The Last Days

[Forever Atlas]

well if you want the book i could get you a free copy too if you are really willing to read it and not just look into it for what is "wrong" or "inaccurate" cause i think you mentioned... searching for ourselves and not being led by just any idea? so hey we'd have to look at all paths no?

[Angel Shards]

Smooth, I have no idea what you are talking about. You are telling people to PM you about some stupid revealtion nonsense if they are interested, and now you are telling me you can't post here what you'd post in a PM 'cause it's a book?

...are you on drugs?

[Forever Atlas]

lol are you? cause its pretty easy to understand. The guy i was talking to, i said if you would like to know more PM me... in the PM i was going to offer him the book and tell him a little about what it is. and no i cant post the Book on here... i never said i'd post it in a PM. I would give them the book personally or give them the source to get the book.

(btw i dont appreciate the "stupid" remark)

[Einon SAMA]

Then what about the righteous enjoying the earth forever? (Psalms 27:28)

FACT: The past 1500 years there have been a total of 901 major wars.
In the year 1914 (the year Jehovah's Witnesses claim Jesus to have been enthroned as king of God's heavently kingdom that is soon to come up on the the earth (Daniel 2;44)) WWI did 2 times as much damage than ALL of those wars, and WWII was even worse.

We are definately living in the last days.

[Forever Atlas]

If you are willing to read why I say and come to the conclusion of the last days starting in 1914:

Two lines of evidence point to that year: (1)*Bible chronology and (2)*the events since 1914 in fulfillment of prophecy. Here we will consider the chronology. For fulfillment of prophecy, see the main heading “Last Days.”

Read Daniel 4:1-17. Verses 20-37 show that this prophecy had a fulfillment upon Nebuchadnezzar. But it also has a larger fulfillment. How do we know that? Verses 3 and 17 show that the dream that God gave to King Nebuchadnezzar deals with the Kingdom of God and God’s promise to give it “to the one whom he wants to .*.*. even the lowliest one of mankind.” The entire Bible shows that Jehovah’s purpose is for his own Son, Jesus Christ, to rule as His representative over mankind. (Ps. 2:1-8; Dan. 7:13,*14; 1*Cor. 15:23-25; Rev. 11:15; 12:10) The Bible’s description of Jesus shows that he was indeed “the lowliest one of mankind.” (Phil. 2:7,*8; Matt. 11:28-30) The prophetic dream, then, points to the time when Jehovah would give rulership over mankind to his own Son.

What was to happen in the meantime? Rulership over mankind, as represented by the tree and its rootstock, would have “the heart of a beast.” (Dan. 4:16) The history of mankind would be dominated by governments that displayed the characteristics of wild beasts. In modern times, the bear is commonly used to represent Russia; the eagle, the United States; the lion, Britain; the dragon, China. The Bible also uses wild beasts as symbols of world governments and of the entire global system of human rulership under the influence of Satan. (Dan. 7:2-8, 17,*23; 8:20-22; Rev. 13:1,*2) As Jesus showed in his prophecy pointing to the conclusion of the system of things, Jerusalem would be “trampled on by the nations, until the appointed times of the nations” were fulfilled. (Luke 21:24) “Jerusalem” represented the Kingdom of God because its kings were said to sit on “the throne of the kingship of Jehovah.” (1*Chron. 28:4,*5; Matt. 5:34,*35) So, the Gentile governments, represented by wild beasts, would ‘trample’ on the right of God’s Kingdom to direct human affairs and would themselves hold sway under Satan’s control.—Compare Luke 4:5,*6.

For how long would such governments be permitted to exercise this control before Jehovah gave the Kingdom to Jesus Christ? Daniel 4:16 says “seven times” (“seven years,” AT and Mo, also JB footnote on verse 13). The Bible shows that in calculating prophetic time, a day is counted as a year. (Ezek. 4:6; Num. 14:34) How many “days,” then, are involved? Revelation 11:2,*3*clearly states that 42 months (3*1/2 years) in that prophecy are counted as 1,260 days. Seven years would be twice that, or 2,520 days. Applying the “day for a year” rule would result in 2,520 years.

When did the counting of the “seven times” begin? After Zedekiah, the last king in the typical Kingdom of God, was removed from the throne in Jerusalem by the Babylonians. (Ezek. 21:25-27) Finally, by early October of 607*B.C.E. the last vestige of Jewish sovereignty was gone. By that time the Jewish governor, Gedaliah, who had been left in charge by the Babylonians, had been assassinated, and the remaining Jews had fled to Egypt. (Jeremiah, chapters 40-43) Reliable Bible chronology indicates that this took place 70 years before 537*B.C.E., the year in which the Jews returned from captivity; that is, it took place by early October of 607*B.C.E. (Jer. 29:10; Dan. 9:2)

How, then, is the time calculated down to 1914? Counting 2,520 years from early October of 607*B.C.E. brings us to early October of 1914*C.E., as shown on the chart.

CALCULATING THE “SEVEN TIMES”

“Seven times” = 7 X 360 = 2,520 years

A Biblical “time,” or year = 12 X 30 days = 360. (Rev. 11:2,*3; 12:6,*14)

In the fulfillment of the “seven times” each day equals one year. (Ezek. 4:6; Num. 14:34)

Early October, 607*B.C.E., to December 31,*607*B.C.E.= 1/4 year

January 1,*606*B.C.E., to December 31,*1*B.C.E. = 606 years

January 1,*1*C.E., to December 31,*1913 = 1,913 years

January 1,*1914, to early October, 1914 = 3/4 year

Total: 2,520 years

[Angel Shards]

The above only reminds me of Nostradamus' "prophecies". Many of which did NOT come true. You can interpret it whichever way you want to. I can easily look up a prophecy in Nostradamus' book and somehow apply it to what is going on in the world around us.

The above "signs" reveal nothing to me except human paranoia.

[Forever Atlas]

Originally Posted by Angel Shards

The above only reminds me of Nostradamus' "prophecies". Many of which did NOT come true. You can interpret it whichever way you want to. I can easily look up a prophecy in Nostradamus' book and somehow apply it to what is going on in the world around us.

The above "signs" reveal nothing to me except human paranoia.

as i have said before, even the scriptures said that many will not see, but anyway, u keep avoiding the other prophecies that i posted in the gods word or mans thread about the bible O.o

[Angel Shards]

So I guess only the blind see what is not in front of them :\ I don't see these "signs" because they're not there. Wars happen; natural disasters happen. They have for centuries. It doesn't mean it is the end of the world. It just shows true human nature and that the earth will keep doing what it does.

I'll go comment on other stuff if you really want me too...

[Forever Atlas]

anyway, its just like the Scribes and Pharasies in Jesus' day. They saw what Jesus did, right in front of him, but they kept denying him, til they put him to death.

But i feel sorry in a way.

A lot of people say it'll never happen, and thus are complacent, like it keep being said the end is near but no 1 sees it so they dont care.... they just go on in their daily lives only concerned about now or physical things.... complacency

1 Peter 3: 9 - 10 : Jehovah is not slow respecting his promise, as some people consider slowness, but he is patient with YOU because he does not desire any to be destroyed but desires all to attain to repentance. Yet Jehovah’s day will come as a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a hissing noise, but the elements being intensely hot will be dissolved, and earth and the works in it will be discovered

Luke 17 : 26 - 30: Moreover, just as it occurred in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of man: they were eating, they were drinking, men were marrying, women were being given in marriage, until that day when Noah entered into the ark, and the flood arrived and destroyed them all. Likewise, just as it occurred in the days of Lot: they were eating, they were drinking, they were buying, they were selling, they were planting, they were building. But on the day that Lot came out of Sod′om it rained fire and sulphur from heaven and destroyed them all. The same way it will be on that day when the Son of man is to be revealed.

Matthew 24: 36 - 39 - Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father. For just as the days of Noah were, so the presence of the Son of man will be. For as they were in those days before the flood, eating and drinking, men marrying and women being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark; and they took no note until the flood came and swept them all away, so the presence of the Son of man will be

[slinky]

i believe we are living in those days the bible says so if you read on in to revalations

[Angel Shards]

The Bible has been saying it's the end of days for the past 2,000 years. Christianity was baded on the belief that the apocapsye would happen tomorrow, so it didn't matter what race, sex, or social status you were: as long as you believed in God or whatevs you would be saved from the doom that would happen tomorrow. The same thing is still being preached. Hey, guess what? 2,000 years later still no end of the world.

[The Watchman]

I can't agree with you Shards about the bible comment. Revelation speaks of a mark of the beast when the antichrist comes, which is during the last days.

Rev 13:11-18

11 Then I saw another beast, coming out of the earth. He had two horns like a lamb, but he spoke like a dragon. 12 He exercised all the authority of the first beast on his behalf, and made the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, whose fatal wound had been healed. 13 And he performed great and miraculous signs, even causing fire to come down from heaven to earth in full view of men. 14 Because of the signs he was given power to do on behalf of the first beast, he deceived the inhabitants of the earth. He ordered them to set up an image in honor of the beast who was wounded by the sword and yet lived. 15 He was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that it could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed. 16 He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead, 17 so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name.

18 This calls for wisdom. If anyone has insight, let him calculate the number of the beast, for it is man's number. His number is 666 .
NIV

The last I checked, there have not been a global mark everyone had to take. So you saying that the bible has been saying this for 2000 years can't be correct.

Now for proof, has anyone noticed how much technology has advanced? We went from having telephones on cords to now having wireless headsets called Bluetooth. This has been a plan from the enemy all along. He is wanting us to become more and more used to convenience to where when it comes time for him to come and take the mark, people will come by the lots to get this mark to "make life easier and more convenient". No I did not quote the quotation, just to clarify.

[Angel Shards]

Originally Posted by The Watchman

Rev 13:11-18

11 Then I saw another beast, coming out of the earth. He had two horns like a lamb, but he spoke like a dragon. 12 He exercised all the authority of the first beast on his behalf, and made the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, whose fatal wound had been healed. 13 And he performed great and miraculous signs, even causing fire to come down from heaven to earth in full view of men. 14 Because of the signs he was given power to do on behalf of the first beast, he deceived the inhabitants of the earth. He ordered them to set up an image in honor of the beast who was wounded by the sword and yet lived. 15 He was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that it could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed. 16 He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead, 17 so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name.

I don't see anyone who has this mark. And you say we are coming down to the last days, no? Who has said mark upon them? Anyone? No? Didn't think so.

18 This calls for wisdom. If anyone has insight, let him calculate the number of the beast, for it is man's number. His number is 666 .

666 is NOT the numbe rof the beast. People confuse that number with Nero, the emporer or fiddled while Rome burned. It has to do with numerology, or something of the sort, but if you do the math (which I have no idea how to do..shall ponce off and research it) Nero's name = 666.

The last I checked, there have not been a global mark everyone had to take. So you saying that the bible has been saying this for 2000 years can't be correct.

Dude, the whole Jesus movement in the beginning was about the Kingdom Come: aka the end of the world, baby. I learned about this last night in my religion class. The only reason why Jesus accepted people (like women, lepers, cripples, etc) was because the end was coming, so it didn't matter what your background was: you were gunna die! And when Jesus died and appeared to his disciples, they were sure a second coming would come any moment, signaling the end, so they tried to spread the word etc etc etc.

Seriously, read the Bible again.

Now for proof, has anyone noticed how much technology has advanced? We went from having telephones on cords to now having wireless headsets called Bluetooth.

Ya, clearly the devil's work, you Amish.

This has been a plan from the enemy all along.

Dude, then wtf are you doing on the internet, or even a computer for that matter? You are using a tool of Satan!

He is wanting us to become more and more used to convenience to where when it comes time for him to come and take the mark, people will come by the lots to get this mark to "make life easier and more convenient". .

roffle.

[Forever Atlas]

Originally Posted by Angel Shards

The Bible has been saying it's the end of days for the past 2,000 years. Christianity was baded on the belief that the apocapsye would happen tomorrow, so it didn't matter what race, sex, or social status you were: as long as you believed in God or whatevs you would be saved from the doom that would happen tomorrow. The same thing is still being preached. Hey, guess what? 2,000 years later still no end of the world.

NO, like i said, anyway, my last post describes what u just said exactly.... the Bible said, in THE LAST DAYS these things will happen.

The first time the end was being preached in the days after Jesus, guess what? those times did end, as the Romans destroyed Jerusalem as Jesus fortold. Only those who listened to him and fled to the mountains survived.

Then there is the end of these days, as ive shown many proofs but because you dont want to believe and you dont want to accept the facts that i have placed before you, you wont see. And hey. no 1 is forcing you. We have a choice God gave us, to serve him or not.

Originally Posted by The Watchman

I can't agree with you Shards about the bible comment. Revelation speaks of a mark of the beast when the antichrist comes, which is during the last days.

Rev 13:11-18

11 Then I saw another beast, coming out of the earth. He had two horns like a lamb, but he spoke like a dragon. 12 He exercised all the authority of the first beast on his behalf, and made the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, whose fatal wound had been healed. 13 And he performed great and miraculous signs, even causing fire to come down from heaven to earth in full view of men. 14 Because of the signs he was given power to do on behalf of the first beast, he deceived the inhabitants of the earth. He ordered them to set up an image in honor of the beast who was wounded by the sword and yet lived. 15 He was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that it could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed. 16 He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead, 17 so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name.

18 This calls for wisdom. If anyone has insight, let him calculate the number of the beast, for it is man's number. His number is 666 .
NIV

The last I checked, there have not been a global mark everyone had to take. So you saying that the bible has been saying this for 2000 years can't be correct.

Now for proof, has anyone noticed how much technology has advanced? We went from having telephones on cords to now having wireless headsets called Bluetooth. This has been a plan from the enemy all along. He is wanting us to become more and more used to convenience to where when it comes time for him to come and take the mark, people will come by the lots to get this mark to "make life easier and more convenient". No I did not quote the quotation, just to clarify.

Identifying the Wild Beast and Its Mark

DO YOU enjoy solving a mystery? To do so, you look for clues that help you work your way toward the solution. In his inspired Word, God provides the needed clues with regard to the number 666, the name, or mark, of the wild beast of Revelation chapter 13.

In this article, we will look at four main lines of reasoning—vital clues—that will reveal the meaning of the mark of the beast. We will consider (1) how Bible names are sometimes chosen, (2) the identity of the wild beast, (3) what is meant by 666 being “a man’s number,” and (4) the significance of the number 6 and why it is written in triple digits, namely, 600 plus 60 plus 6, or 666.—Revelation 13:18.

Bible Names—More Than Just Labels

Bible names often have special significance, particularly when given by God. For example, because Abram would become the father of nations, God changed the patriarch’s name to Abraham, meaning “Father of a Multitude.” (Genesis 17:5, footnote) God told Joseph and Mary to call Mary’s future child Jesus, which means “Jehovah Is Salvation.” (Matthew 1:21, footnote; Luke 1:31) In harmony with that meaningful name, through Jesus’ ministry and sacrificial death, Jehovah made possible our salvation.—John 3:16.

Accordingly, the God-given number-name 666 must symbolize what God sees as defining attributes of the beast. Naturally, to understand those traits, we need to identify the beast itself and learn about its activities.

The Beast Exposed

The Bible book of Daniel sheds much light on the meaning of symbolic beasts. Chapter 7 contains a vivid tableau of “four huge beasts”—a lion, a bear, a leopard, and a fearsome beast with big teeth of iron. (Daniel 7:2-7) Daniel tells us that these beasts represent “kings,” or political kingdoms, that rule in succession over vast empires.—Daniel 7:17, 23.

Regarding the beast of Revelation 13:1, 2, The Interpreter’s Dictionary of the Bible points out that it “combines in itself the joint characteristics of the four beasts of Daniel’s vision . . . Accordingly, this first beast [of Revelation] represents the combined forces of all political rule opposed to God in the world.” This observation is affirmed by Revelation 13:7, which says of the beast: “Authority was given it over every tribe and people and tongue and nation.”

Why does the Bible use beasts as symbols of human rulership? For at least two reasons. First, because of the beastly record of bloodshed that governments have accrued over the centuries. “War is one of the constants of history,” wrote historians Will and Ariel Durant, “and has not diminished with civilization or democracy.” How true that “man has dominated man to his injury”! (Ecclesiastes 8:9) The second reason is that “the dragon [Satan] gave to the beast its power and its throne and great authority.” (Revelation 12:9; 13:2) Accordingly, human rulership is a product of the Devil, thus reflecting his beastly, dragonlike disposition.—John 8:44; Ephesians 6:12.

This does not mean, however, that every human ruler is a direct tool of Satan. Indeed, in one sense, human governments serve as “God’s minister,” giving structure to human society, without which chaos would rule. And some leaders have protected fundamental human rights, including the right to engage in true worship—something that Satan does not want. (Romans 13:3, 4; Ezra 7:11-27; Acts 13:7) Still, because of the Devil’s influence, no human or human institution has ever been able to bring lasting peace and security to the people.—John 12:31.

“A Human Number”

A third clue to the meaning of 666 lies in its being “a man’s number,” or as The Amplified Bible puts it, “a human number.” This expression could not refer to an individual human, for Satan—not any man—has authority over the beast. (Luke 4:5, 6; 1 John 5:19; Revelation 13:2, 18) Rather, the beast’s having “a human number,” or mark, suggests that it is a human entity, not spirit or demon, and that it therefore manifests certain human traits. What might they be? The Bible answers, saying: “All [humans] have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.” (Romans 3:23) The beast’s having “a human number,” therefore, indicates that governments reflect the fallen human condition, the mark of sin and imperfection.

History bears this out. “Every civilization that has ever existed has ultimately collapsed,” said former U.S. Secretary of State Henry Kissinger. “History is a tale of efforts that failed, of aspirations that weren’t realized . . . So, as a historian, one has to live with a sense of the inevitability of tragedy.” Kissinger’s honest appraisal testifies to this fundamental Bible truth: “To earthling man his way does not belong. It does not belong to man who is walking even to direct his step.”—Jeremiah 10:23.

Now that we have identified the beast and discerned how God views it, we are in a position to examine the final part of our puzzle—the number six and why it is written in triple digits—that is, 666, or 600 plus 60 plus 6.

Six Repeated Three Times—Why?

In the Scriptures, certain numbers have symbolic significance. The number seven, for example, is often used to symbolize that which is complete, or perfect, in God’s eyes. For instance, God’s creative week comprises seven ‘days,’ or extended time periods, during which God completely accomplishes his creative purpose regarding the earth. (Genesis 1:3–2:3) God’s “sayings” are like silver that has been “clarified seven times,” thus perfectly refined. (Psalm 12:6; Proverbs 30:5, 6) The leper Naaman was told to bathe seven times in the Jordan River, after which he was completely healed.—2 Kings 5:10, 14.

Six is one short of seven. Would it not be a fitting symbol of something imperfect, or defective, in God’s eyes? Yes, indeed! (1 Chronicles 20:6, 7) Moreover, six repeated three times, as 666, powerfully stresses that imperfection. That this is the correct view is supported by the fact that 666 is “a human number,” as we have considered. Thus, the beast’s record, its “human number,” and the number 666 itself all point to one unmistakable conclusion—gross shortcoming and failure in the eyes of Jehovah.

The portrayal of the beast’s deficiencies calls to mind what was said about King Belshazzar of ancient Babylon. Through Daniel, Jehovah said to that ruler: “You have been weighed in the balances and have been found deficient.” That very night Belshazzar was killed, and the mighty Babylonian Empire fell. (Daniel 5:27, 30) Likewise, God’s judgment of the political beast and of those with its mark spells the end of that entity and its supporters. In this instance, however, God will eradicate not just one political system but every vestige of human rule. (Daniel 2:44; Revelation 19:19, 20) How important, therefore, that we avoid having the deadly mark of the beast!

The Mark Identified

Immediately after disclosing the number 666, Revelation mentions 144,000 followers of the Lamb, Jesus Christ, who have his name and the name of his Father, Jehovah, written on their foreheads. These names identify the bearers as belonging to Jehovah and to his Son, about whom they proudly bear witness. Likewise, those having the mark of the beast proclaim their servitude to the beast. Thus, the mark, whether on the right hand or on the forehead, figuratively speaking, is a symbol that identifies its bearer as one who gives worshipful support to the beastlike political systems of the world. Those having the mark give to “Caesar” that which rightly belongs to God. (Luke 20:25; Revelation 13:4, 8; 14:1) How? By giving worshipful honor to the political state, its symbols, and its military might, to which they look for hope and salvation. Any worship that they render the true God is merely lip service.

In contrast, the Bible urges us: “Do not put your trust in nobles, nor in the son of earthling man, to whom no salvation belongs. His spirit goes out, he goes back to his ground; in that day his thoughts do perish.” (Psalm 146:3, 4) Those who heed that wise counsel are not disillusioned when governments fail to deliver on their promises or when charismatic leaders fall from grace.—Proverbs 1:33.

This does not mean that true Christians sit back and do nothing about mankind’s plight. On the contrary, they actively proclaim the one government that will solve mankind’s problems—God’s Kingdom, which they represent.—Matthew 24:14.

God’s Kingdom—Mankind’s Only Hope

When on earth, Jesus made God’s Kingdom the main theme of his preaching. (Luke 4:43) In his model prayer, sometimes called the Lord’s Prayer, Jesus taught his followers to pray for that Kingdom to come and for God’s will to be done here on earth. (Matthew 6:9, 10) The Kingdom is a government that will rule over the entire earth, not from some earthly capital, but from heaven. Hence, Jesus called it “the kingdom of the heavens.”—Matthew 11:12.

Who is better suited to be King of that Kingdom than Jesus Christ, the one who died for his future subjects? (Isaiah 9:6, 7; John 3:16) Soon this perfect Ruler, now a mighty spirit person, will hurl the beast, its kings, and its armies into “the fiery lake that burns with sulphur,” a symbol of complete destruction. But that is not all. Jesus will also get rid of Satan, something that no human could ever do.—Revelation 11:15; 19:16, 19-21; 20:2, 10.

God’s Kingdom will bring peace to all its obedient subjects. (Psalm 37:11, 29; 46:8, 9) Even sorrow, pain, and death will be no more. What a glorious prospect for those who remain free of the mark of the beast!—Revelation 21:3, 4.


For an in-depth discussion of these verses, see chapter 28 of the book Revelation—Its Grand Climax At Hand!

While recognizing that human rulership is often beastlike, true Christians subject themselves to the governmental “superior authorities,” as the Bible directs. (Romans 13:1) When such authorities command them to act contrary to God’s law, however, they “obey God as ruler rather than men.”—Acts 5:29.


Clues to the Meaning of 666

1. Bible names often say something about the bearer’s traits or life, as in the case of Abraham, Jesus, and many others. Likewise, the beast’s number-name encodes its characteristics.

2. In the Bible book of Daniel, the various beasts represent successive human kingdoms, or empires. The composite beast of Revelation 13:1, 2 symbolizes the worldwide political system, empowered and controlled by Satan.

3. The beast’s having “a man’s number,” or “a human number,” indicates that it is a human entity, not a demon. Hence, it reflects human failings resulting from sin and imperfection.

4. In God’s eyes, the number six, being short of the Biblically complete, or perfect, seven, points to imperfection. The mark 666 emphasizes that deficiency by repeating the number three

[Hollow Bastion]

So, uh, mistranslation where 666 is actually supposed to be 616. In either case, AS has a point regarding Nero.

From wiki (I'll link to the source in a bit..gotta leave soon):
"The difference in numbers has also been explained by the fact that the Greek and Latin spellings of Nero’s name transliterate differently into Hebrew (the language used to create the coded numerology). The Greek spelling, “Neron Caesar,” transliterates into Hebrew as “nrwn qsr,” which equates numerically to 666 in Hebrew gematria. By contrast, the Latin title for Nero is spelled simply “Nero Caesar,” which transliterates to “nrw qsr” and has a value of 616."

Earliest known bit of parchment for that section in Revelation has 616 as the number.