Because Justice Closed the Other Thread - Religious Beliefs (continued)

[Forever Atlas]

http://forums.khinsider.com/religiou...fs-now-12.html

In reply to kerobaroes:

okay i read the post and it only goes to prove one of the main things that i can't stand about the Christian religion, if a person (a child molester say) were to do many bad things (like raping small children) and right before being given the death sentence pleaded with God and apologized for his past sins, had a priest bless the person, and said person died feeling bad for what he had done he will be saved by God and/or go to Heaven?!?! because in my book two wrongs don't make a right.

God isn't stupid. That guy is only sorry because he is about to die. He's not truly sorry. God doesn't forgive those who simply "apologize."

Like I said, God has perfect justice. He knows exactly how a person should be dealt with accordingly and if they should be judged adversely or given blessings. Just because you feel one person should never have a second chance because of past wrongs doesn't mean they shouldn't. Just because a person feels they SHOULD have another chance does not necessarily mean they should.

A person has to truly REPENT, TURN AROUND, and FOLLOW A GODLY COURSE IN LIFE.

and once again, that little thing about "good people go to heaven" is not a Bible teaching either. So no.

really??? because i was under the imppression that a very small percentage of the world's population was actually Christian.

Oh, are we still on the Christian thing? Thought it was about people believing in a god and following him. Hmm, never mind.

If i didn't do my own research i would have been shut down by people like you long ago.

People like me? Explain.

personally i don't want to wait for suffering to end because a Messiah doesn't deem the time right

lol

that's because as others have said as well, Hell is not in the Bible because in the Bible it merely refers to an in between of places, a limbo really. (which I found fascinating after all the sermons i had to listen to about repenting or perishing in Hell lol)

Actually, hell is just a grave, six feet under, the place where our bodies are buried and nothing happens except us decomposing.

*cough* The OT is full of God sending down meteors and floods to punish sinners, you know.
which does bring up my posts of how God can be so benevolent and yet punish people for not worshipping him.

1 - He ALWAYS gives ample time and warning to all before carrying out any destruction. Those who listen are saved. Those who don't, that's their own fault.

2 - He has all right to be worshiped. That's the whole issue of the Bible, the whole thing on the line, God's right to be worshiped. So either you are on his side, and worship him, or you are on satan's side and do as you please.

That's the issue at hand. Satan said, mankind can do as they please and do not need God. Humans want to do whatever they want. See how far that has gotten us?

[UsagiOkami]

LOL I KNEW someone would make another one!!!!

A person has to truly REPENT, TURN AROUND, and FOLLOW A GODLY COURSE IN LIFE.

and once again, that little thing about "good people go to heaven" is not a Bible teaching either. So no.

so if said person after committing such crimes repented God would forgive him???? and i know about the heaven bit, it was just an example since the masses seem to believe it.

Oh, are we still on the Christian thing? Thought it was about people believing in a god and following him. Hmm, never mind.

the God and circumstances you speak of are a Christian/Jew God, so yes we are still on that.

People like me? Explain.

nothing mean meant by it, merely that as a Hindu i've had to defend my beliefs before, and if i didn't have me facts straight i would have looked like a fool. and by you i just meant those that believe what they believe and actually know their religion.

lol

Now why would he have gone there if it is a place of torment and punishment with fire?

what? you don't seem to understand what i was saying, i was reffereing to all the problems the world is having that God won't help with. I was saying i don't want to wait for that suffering to end when some Messiah deems it fit.

Actually, hell is just a grave, six feet under, the place where our bodies are buried and nothing happens except us decomposing.

not according to what i've heard, and if you're going to be reffering to what hell really is, it's the Earth.

Quote:
Wait, letting someone die when you can stop it isn't almost the same thing? Never mind eternal life for now, allowing a thing when you could easily stop it isn't comparable to doing the thing itself?
i agree, through inaction one can be just as guilty of the crime as the one who commited it.

what does that have to do with it?

2 - He has all right to be worshiped. That's the whole issue of the Bible, the whole thing on the line, God's right to be worshiped. So either you are on his side, and worship him, or you are on satan's side and do as you please.

That's the issue at hand. Satan said, mankind can do as they please and do not need God. Humans want to do whatever they want. See how far that has gotten us?

now i thought that according to most Satan ruled over Hell? so if Hell doesn't exist how does Satan?

[Forever Atlas]

Originally Posted by kerobaroes

LOL I KNEW someone would make another one!!!!

so if said person after committing such crimes repented God would forgive him????

That's up to God. We can not make those judgment calls. If a person after knowing the laws of God and continue doing what is wrong, they could in effect commit the unforgivable sin, that is grieving the holy spirit.

Still, I can not say yes or no to that answer. God is giving everyone the time to change and repent. Its up to him and he knows who is worthy of being forgiven or not.

and i know about the heaven bit, it was just an example since the masses seem to believe it.

Forget the masses in this discussion. I am not part of that.

what? you don't seem to understand what i was saying, i was reffereing to all the problems the world is having that God won't help with. I was saying i don't want to wait for that suffering to end when some Messiah deems it fit.

That was a typo

not according to what i've heard, and if you're going to be reffering to what hell really is, it's the Earth.

Like I said, six feet under. The ground we are buried in.

I had a whole thread on that same subject a while back.

There are a few different words used in the Bible that are incorrectly interpreted as this "hell" -

Hebrew she’ohl′ and Greek hai′des, both referring to (according to the original language) the common grave of dead mankind
And the Greek ge′en·na which is used as a symbol of eternal destruction (also was an actual place where garbage among other things were burned with sulfer completely destroying the items).

now i thought that according to most Satan ruled over Hell? so if Hell doesn't exist how does Satan?

No, Satan was another spirit being that rebelled (and led the rebellion) against God. He is the influence behind the bad in the world and God's enemy. I'm speaking about Bible teachings, not what some religious leader pulled out of his butt.

The Bible nowhere says Satan rules over Hell. Once again going back to the point of no such place. Rather, the Bible says that Jesus is the one with the keys to the grave and hades (aka hell) and authority over all those who are dead. He can bring back to life the dead in other words.

[UsagiOkami]

Still, I can not say yes or no to that answer. God is giving everyone the time to change and repent. Its up to him and he knows who is worthy of being forgiven or not.

so if nobody can determine that then how can anyone say that what someone is doing is wrong? if only God can determine and nobody knows what God wishes completely then how can someone even be punished for wrong doing?

Forget the masses in this discussion. I am not part of that.

very well, though i can't promise i won't bring up something the masses believe since i was taught about the religion for the most part be the masses.

That was a typo

then what did you mean to say?

I had a whole thread on that same subject a while back.

no offense but you type a lot of things and i'm not going to read through 50 pages of posts, so if you want to say something from it please just tell me as i don't have the patience to read that much.

No, Satan was another spirit being that rebelled against God. I'm speaking about Bible teachings, not what some religious leader pulled out of his butt.

well then what is he all about then! because now i'm confused, Satan exists but not how i've been told, so where is he????

[Aucune Raison]

There's a reason JUSTICE closed the thread.

I don't think I said this in that one. I'm an atheist who believes in science, at least what has been proved, including evolution. I'm not sure about the Big Bang, but I try not to focus on creation.

I kinda think that some sort of reincarnation may exist, but moreso as a continuation through the natural process.

[Watson]

I'm beggining to get tired of this debate. Nobody's gonna change what they believe in because some guy they don't even know writes something on a forum. This is pointless.

[Watson]

Originally Posted by Forever Atlas

The Bible nowhere says Satan rules over Hell. Once again going back to the point of no such place. Rather, the Bible says that Jesus is the one with the keys to the grave and hades (aka hell) and authority over all those who are dead. He can bring back to life the dead in other words.

So, If he can, why has he not?

[Sorry for double posting. I just noticed atlas's post and responded.]

[Forever Atlas]

Originally Posted by kerobaroes

so if nobody can determine that then how can anyone say that what someone is doing is wrong? if only God can determine and nobody knows what God wishes completely then how can someone even be punished for wrong doing?

God has set out guidelines on what is write and wrong, both direct laws and principles. A person whose conscience is trained by those teachings will know what is right and wrong according to God.

The thing that God is determining is if the person is really repentant and if his heart condition is right. We can not read hearts. Only God can.

very well, though i can't promise i won't bring up something the masses believe since i was taught about the religion for the most part be the masses.

That's fine. That's why the Bible says "the whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one" and that they have been blinded and misled from fundamental truths. True the masses believe one thing, however it is not the original teaching of the Bible. But that's fine if you bring it up.

then what did you mean to say?

Actually it was from your post before, I just left it there by accident. I meant to delete it, what you read were your own words :/

no offense but you type a lot of things and i'm not going to read through 50 pages of posts, so if you want to say something from it please just tell me as i don't have the patience to read that much.

That's fine. I said what I needed to say.

well then what is he all about then! because now i'm confused, Satan exists but not how i've been told, so where is he????

Well, where is he?

Revelation clearly says this: (12:7-9) - And war broke out in heaven: Mi´cha·el and his angels battled with the dragon, and the dragon and its angels battled but it did not prevail, neither was a place found for them any longer in heaven. So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him.

So he's here on Earth. Bible chronology points to the time of him being hurled to earth in 1914, the time when Jesus took his seat on the throne in God's Heavenly Kingdom, the start of the last days. Also the time the world conditions spiraled down the drain on a level never before seen in history.

You can also look at this article (mainly under the heading a little down the page what the scriptures teach):

Satan--Myth or Sinister Reality?

Originally Posted by Ragione

There's a reason JUSTICE closed the thread.

Because he posted a thread in a religious section of a forum where he didn't want the only subject to be religion?

Originally Posted by ShadowofDespair

I'm beggining to get tired of this debate. Nobody's gonna change what they believe in because some guy they don't even know writes something on a forum. This is pointless.

It's not about changing what others believe. However, I can tell you this, a few have actually changed their beliefs, PMed me and told me actually :/

Originally Posted by ShadowofDespair

So, If he can, why has he not?

He did during his time on earth and he will again.

[UsagiOkami]

God has set out guidelines on what is write and wrong, both direct laws and principles. A person whose conscience is trained by those teachings will know what is right and wrong according to God.

The thing that God is determining is if the person is really repentant and if his heart condition is right. We can not read hearts. Only God can.

where are these guidlines set out?

So he's here on Earth. Bible chronology points to the time of him being hurled to earth in 1914, the time when Jesus took his seat on the throne in God's Heavenly Kingdom, the start of the last days. Also the time the world conditions spiraled down the drain on a level never before seen in history.

ack thats what i said! see:

not according to what i've heard, and if you're going to be reffering to what hell really is, it's the Earth.

that's what i said!

[Forever Atlas]

Originally Posted by kerobaroes

where are these guidlines set out?

For Christians, it's God's written word, the Bible.

ack thats what i said! see: that's what i said!

Well, not exactly. You are mixing the two.

Satan is on Earth now. He has not always been confined to the realms on Earth. Also going back to Hell, it is the common grave of mankind and he does not rule over that.

[Watson]

He did during his time on earth and he will again....

By killing anyone who doesn't believe in him perhaps?


And you're right. Satan is on earth. His name Starts with a George, Followed by a Dubya... I think you can figure out the rest.

[Forever Atlas]

Originally Posted by ShadowofDespair

He did during his time on earth and he will again....

By killing anyone who doesn't believe in him perhaps?

?? Where are you getting this? Please go back and read my posts before. Please. You are just saying the same thing people have been saying over and over. I've already replied to that.

Once again, it's not those who do not believe in Him, those who will be judged with destruction are those whose hearts are wicked and those who have had their chance to learn about God and follow him, yet reject him.

Many people have not had the chance to learn about God, He will not punish those for what they do not know.

[UsagiOkami]

For Christians, it's God's written word, the Bible.

according to everyone i've talked to and they believe the same (for the most part) as you, the Bible is merely peoples beliefs on the matter due to the fact that the first of the books was written about 30 years after Jesus's death.

Well, not exactly. You are mixing the two.

Satan is on Earth now. He has not always been confined to the realms on Earth. Also going back to Hell, it is the common grave of mankind and he does not rule over that.

lol just remembered saying "hell on earth" i guess in that sense it was right! if Satan resides in earth, and commonly people believe that Satan resides in Hell, i guess the phrase could hold true lol.

And you're right. Satan is on earth. His name Starts with a George, Followed by a Dubya... I think you can figure out the rest.

OUCH!!!! harsh but i love it!

[Forever Atlas]

Originally Posted by kerobaroes

according to everyone i've talked to and they believe the same (for the most part) as you, the Bible is merely peoples beliefs on the matter due to the fact that the first of the books was written about 30 years after Jesus's death.

You've probably spoken to nonbelievers about that. Or people who do not know much about the Bible. >.>

The first of the books were written WAAAAAY before Jesus made his appearance on Earth. First book Genesis, written by Moses completed around 1513*B.C.E.

Now it is true some books were written after some events. Some were written during events in the Bible and some were written well before events in other sections of the Bible. Regardless, Christians believe (or should) what the scriptures say here:

2 Timothy 3: 16- All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness.

[UsagiOkami]

You've probably spoken to nonbelievers about that. Or people who do not know much about the Bible. >.>

actually they were Christian and quoted the bible more then you, and provided links as well if i recall.

The first of the books were written WAAAAAY before Jesus made his appearance on Earth. First book Genesis, written by Moses completed around 1513*B.C.E.

how do we know that?