The Bible - Gods Book or Mans?

[IDX Rider]

The Bible has lost its true meaning through the many mistranslations over time that now is considered by many (including myself) as man's work. I don't believe in God or Gods, but the majority that do still consider is man's now. Personally, I think the whole thing is rubbish anyways.

[Sephiros_TH]

Originally Posted by Einon SAMA

You aren't told to have one opinion, but if you follow the bible and claim to be Christian, it would be hypocritical of you to have multiple opinions.



Why wont you leave your arrogant opinions that you claim to be fact out of this? Its annoying.

The question of this thread is weather or not the bible is god's word right? well I gave my opinion and the evidence supporting it. Thats how you argue a point, this is the intelligent discussions forum isn't it? If you can't take someones opinion in a place where opinions are meant to be debated then please refrain from going there as you might be appalled or displeased with the things you see.

[Einon SAMA]

Because the Bible was written by man, compiled by man, and created far after the one it is meant to revere, in fact by his enemies, it cannot be gods word. If it was gods word it would come from god out of thin air or some other miracle. The bible is a manifesto of man's own need for something to turn to when there is no answer.

The question of this thread is weather or not the bible is god's word right? well I gave my opinion and the evidence supporting it. Thats how you argue a point, this is the intelligent discussions forum isn't it? If you can't take someones opinion in a place where opinions are meant to be debated then please refrain from going there as you might be appalled or displeased with the things you see.

The above quote was an arrogant opinion that assumed the Bible to be not the word of God. It is neither fact nor was there any proof. If its is your opinon that it isn't the word of God, that is fine by me. Just do not present it as fact. That just really annoys me.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by Einon SAMA

The above quote was an arrogant opinion that assumed the Bible to be not the word of God. It is neither fact nor was there any proof. If its is your opinon that it isn't the word of God, that is fine by me. Just do not present it as fact. That just really annoys me.

FACT: The bible is not the word of god.
FACT: The bible is not the word of god.
FACT: The bible is not the word of god.
FACT: The bible is not the word of god.
FACT: The bible is not the word of god.

[Einon SAMA]

Originally Posted by Son of Sam

FACT: The bible is not the word of god.
FACT: The bible is not the word of god.
FACT: The bible is not the word of god.
FACT: The bible is not the word of god.
FACT: The bible is not the word of god.

FACT: You're being an idiot.

OPINION: You are an idiot.

[IDX Rider]

I wouldn't call it a true fact, but God didn't really word it that exact way. And like said before, mistranslations of the Bible also lead to misinterpretations as well.

[Einon SAMA]

Originally Posted by IDX Rider

I wouldn't call it a true fact, but God didn't really word it that exact way. And like said before, mistranslations of the Bible also lead to misinterpretations as well.

Note: When called the word of God, it is that it is God's thougts. Inspired of God.

While it is possible that there COULD have been misinterpretations of the original meaning, it doesn't mean there HAS been.

[IDX Rider]

There has been. That's fact. But to what degree, I don't know. And from what I've read myself, it's all basically stories of people. That's not really the word of God, but just mere observation. The only parts that I know of (because I haven't read the entire book) that might be considered as God's Word would be Genesis and The Book of Revelations. Mainly because no one could know how everything came to be and it's stated that John (or whoever) was told by an angel or God (can't remember) how the world will end. Everything in between I don't consider as the word of God for the reasons I stated in the beginning.

[.:EngetsuDrake:.]

The bible is one huge novel collection, written by man and worshiped by man. Nothing more.

I just don´t get how it people can call it an holy book when they haven´t read it. And another fun question someone should answer. Christianity have an nameless god, but why do we spell it with an capital G it he is nameless?

[Forever Atlas]

Im not going to dispute this... THE BIBLE HAS BEEN CHANGED BY MAN FOR HIS OWN THOUGHTS... that is VERY true. And because of this there are many many translations of the Hebrew and especially the Christian Greek Scriptures.

The one I use is The New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures mainly. (this version of the Bible sticks to the original hebrew and greek and arabic writings as cloesly as possible) However i do use many other translations for research and more.

Also I am not disputing the fact that the Bible was hand written by men. Yes it was. It is composed of several books penned by 40 different writters. over a period of 16 centuries. (which makes the unitity and authenticity more amazing if you really look into it)

But now looking at the main thought that i have... 2 Timothy 3: 16, 17 says: "All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work."

In other words the Bible was Gods thoughts conveyed through man. Now the idea of God is that he is all knowing all powerful. His thoughts far excel ours.... he and his angelic creatures. Lets say they penned it. They are perfect. God used man as an act of kindness if you think about it. This way, we could relate to the writers and the scriptures are put in ways that are more understandable to us.

now before you write me off as saying "but thats still in the Bible" sure. But let me give one example of why I personally believe it is authentic. 1 of the many prophecies in the Bible. Now this is a prophecy that can be proved along with secular history.

This would be the Prophecy of the destruction of the city of Babylon.

Prophecy: Isa. 44:24, 27, 28; 45:1-4: “Jehovah . . . the One saying to the watery deep, ‘Be evaporated; and all your rivers I shall dry up’; the One saying of Cyrus, ‘He is my shepherd, and all that I delight in he will completely carry out’; even in my saying of Jerusalem, ‘She will be rebuilt,’ and of the temple, ‘You will have your foundation laid.’ This is what Jehovah has said to his anointed one, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have taken hold of, to subdue before him nations, so that I may ungird even the hips of kings; to open before him the two-leaved doors, so that even the gates will not be shut: ‘Before you I myself shall go, and the swells of land I shall straighten out. The copper doors I shall break in pieces, and the iron bars I shall cut down. . . . For the sake of my servant Jacob and of Israel my chosen one, I even proceeded to call you by your name.’” (Writing by Isaiah was completed by about 732 B.C.E.)

□ Fulfillment: Cyrus had not been born when the prophecy was written. The Jews were not taken into exile to Babylon until 617-607 B.C.E., and Jerusalem and its temple were not destroyed until 607 B.C.E. In detail the prophecy was fulfilled starting in 539 B.C.E. Cyrus diverted the waters of the Euphrates River into an artificial lake, the river gates of Babylon were carelessly left open during feasting in the city, and Babylon fell to the Medes and Persians under Cyrus. Thereafter, Cyrus liberated the Jewish exiles and sent them back to Jerusalem with instructions to rebuild Jehovah’s temple there.—The Encyclopedia Americana (1956), Vol. III, p. 9; Light From the Ancient Past (Princeton, 1959), Jack Finegan, pp. 227-229; “All Scripture Is Inspired of God and Beneficial” (New York, 1983), pp. 282, 284, 295.

Originally Posted by .:EngetsuDrake:.

The bible is one huge novel collection, written by man and worshiped by man. Nothing more.

I just don´t get how it people can call it an holy book when they haven´t read it. And another fun question someone should answer. Christianity have an nameless god, but why do we spell it with an capital G it he is nameless?

I've read it and millions of others have, hence the reason we believe... not just reading studying. Also Christianity (true Christianity) knows that God does have a name... "God" is just a title you are right. But the Bible uses Gods true name thousands and thousands of times over..... you say we havent read the Bible.... but you missed out that fact... so i must ask you... have you read it?

[Hollow Bastion]

Originally Posted by Einon SAMA

Note: When called the word of God, it is that it is God's thougts. Inspired of God.

While it is possible that there COULD have been misinterpretations of the original meaning, it doesn't mean there HAS been.

You can never reach the original text. There's always gonna be interpretations.

[IDX Rider]

Some say God's true name is Yahweh, and others say it's Jehovah (I'm sure you know which ones say this). I don't care either way what his name is, but he represents the same thing and I think that's more important than a silly name.

[Forever Atlas]

Originally Posted by IDX Rider

Some say God's true name is Yahweh, and others say it's Jehovah (I'm sure you know which ones say this). I don't care either way what his name is, but he represents the same thing and I think that's more important than a silly name.

lol i think you are in the wrong forum haha but u can actually go to the forum for that one :-p and put your input: http://forums.khinsider.com/religiou...gods-name.html



Some more Bible Prophecies.... and their fulfilments:

▪ Prophecy: Jer. 49:17,*18: “‘Edom must become an object of astonishment. Everyone passing along by her will stare in astonishment and whistle on account of all her plagues. Just as in the overthrow of Sodom and Gomorrah and her neighbor towns,’ Jehovah has said, ‘no man will dwell there.’” (Jeremiah’s recording of prophecies was completed by 580*B.C.E.)

□ Fulfillment: “They [the Edomites] were driven from Palestine in the 2nd century B.C. by Judas Maccabæus, and in 109 B.C. John Hyrcanus, Maccabæan leader, extended the kingdom of Judah to include the w. part of Edomitic lands. In the 1st century B.C. Roman expansion swept away the last vestige of Edomitic independence .*.*. After the destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans in 70*A.D. .*.*. the name Idumæa [Edom] disappeared from history.” (The New Funk & Wagnalls Encyclopedia, 1952, Vol. 11, p. 4114) Notice that the fulfillment extends down to our day. In no way can it be argued that this prophecy was written after the events had taken place.

▪ Prophecy: Luke 19:41-44; 21:20,*21: “He [Jesus Christ] viewed the city [Jerusalem] and wept over it, saying: .*.*. ‘The days will come upon you when your enemies will build around you a fortification with pointed stakes and will encircle you and distress you from every side, and they will dash you and your children within you to the ground, and they will not leave a stone upon a stone in you, because you did not discern the time of your being inspected.’” Two days later, he counseled his disciples: “When you see Jerusalem surrounded by encamped armies, then know that the desolating of her has drawn near. Then let those in Judea begin fleeing to the mountains, and let those in the midst of her withdraw.” (Prophecy spoken by Jesus Christ in 33*C.E.)

□ Fulfillment: Jerusalem revolted against Rome, and in 66*C.E. the Roman army under Cestius Gallus attacked the city. But, as Jewish historian Josephus reports, the Roman commander “suddenly called off his men, abandoned hope though he had suffered no reverse, and flying in the face of all reason retired from the City.” (Josephus, the Jewish War, Penguin Classics, 1969, p. 167) This provided opportunity for Christians to flee from the city, which they did, moving to Pella, beyond the Jordan, according to Eusebius Pamphilus in his Ecclesiastical History. (Translated by C. F. Crusé, London, 1894, p. 75) Then around Passover time of the year 70*C.E. General Titus besieged the city, an encircling fence 4.5 miles (7.2 km) long was erected in just three days, and after five months Jerusalem fell. “Jerusalem itself was systematically destroyed and the Temple left in ruins. Archaeological work shows us today just how effective was the destruction of Jewish buildings all over the land.”—The Bible and Archaeology (Grand Rapids, Mich.; 1962), J. A. Thompson, p. 299.

[IDX Rider]

Perhaps I should've quoted what you said, saying that only true Christianity knows God's real name then?

And also, I'm not into prophecies really. To me? Mere coincidence and/or lucky guesses .

[Forever Atlas]

How can we be sure the Bible has not been changed?

“In the number of ancient MSS. [manuscripts] attesting a writing, and in the number of years that had elapsed between the original and the attesting MSS., the Bible enjoys a decided advantage over classical writings [those of Homer, Plato, and others]. . . . Altogether classical MSS. are but a handful compared with Biblical. No ancient book is so well attested as the Bible.”—The Bible From the Beginning (New York, 1929), P. Marion Simms, pp. 74, 76.

(for emphasis)

A report published in 1971 shows that there are possibly 6,000 handwritten copies containing all or part of the Hebrew Scriptures; the oldest dates back to the third century B.C.E. Of the Christian Greek Scriptures, there are some 5,000 in Greek, the oldest dating back to the beginning of the second century C.E. There are also many copies of early translations into other languages.

In the introduction to his seven volumes on The Chester Beatty Biblical Papyri, Sir Frederic Kenyon wrote: “The first and most important conclusion derived from the examination of them [the papyri] is the satisfactory one that they confirm the essential soundness of the existing texts. No striking or fundamental variation is shown either in the Old or the New Testament. There are no important omissions or additions of passages, and no variations which affect vital facts or doctrines. The variations of text affect minor matters, such as the order of words or the precise words used . . . But their essential importance is their confirmation, by evidence of an earlier date than was hitherto available, of the integrity of our existing texts.”—(London, 1933), p. 15.

It is true that some translations of the Bible adhere more closely to what is in the original languages than others do. Modern paraphrase Bibles have taken liberties that at times alter the original meaning. Some translators have allowed personal beliefs to color their renderings. But these weaknesses can be identified by comparison of a variety of translations.

Originally Posted by IDX Rider

Perhaps I should've quoted what you said, saying that only true Christianity knows God's real name then?

please do cause i'll slap myself for saying that if i did say that

ah, n/m i see what I wrote, and i think its a simple misunderstanding on your part. What i meant was that one can not be a true christian if they do not know that God has a name, for thats one of the Bible's commands, to sanctify his name and glorify it.

Now i didnt say they didnt know his name, what it is... i said those who knew he had a name....

Originally Posted by IDX Rider

And also, I'm not into prophecies really. To me? Mere coincidence and/or lucky guesses ;-).

Well, no one can force anyone to accept facts... but lol that'd be a lot of mere coincidences... pretty dang accurate coincidences too. Did you know that the United Nations and many many other things today were prophecied about in the Bible?