Wicca?

[Jopari]

Originally Posted by Dogenzaka

Yet I, along with other Christians, do believe that God speaks to us in many ways.
Prayer is mostly however, for God to listen to us.
God speaks back to us, however, through many different ways, most obvious source being his Word.

Most often the Word of God is the Bible if I'm correct. Of course, if I'm wrong that would explain a few things about my conversations with my Christian friends. However, on the topic of the Bible and it talking to you, does the Bible add to itself when you need advice? Or do you tailor the interpretation of a verse or chapter or book to fit the need?

And on another slightly off topic idea, this reminds me of a quote from someone. "If you talk to God you're called religious. If he talks back you're called crazy."

Now onto the topic or at least what I think the topic was.

Prayer can be asking for assistance from God. This can be related to the asking for magical assistance from a deity. It can also be just talking. However, someone made a point about it being different because of a lack of a ritual. However, Christianity and its offshoots have rituals that cement their faith. Communion and other such rituals act as a way to solidify the existence of God in their lives the same way the pagan rituals do in pagan religions.

Prayer is most often conceived as asking God for a favor, and magic is most often viewed as using powers or a deity/entity to get something done. As such, prayer and magic can be lumped together under that common association.

[Gav]

Originally Posted by Jopari

"If you talk to God you're called religious. If he talks back you're called crazy."

I lol'd.

Originally Posted by Jopari

Prayer is most often conceived as asking God for a favor

That, or forgiveness.

Originally Posted by Jopari

magic is most often viewed as using powers or a deity/entity to get something done. As such, prayer and magic can be lumped together under that common association.

Why? I always thought God doesn't try to get involved to teach you a lesson, and that he shows you in the ways you least expect it? Not some powerful force of magic coming from the sky?

[Jopari]

Originally Posted by gungonX

Why? I always thought God doesn't try to get involved to teach you a lsseon, and that he shows you in the ways you least expect it? Not some powerful force of magic coming from the sky?

Did I ever say that God acted directly, or that magic acted directly? Even better, did I ever say that either existed?

As to why, because if you'd actually quoted the entire sentence you would have seen that they are lumped together not because of the force involved, but the act of asking a force to do something.

[Gav]

Did I ever say that God acted directly, or that magic acted directly? Even better, did I ever say that either existed?

No you didn't, but your the one telling us what prayer is?

As to why, because if you'd actually quoted the entire sentence you would have seen that they are lumped together not because of the force involved, but the act of asking a force to do something.

I know what you wrote, I only need to quote what's relevant to my question.

Your stating how prayer and magic are linked, prayer is the communication to God and to confess, or to question. Yet you say to ask for magic from a deity, asking as in to be granted power. How is that similar to prayer?

I don't mean to get you agrivated, I'm just trying to make sense of your statement, so bare with me.

[Hollow Bastion]

Originally Posted by gungonX

Your stating how prayer and magic are linked, prayer is the communication to God and to confess, or to question. Yet you say to ask for magic from a deity, asking as in to be granted power. How is that similar to prayer?

Then I imagine that the vast majority of people I know who have prayed have been doing it wrong, as they usually ask for God to do something.

[Gav]

Originally Posted by Hollow Bastion

Then I imagine that the vast majority of people I know who have prayed have been doing it wrong, as they usually ask for God to do something.

Sorry HB, I mean as in;

How are asking a Deity for magic and asking God for advice/for help the same?

Surely, asking God for magic, is just stupid now?

[Tobuoi]

Originally Posted by Chosen Again

Well. . . .from a Christian standpoint it is evil. Not because of pentagrams or anythings else but merely because the Bible says not to follow the teachings of "wizards" and soforth.

And yes. I am of the opinion that it is both creepy and crazy.

Have you READ the Bible? I mean, at all? Cos I've only read bits of it, here and there, and I find it no less alarming and insane than Egyptian mythology, Wicca, or even Scientology. Catholicism/Christianity is just an older religion, and is therefore more accepted as people have become desensitized to it. In my opinion, of course.

And unless your God is against curiousity--oh, wait--I forgot about Adam and Eve. Better stay away from it, then. But at the same time, God loves you and wants you to have free will. Interesting...

You see, unlike Wicca, I find Christianity (or God, for that matter) to not only be creepy and crazy, but deceptive and spiteful. That's just me.

EDIT: Sorry, this post has more to do with issues discussed at the beginning of the topic...don't mean to disrupt anything.

[Hoenheim]

"If you talk to God you're called religious. If he talks back you're called crazy."

I've been called crazy for a lot of reasons, but that's not one of them.

[Jopari]

Originally Posted by gungonX

No you didn't, but your the one telling us what prayer is?

I didn't decide what prayer is. I took the examples of prayer already given in this thread before I posted.

Originally Posted by gungonX

I know what you wrote, I only need to quote what's relevant to my question.

Your stating how prayer and magic are linked, prayer is the communication to God and to confess, or to question. Yet you say to ask for magic from a deity, asking as in to be granted power. How is that similar to prayer?

Prayer is used for many things, communication with God for the most part though. However, if you look at the popular idea of prayer it is asking for things from God. In a general sense any perceived advantage is power, and since magic is a perceived advantage asking for it in a ritual, or possibly a prayer, which is a form of ritual, is similar to asking God for a favor.

Originally Posted by gungonX

I don't mean to get you agrivated, I'm just trying to make sense of your statement, so bare with me.

Sorry if I came off as aggravated. Tired might be a better word for it.

Originally Posted by gungonX

How are asking a Deity for magic and asking God for advice/for help the same?

Surely, asking God for magic, is just stupid now?

We're assuming that everyone asks for a tangible form of magic. Couldn't they, for instance, ask for advice from a deity? Couldn't the help they ask for come in the form of magic of some sort.

Asking God to help you in a math test tomorrow can be the same as asking a deity of some elemental power help you in a math test. The magic/help you receive may not be tangibly magic, but it could have been influenced by God/the deity.

Originally Posted by The Froad

I've been called crazy for a lot of reasons, but that's not one of them.

Let me be the first to do so. Does God talk to you, Froad?

[Gav]

Originally Posted by Jopari

Prayer is used for many things, communication with God for the most part though. However, if you look at the popular idea of prayer it is asking for things from God. In a general sense any perceived advantage is power, and since magic is a perceived advantage asking for it in a ritual, or possibly a prayer, which is a form of ritual, is similar to asking God for a favor.

But that is, if it actually happens. Perception of the mind can be a terrible thing.

Originally Posted by Jopari

We're assuming that everyone asks for a tangible form of magic. Couldn't they, for instance, ask for advice from a deity? Couldn't the help they ask for come in the form of magic of some sort.

Asking God to help you in a math test tomorrow can be the same as asking a deity of some elemental power help you in a math test. The magic/help you receive may not be tangibly magic, but it could have been influenced by God/the deity.

Touche, I see what you mean, sorry for the misunderstanding.

[bamak93]

this stuff interests me as well...but only the healing bits, really.

[Phoenix]

Yet I, along with other Christians, do believe that God speaks to us in many ways.
Prayer is mostly however, for God to listen to us.
God speaks back to us, however, through many different ways, most obvious source being his Word.

Then that's not a conversation; that's a monologue.

[Axel Owns]

dude, reading something won't affect your religion.

believing in it will.

[Ultima Legion]

Yeah.... but i felt i needed to add something.
When a priest is consecrating the bread and wine , is he not asking God to transform it into the body and blood of jesus? Thats just the same of invoking The Mother Goddess of the Night or The Horned God of Day into our spells to act upon our lives or do a specific thing....

Technically even Catholics use magic without knowing it.

[Hoenheim]

No, that's not what the preist is doing at all. Nothing is intended to happen as a result of Communion. It's just showing appreciation.