Comics vs. Manga?

[Johnny Stooge]

This is going here because it's a mixture of two sub-boards. But this is to be a proper discussion, not a "versus" like the name implies.

THIS IS NOT A SIMPLE "MANGA IS BETTER" THREAD AND ANY POST LIKE THAT WILL BE DELETED.
And I may even be tempted to give you a ban.

Okay, so as everyone here knows I have a hard-on the superhero genre. It's childish and fantastical but I like it so fuck you. And as you would as realise, the only way to get a decent level of exposure to the superhero (and to be of quality) is to a read a comic book.
And I know other people love the superhero as well, but they'll just stick with the movies or the cartoons so as a comic book reader I feel like I'm part of a minority.
Especially compared to the flipside of the coin which is anime and manga.

It's a hardly a hyperbolic statement to say that over 90% of you love your Jap comics and cartoons.
And compared to fanbases as a whole, I feel that the comic fanbases is overwhelmed by the manga fanbase. Definitely when I go to conventions which are meant to be "pop-culture" cons but over 50% of it ends up dedicated to manga and anime.

And over the past decade there has been a difinite boom in the amount of manga and anime making it into Western regions.
This isn't a lie. There is a fuckton of the stuff.

But then, the other day I came across some figures that were interesting.




This is a pie graph of the popular publishers distributed by Diamond. If you don't know what Diamond is, it's the company that takes the order information and ships all the products out to the retailers. When it comes to getting these products, there is no other way but through Diamond, so they have the proper sales figures.

And that graph above me is showing the market share among these top 10 publishers in February per units moved. That's a "who sold more items".

This here is a graph of who took in the most profits:




If you're wondering what the differance is, it's that you could move very few items off shelves, but if they're expensive you will still take in money. Or vice-versa, you could sell a ton of items, but if they're cheap you won't bring in much money. So both graphs are needed for a better picture.

And as you can clearly see, Marvel and DC are still the "Big Two" and clear forerunners ahead of the other publishers. But Viz Media, as far as I know is the biggest publisher of manga, and is but a mere speck in the larger picture on that graph.


Another point I have to bring up is the "economic shitstorm". Many publishers have been affected by this crisis and have had to find ways to pull through. Marvel and DC have increased product prices (with DC increasing page count by a few as well) and seeking alternative printing methods. Some companies have had to reduce their stock and library and the amount of product they ship.


But what's my point you may be asking?
How come Viz Media is smaller than Dark Horse and not even on competitive terms with DC or Marvel? They have the product base. And you and I both know that the fanbase is there, and is larger than that of comics.


What's going on, guys?

[Flower]

Maybe because of the fact that everyone reads their manga at the store/library rather than buying them, like everyone does with comics. That and unlike other manga publishers, a lot of Viz Media manga is availible online for free to read, so what would be the point of buying them when it's online for free?

[Johnny Stooge]

Originally Posted by rpgangel

Maybe because of the fact that everyone reads their manga at the store/library rather than buying them

I've have to say it: that's dirt.
To sit in the isle of a bookstore and read a book is disgusting.

like everyone does with comics.

Did you not see those figures I posted? I think they prove you wrong.
Not to mention, do you know how much it's frowned upon to read a book in a comic store? You just don't do that.

That and unlike other manga publishers, a lot of Viz Media manga is availible online for free to read, so what would be the point of buying them when it's online for free?

You like manga, right? You want to read more and more of it, right?
What you're doing is unhealthy.

[Flower]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stooge

I've have to say it: that's dirt.
To sit in the isle of a bookstore and read a book is disgusting.


Did you not see those figures I posted? I think they prove you wrong.
Not to mention, do you know how much it's frowned upon to read a book in a comic store? You just don't do that.


You like manga, right? You want to read more and more of it, right?
What you're doing is unhealthy.

The 'like everyone does with comics' was meant in a different way; more people buy them rather than read them, I was comparing them.

Of course it's unhealthy; that doesn't stop anyone, though. I do buy my manga...

[Nevermore]

Simply put? The perceived Marvel/DC demand could just be larger than you anticipated.

Now, going deeper into it. It could be similar to the first graph like what you see with many game or console statistics. They mention how much they "ship" and not how much they "sell". It could be a similar thing with Daimond. They ship out more Marvel/DC comics to stores than they do Manga. Also, and I could be wrong, but there could possibly be more specialty stores for comics in America than Manga. Therefore they take in more from Daimond in the way of Marvel/DC.

This carries over to the second graph. There may simply be more American stores that are specific to more American comic books. While the Manga fanbase is expanding in America by a large amount, that doesn't mean that there are a lot more stores being devoted to it. Major retail outlets have them, but not necessarily other comic-specific stores.

That'd be my guess, anyway.

[Neo]

I think it has to do with the fact that Manga is from Japan. By that I mean, it usually is released in Japan first and some people import it and translate it for people to read online. Its a lot easier to read Manga online for free than comics.

As far as I know the only comics that you can read online are in the digital comics in Marvel.com in which you obviously have to pay for subscription. Buying them and reading them in your bed, couch, etc., is a lot more better than staring at a screen and more preferable imo. There's also the fact that Manga tends to be for an older audience at times, even though Batman, Superman, X-Men, etc., are also tend to have mature morals in the story, they are more known by the public.

[Patrine]

Originally Posted by Neo

I think it has to do with the fact that Manga is from Japan. By that I mean, it usually is released in Japan first and some people import it and translate it for people to read online. Its a lot easier to read Manga online for free than comics.

As far as I know the only comics that you can read online are in the digital comics in Marvel.com in which you obviously have to pay for subscription. Buying them and reading them in your bed, couch, etc., is a lot more better than staring at a screen and more preferable imo. There's also the fact that Manga tends to be for an older audience at times, even though Batman, Superman, X-Men, etc., are also tend to have mature morals in the story, they are more known by the public.

I dont think so.

My opinion is that the manga reader are younger then comic readers. You see, the comics superheroes have lots and lots of special sagas, arch enemies, and a very deep personality. Since mage have a very feel deep and mature stories.

Well, it's how I think.

[Shinra X-2]

The world of Manga and comics are to be fused! The legendary Stan Lee is working with the Creator of Shaman King To create a comic/manga cross called Ultimo!

[Massive Attack]

I read manga online most of the time. Only because the artwork usually has no originality. But I never read comics online, as the artwork for the comics I read are usually very stylish and original; and usually I read things over again just to look at the artwork. It's not just down to artwork either; manga never seems to grip me as much as comics do, so I just read them as light entertainment.

[Vice]

Originally Posted by Oblivion fenrir

The world of Manga and comics are to be fused! The legendary Stan Lee is working with the Creator of Shaman King To create a comic/manga cross called Ultimo!

Which made me laugh and say "What the fuck is this" when i seen Stan Lee's face on the Cover of a "Free Comic Book Day" Version of Shonen Jump.

The Pie Graphs dont lie, Iv worked at a comic shop for roughly 3 years and i did the monthly orders. We never ordered Manga because the demand was so low and all the Anime fans refuse to buy there favorite stories but rather just read it online or visit larger stores such as Boarders or Barns and Nobel's and read for free (which is sad). As Stooge said, its not very often you see people go into a comic shop and Read an entire book, they just flip though it and look at the art to get the gist of it then they buy. Its Frowned upon to those that stand in the isles and read an entire book.


The problem here is that Manga Chapters are like 10 pages long and Viz media releases these books in like 30 Chapter books at a soild price of 10.99 or higher. Which is equlilant to a Graphic Novel. Anine/manga fans to put it bluntly are cheap skates. Though im sure that if the publisher would lower the price and release them like comics the sales could be stronger.


Another Thing i want to address about the pie chart is why Marvel is #1, Simply because they put out like 400 books a month with about 57% of those books being 3.99 or higher and only 3-5 books are worth picking up. DC puts out maybe 50-75 books a month at 2.99 with very few 3.99 or higher book. Obviously qulitly is out weighs quality

[blinkboy211]

Why is Viz media not far ahead or even in the realm to competitive with the big 2? Well I don't see many people reading manga in the store so that is sort of off. The thing is half of what you can get in manga and anime you can just get online. Hell there are plenty of sites that allow you to download or jsut read the manga online and download as many episodes of the anime you want. Makes it really pointless to buy manga or anime box sets from Viz if you can get that stuff free online. The only sites I seen you can get comics online you still end up having to pay a monthly fee to use it.

[Johnny Stooge]

Originally Posted by Flower

Of course it's unhealthy; that doesn't stop anyone, though. I do buy my manga...

But how much manga do you buy compared to what you download? And do you buy books you've already read online?

Originally Posted by blinkboy211

Why is Viz media not far ahead or even in the realm to competitive with the big 2? Well I don't see many people reading manga in the store so that is sort of off. The thing is half of what you can get in manga and anime you can just get online. Hell there are plenty of sites that allow you to download or jsut read the manga online and download as many episodes of the anime you want. Makes it really pointless to buy manga or anime box sets from Viz if you can get that stuff free online. The only sites I seen you can get comics online you still end up having to pay a monthly fee to use it.

But don't you feel bad for technically "stealing" from an artist? If you like a manga series you'd want to see it continue until it's end, right? Well what happens when there are more people downloading than buying and the costs to keep it in production are too much and it has to be cancelled? Wouldn't you like to support a book with your dollar?
I didn't mention the economic crisis for no reason.

I have downloaded comics. And I'm not talking about monthly fee ones. It's very easy if you know where to look. But when I download a book, it's because I have the intention to buy that series. If want to start buying a book, I'll download a few issues and if I like what I read I'll start buying. I've downloaded books I already own for a digital backup, and books I definitely know I'm going to buy. I try to keep myself as honest as I can.
But what I can say, as I'm quite sure many of you can't, is that my digital comics library is no where near the amount of actual comic books I own.
And that's another question I have: I would much rather have a physical copy of a book in my hand to read. I can't stand staring at the computer screen for long periods, reading. And manga hurts especially since it's all black and white.

Originally Posted by Oblivion fenrir

The world of Manga and comics are to be fused! The legendary Stan Lee is working with the Creator of Shaman King To create a comic/manga cross called Ultimo!

I wouldn't read anything Stan Lee puts out now. What he did was great for the 60's and 70's, but his writing style does not age well.
The man should just enjoy his retirement.

[Chrono Mizaki]

Anime/Manga fans are like what Vice described 'Cheap Skate'. Out of all the fanbase I've seen, whether it's movie, games or books... The Anime fanbase have to be the most spoilt, rotten bunch of twats I've ever seen. No matter what, they will whine and cry, even for every concession you make. Manga, in the West, compared to Manga aren't clamped down on the net as much as Anime. The west prefers Anime to Manga and pretty much, hardly cares for them.

I do buy my Manga, albiet it's expensive.. But that's because of Britain's bloody state. At least I got Amazon.

I do read Manga on the net, I admit that. But I don't bloody make up excuses and just buy them. The majority of the fanbase should be slaughtered... imo... because they make every complaint to avoid buying it. These people actually work to satisfy your 'hobbies' and the least people can do is pay for it. But no, they can't be arsed to fucking spare a pennie.

And the most ironic thing of all? America has the gall to complain about the price. Fuck you, Americans. Look at our country and our prices. Look at Australia and their prices. Be grateful that you're getting it at that price because we would do anything to get it around that price.

As for DC Comics and Marvel. They produce short comics, pack them into one monthly/weekly collection and sell them for an affordable price. I cannot argue with that, and that's really why they are so sucessful. Because it's cheap and full of multiple stories, though imo: it's less fleshed-out than the manga. But crappier story? Nope, that's the appeal of american comics.

Mind you, the best kind of American Graphic Novels are either Zombie ones... or Hybrid Manga/Comic types.

[blinkboy211]

But don't you feel bad for technically "stealing" from an artist? If you like a manga series you'd want to see it continue until it's end, right? Well what happens when there are more people downloading than buying and the costs to keep it in production are too much and it has to be cancelled? Wouldn't you like to support a book with your dollar?
I didn't mention the economic crisis for no reason.

No i don't feel bad. I do continue the manga series till the end, but I just download the stuff. Hell most sites that do have it need to have permission from the source in order to allow download. So when I download someone else is paying them to allow it pretty much. What I want to know is how much Viz Media makes on merchandise that isn't manga/anime but instead clothing or other things you get from the anime/manga (such as headwear or stickers or things of the sort).

Economic crisis also goes both ways. Who says I have the disposable income to buy the manga or comics. A lot of people are short on cash so the internet is a fast-usually free way to download your manga and comics.

[auron10_KING.dvx]

i wouldn't claim to actually know anything about it, but yeah I would assume that most people get their manga via the internet, considering that's probably where most of the fanbase lives

I don't know how much comic books are these days, but I know that most manga here is $17 and upwards, so it could be that the price is a bit of a turn-off

I would also find it hard to believe that the manga fanbase is larger, or even of an equivalent size to the comic fanbase. Comics have been around in the west for over fifty years, right? Comparatively, manga is still a relatively new phenomenon in the west, and although it's appeal would have been boosted due to the internet, I still can't picture it beating half a decade of a growing piece of culture.


Personally I prefer to buy my manga. I like owning the physical copy rather than reading on a screen. That being said, I don't get to read as much as I like because money is usually an issue.