sure not everyone will agree.


1 Peter 4: 7 is just one scripture that shows us God cares about us - while YOU throw all YOUR anxiety upon him, because he cares for YOU.

God not only tells us that he cares, but invites us to throw our problems upon him. Now people may scoff at this and say that still wont take away our problems, and that may be true.

Well look at this then, first we have to realize that our thinking and God's thinking are completely different. We see things from a human standpoint, a very short lived one. God, who has been around for all eternity has perfect thought processes, and not just that has seen everything. He knows the perfect way to deal with matters.

Isaiah 55: 8, 9 - “For the thoughts of YOU people are not my thoughts, nor are my ways YOUR ways,” is the utterance of Jehovah. “For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so my ways are higher than YOUR ways, and my thoughts than YOUR thoughts

So then why still suffering? Well its a good thing that even though God's thought processes are higher than ours, he doesn't leave humans in the dark.

Suffering, what causes it? We know humans have dominated man to his injury. We might live in a pretty peaceful area, not too many problems around us, but on a world scale. Wars, crime, etc. have been problems of man. However, historians and professionals agree that since the 20th century all the way today, mankind has been enduring a history unlike any other through mankind's days. Wars get worse, crime gets worse, diseases get more widespread, corruption... these things have always been around, but its worse today than it was than ever before.

“The last completely ‘normal’ year in history was 1913, the year before World War I began.”—Editorial in the Times-Herald, Washington, D.C., March 13, 1949.

“Increasingly, the 75-year period from 1914 to 1989, covering two world wars and the cold war, is being seen by historians as a single, discrete epoch, a time apart in which much of the world was fighting war, recovering from war or preparing for war.”—The New York Times, May 7, 1995.

“The whole world really blew up about World War I and we still don’t know why. Before then, men thought that utopia was in sight. There was peace and prosperity. Then everything blew up. We’ve been in a state of suspended animation ever since. More people have been killed in this century than in all of history.”—Dr. Walker Percy, American Medical News, November 21, 1977.

More than 50 years after 1914, German statesman Konrad Adenauer wrote: “Security and quiet have disappeared from the lives of men since 1914.”—The West Parker, Cleveland, Ohio, January 20, 1966.

Sure a lot of these quotes are old, but then again things have only gotten worse since those times. Those are just a few examples not all.

The cause?

1 John 5: 19 tells us - We know we originate with God, but the whole world is lying in the [power of the] wicked one.

Revelation 12: 9 - So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him.

Now Satan raised the issue of this way back in the garden of eden

Genesis 3: 2- 5 - At this the woman said to the serpent: “Of the fruit of the trees of the garden we may eat. *But as for [eating] of the fruit of the tree that is in the middle of the garden, God has said, ‘YOU must not eat from it, no, YOU must not touch it that YOU do not die.’” At this the serpent said to the woman: “YOU positively will not die.*For God knows that in the very day of YOUR eating from it YOUR eyes are bound to be opened and YOU are bound to be like God, KNOWING good and bad.”

He claimed, that humans, all creation, were capable of being able to do what they want, and rule for their own self, without God. The BIG PICTURE? This was an attack on God’s sovereignty, his right to rule

Remember, God had purposed for this earth to be perfect, filled with humans in a happy enviornment enjoying life to its fullest. That all went down the drain when Adam and Eve sinned.

BUT! God's purpose hasn't changed and he does plan on implementing it again.

An excerpt from the Book "What Does The Bible Really Teach" -

Let us consider an illustration. Imagine that a teacher is telling his students how to solve a difficult problem. A clever but rebellious student claims that the teacher’s way of solving the problem is wrong. Implying that the teacher is not capable, this rebel insists that he knows a much better way to solve the problem. Some students think that he is right, and they also become rebellious. What should the teacher do? If he throws the rebels out of the class, what will be the effect on the other students? Will they not believe that their fellow student and those who joined him are right? All the other students in the class might lose respect for the teacher, thinking that he is afraid of being proved wrong. But suppose that the teacher allows the rebel to show the class how he would solve the problem.

Jehovah has done something similar to what the teacher does. Remember that the rebels in Eden were not the only ones involved. Millions of angels were watching. (Job 38:7; Daniel 7:10) How Jehovah handled the rebellion would greatly affect all those angels and eventually all intelligent creation. So, what has Jehovah done? He has allowed Satan to show how he would rule mankind. God has also allowed humans to govern themselves under Satan’s guidance.

The teacher in our illustration knows that the rebel and the students on his side are wrong. But he also knows that allowing them the opportunity to try to prove their point will benefit the whole class. When the rebels fail, all honest students will see that the teacher is the only one qualified to lead the class. They will understand why the teacher thereafter removes any rebels from the class. Similarly, Jehovah knows that all honest-hearted humans and angels will benefit from seeing that Satan and his fellow rebels have failed and that humans cannot govern themselves. Like Jeremiah of old, they will learn this vital truth: “I well know, O Jehovah, that to earthling man his way does not belong. It does not belong to man who is walking even to direct his step.”—Jeremiah 10:23.

Another excerpt from the book "What Does The Bible Really Teach" (puts it in better words than I can):

Why, though, has Jehovah allowed suffering to go on for so long? And why does he not prevent bad things from happening? Well, consider two things that the teacher in our illustration would not do. First, he would not stop the rebel student from presenting his case. Second, the teacher would not help the rebel to make his case. Similarly, consider two things that Jehovah has determined not to do. First, he has not stopped Satan and those who side with him from trying to prove that they are right. Allowing time to pass has thus been necessary. In the thousands of years of human history, mankind has been able to try every form of self-rule, or human government. Mankind has made some advances in science and other fields, but injustice, poverty, crime, and war have grown ever worse. Human rule has now been shown to be a failure.

Second, Jehovah has not helped Satan to rule this world. If God were to prevent horrible crimes, for instance, would he not, in effect, be supporting the case of the rebels? Would God not be making people think that perhaps humans can govern themselves without disastrous results? If Jehovah were to act in that way, he would become party to a lie. However, “it is impossible for God to lie.”—Hebrews 6:18.

What, though, about all the harm that has been done during the long rebellion against God? We do well to remember that Jehovah is almighty. Therefore, he can and will undo the effects of mankind’s suffering. As we have already learned, the ruining of our planet will be undone by the turning of the earth into Paradise. The effects of sin will be removed through faith in Jesus’ ransom sacrifice, and the effects of death will be reversed by means of the resurrection. God will thus use Jesus “to break up the works of the Devil.” (1 John 3:8) Jehovah will bring all of this about at just the right time. We can be glad that he has not acted sooner, for his patience has given us the opportunity to learn the truth and to serve him. (2 Peter 3:9, 10)

2 Peter 3: 9, 10 - Jehovah is not slow respecting his promise, as some people consider slowness, but he is patient with YOU because he does not desire any to be destroyed but desires all to attain to repentance. Yet Jehovah’s day will come as a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a hissing noise, but the elements being intensely hot will be dissolved, and earth and the works in it will be discovered.

Meanwhile, God has been actively seeking sincere worshipers and helping them to endure any suffering that may come upon them in this troubled world.—John 4:23; 1 Corinthians 10:13.

Some might wonder, Could all this suffering have been prevented if God had created Adam and Eve in such a way that they could not rebel? To answer that question, you need to remember a precious gift that Jehovah has given you.

^ BTW The Gift = Free will that is. Now back to what God will do. So the reason why he hasnt done anything is there, but now on to when and what he promises to do.

As was mentioned above, God's Messianic Kingdom, headed by Jesus Christ, will bring an end to these things. The miracles that Jesus performed while he was on earth, wasnt to wow people. It was not only an act of care and compassion, but also a foreshadowing of what his kingdom rule will bring.

just a few things we can expect under that rule-

“He will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore.”—Revelation 21:4

“The lame one will climb up just as a stag does.”—Isaiah 35:6

“The eyes of the blind ones will be opened.”—Isaiah 35:5

“All those in the memorial tombs will .*.*. come out.”—John 5:28, 29

“No resident will say: ‘I am sick.’”—Isaiah 33:24

“There will come to be plenty of grain on the earth.”—Psalm 72:16

Now we don't know exactly when this will take place, but the Bible does explain to us signs and world events that would occur to tell us that these things were near.

So its not that God doesn't care, he does and he will do away will all sorts of suffering. Just always remember, his thought processes are above ours. So we may not always see why or accept reasons for things.

That's what I believe, now Im not telling anyone to take my beliefs or anything, as others have posted their own thoughts, these are mine too.
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I'd go on, but I think I'll stop for now. I don't want to sound preachy but I see and hear it over and over again the same thing, same questions or same statements about God letting people suffer.

[Shamdeo]

Originally Posted by Forever Atlas

I'd go on, but I think I'll stop for now. I don't want to sound preachy but I see and hear it over and over again the same thing, same questions or same statements about God letting people suffer.

Maybe because that's what people actually think. Were you looking for the answer you wanted?

[Reika Noko]

Originally Posted by RisingOblivion

He can't get to everyone

Then He is not omnipotent.

If He was, then surely He would and can get to everyone. But we ask why He doesn't and let's humanity suffer, which might imply that He is not omnibenevolent either. Therefore, if God cannot be omnipotent because he is not omnibenevolent, then the perfect God does not exist. And therefore, I believe that benevolence and malevolence must co-exist, even in God, or else He is not omnipotent. That is because, since there is evil in this world, He allows it to exist or else we wouldn't know what a sin is either. It is something that must exist in order for good in the world to exist.

Therefore, if God creates a rock to heavy even for Him to lift, then He is not omnipotent.

[Forever Atlas]

Originally Posted by Shamdeo

Maybe because that's what people actually think. Were you looking for the answer you wanted?

I know that's what people think. Every day I turn on the news and I hear people blame God for stupid stuff. Then on this forum too there are many people who question God's actions or lack thereof. Was I looking for the answer I wanted? I just wanted to hear what people's views are and share my views from my own personal beliefs. So far I do [roughly] agree with the people who have posted be they few.

[RisingOblivion]

Wow ,very interesting. Thanks for the info! Yeah, the world has gotten worse and is probally at it's worst, so far. I think people kill each other over the stupidest things. Money-there is plenty of it out there. Revenge- feel sorry for the other person because they are the ones who did wrong and they will punished eventully. There are plenty of other reasons that are not good either. I don't think there are any reasons for you to kill someone over. (maybe there are some I can't think of but God wouldn't want that anyways.) ( I know that's off subject but just throwing that out there.)

[Noich]

because there is no god. or he does exist, and he's just a sick piece of shit.

[Angel]

Originally Posted by Tight Like Amy

because there is no god. or he does exist, and he's just a sick piece of shit.

dammit you beat me

[Noich]

Originally Posted by Angelus

dammit you beat me

teehee :)

[Forever Atlas]

As was said, this thread is generally pointed toward those who do believe in God. There are enough God exists/doesn't exist threads out there. That is, just about every thread in the religious section turns into that. I don't really want this one to turn into that too.

[Gildragon]

Originally Posted by Sermon on the Mount

Mat 5:3 Blessed [are] the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.


Mat 5:4 Blessed [are] they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.


Mat 5:5 Blessed [are] the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.


Mat 5:6 Blessed [are] they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.


Mat 5:7 Blessed [are] the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.


Mat 5:8 Blessed [are] the pure in heart: for they shall see God.


Mat 5:9 Blessed [are] the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.


Mat 5:10 Blessed [are] they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.


Mat 5:11 Blessed are ye, when [men] shall revile you, and persecute [you], and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.


Mat 5:12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great [is] your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

Kind of with some stuff ER said. All of what suffering happens can come back to a GREATer reward.

It also falls back to original sin. Had man not sinned. we wouldnt' have been banished from Grace.
As a Christian Belief really the only way for anyone to escape ANY kind of suffering (ATM)
is by being in heaven

[~azure.requiem]

~ not only so, but we rejoice in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; perseverance, character; and character, hope.
-- romans 5:3-4 NIV