Liking Riku for his looks alone is pretty...piss of worthy. Like those who like Terra only for his abs. and Yeah it comes down to taste between the two when you think about it xD If you're into the quiet reserved type or the out-going, awesome best-friend, girl next-door type xD Yeah every character in CoM and their actions/feelings complimented that of other characters making it seem in my opinion less forced like days. if you hate, hate for a decent reason. Some people I've met hate Xion because she looks like Kairi. wtf is that?
I guess people just can't wrap their head around having a plot device as a central character (like kairi and more or less ven even though theres not that many Ven haters, then again they're aren't many die hard fans either). And Idk, I guess that why people liked the idea of having this false friendship that tied them all together in CoM, of course they needed to do that to make Namine less random. Falsifying her history with Sora and giving him the fake memories of her was basically giving the audience a fake history with her too, not exactly being forced to accept that Xion was apart of Roxas and Axel's past. I dunno about you but was right there with Sora when he felt obligated to rescue Nami even though I had no idea who she was, and knew she did not belong in the picture. Where as with RAX it wasn't a giant lie so they must accept that this is how it happened. But as you it also had to do with everyone already being used to the fact that back in Roxas time with the Org he was just friends with Axel, so everyone's like who the fluff is this chick claiming to be apart of the group.
And the scene I believe happened right after Roxas absorbs Xion. Namine is in front of a sleeping Sora and she mutters his name, then DiZ comes in all Christopher Lee badassery and goes, "It appears we've come to a stand still. This has gone on long enough. Riku I think you know what needs to be done." And Riku's behind him even more badass and just says, "Right." Then commence Roxas vendetta against the Org.
here it is :D Riku's Resolve
Even the title could have suggested that Riku had awakened a new resolve to bring in Roxas without the need of Xion begging him to stop Roxas for her.
And yeah, I find the transgender hate to be rather unnecessary but the puppet jokes to be kinda hilarious. xD
Yes, people like Riku only for his looks ._. sad.
And I think part of why I like Xion better than Nami is that I just like the perky, peppy "tomboy" better than I do the quiet types. Plot wise I think they're both amazing and development wise are decent. What irks me is that Xion's plot was far more wide-spread, so the focus they attempted to keep on Roxas ruined it (like, say, what the hell happened with Riku? In CO? Blanks :( ), whereas even the focus they kept on Sora in CoM only HELPED Namine's story. So in that aspect I agree with you, Namine was better constructed if only because CoM as a whole was put together better than Days where Xion was the plot, but the focus kept shifting regardless, despite what the haters say. as much Xion as we got, we got mostly ice cream scenes and more important elements went missing.
And I hear you. That's why whenever someone says they hate Kairi for forgetting Sora in KH2, I actually defend her. If you hate, hate for a reason.
I donno. I see where they're coming from plot-wise but it's like... calling Kairi a Mary Sue for being a plot device. She's not, she's just a main character who's... well, a plot device. So things happen to her and the other characters react to it. Same with Xion and Roxas - Xion goes through stuff (albeit less passively than Kairi), and Roxas and Axel react to those developments. Some people say it would've been better had Xion been introduced before but I doubt there's ever been this much hate towards Namine. Came out of nowhere, became Sora's instant romantic interest, had these amazing, mystical powers and basically ruined everything. About the only difference between her and Xion is that Xion was supposed to be Roxas's would be romantic interest (Again, to reflect on SoKai, heaven forbids anything individial) and that we got to see why RAX were friends instead of being told about the made-up Memories that made Sora and Repliku care.
That aside, I can only say that from my interaction with the fandom, people care a lot less about Sora and Riku in that regard than Axel and Roxas. So when Namine came along or Kairi was even introduced, there was a lot less rage compared to Xion who ruined what the fandom has had a couple of years to fantasize over between KH2 and Days :V
The Sora element makes sense, I'll give him that, but it seems more like Riku had to pull the Sora out of Roxas. Also, Roxas was fighting it with all he had, so.
And I don't really remember, but do you remember when that scene was? Because I recall Diz saying several things to Riku, but they were all in regards to Xion eating away at Sora's Memories, less so in regards to Riku. So it still adds up - Diz pushed Riku about Xion, then when Xion was absorbed by Roxas, there was only one thing left for them to do and that was to bring Roxas back.
But I don't really remember x.x;
Ya, insulting isn't fun, not really. I also don't really like how anti-transgender those debates seem at times xD;;;
Also, some posts there should be moded. But I don't care enough xD;
(People actually like Riku just for his looks?...That's amazing.) I mean I gave Xion a shot. I like her a hell lot more than Kairi but I didn't see anything spectacular about her. Nami stuck to me better than Xion did and she was in the same damsel boat as Kairi. I wonder why that is xD. But if I hate on someone I like to have reasons to do so. and valid reasons at that. same thing goes for why I'd like a character.
Yeah there's a point where people can agree on some things but there's always that point where opinions will eventually split regardless of what's given. It's who they are, it's there opinion. But recently people have been trying to literally destroy others opinions and force them to take their opinions over their own as if it were fact.
The Mary sue thing made sense to me at first but then it didn't after reviewing Xion's character more. but that doesn't make me like her anymore it just made me understand her better. A lot of Xion-haters have little arguments beyond the, "she ruined my Roxas game!" or "she's such a sue!" Idk. I can't say I'm a Xion fan, but I'm not a hater either xD I guess she's in the same boat as Ven (important character that I don't really find interesting).
In that Deep Dive convo I told you about the guy said why couldn't Roxas just throw Riku the keyblade cuz he needed help (unlikely obviously), or maybe Roxas subconsciously threw it to Riku because it's something Sora might have done, or something like that. He was just really pissed it was Xion moving Roxas' hand xD
Another thing he said was the line DiZ dropped in KH2 and the line he said in Days. When Ansem told mickey in KH2 that Riku left without a word after he heard capturing Roxas would wake Sora and when DiZ said in Days, "It appears we've come to a stand still. Riku, I think you know what needs to be done." Like pushing Riku to the point where if he liked it or not he'd have to take Roxas down, making him appear bat-shit crazy xD
When I was in the Xion HC before there was some pretty funny stuff. but then a few Xion-lovers came in and then there was this heated debate where people were actually insulting each other so I left. I didn't check since. xD
Being a Kairi hater, I know how fans get. That's why after a while I tried toning down my attitude towards Xion haters. But haters will hate for stupid reasons as lovers will love for stupid reasons, regardless of the character (I want to wring the necks of anyone who loves Riku just for his looks. You like who's about the best character in the series for THAT?! I mean sure, nice bonus, but wot?!).
And nah. I'm not even talking about the people who'll disagree because they just can't see it (lord knows I debated far and wide with Kairi lovers; I just don't see things they way they do), but a lot of people won't even give her a chance. To them, Xion's to blame for the ruinage of what was, to them, supposed to be a glorious Org13 fanservice game and there's no redemption.
I laugh quietly and relish her plot influence beyond Days
I don't really mind not changing your mind or reaching an agreement. Some of my best debates throughout my being in this or any other fandom ended in "let's agree to disagree". You debated, showed your opinions, heard the other person out, and it just so happens that you finally reached at that unbridgable difference in opinions, that thing which makes you you and no one else, and thus makes you see things in a certain way and not another. Like, some people can forgive Kairi's raft comment; I can't. With no other explanation or insight given about that comment, it can go both ways and people just have to respect that.
It's just that disagreeing is vile and rotten nowadays. And Mary Sue pops up far too often for comfort and people expect me to take it lying down when their best includes linking me to tvtropes. Yeah sure, and the Kairi HC has a hive mind why again? *vents, rants, foams*
Deep Dive I think is another thing altogether in that regard, though I have to admit that it does explain some things, like... dude, Roxas. Why give Riku the Oblivion again? You seemed to do well enough on your own and you went to FIGHT the guy on his way down. So what the hell is up with that?
Also, seeing how Riku's been throughout Days, it didn't really make sense for him to go bat-shit crazy on Roxas's ass after how he's been with Xion. But Xion herself playing a part suddenly fixes that as well.
But then again I never cared all that much for Deep Dive. I mean sure, it was cool and all, but it's a concept video. It was never meant to be taken at face value or "literally". Even the KH2/FM+ secret endings weren't exactly the same when BBS finally came along, and let's face it - BBS was a lot less epic than the secret endings. Because secret endings are SUPPOSED to be epic and have the luxury of being detached while the games, as epic as they may be, need to take into consideration everything else that's happened up to that point and that is already planned to happen afterward.
I'd sooner stop watching secret endings rather than get disappointed over how they actually played out when put inside the games.
The Xion FC is kind of in lul mode now xD pics and hype but nothing serious. Clean fun =D
Though to be fair, from what I've seen? ...the Kairi HC never was that bad xD; ever.
I wonder if it's because we've been hating for longer, have more hope what with Kairi being her own person, had Kairi less-ruin things we cared less about compared with Org fans, or have an easier-to-ignore "pairing" involving her xD;;; whereas Roxas is obsessed with Xion.
Seriously i was always bashed for questioning her xD To be honest your argument on why Xion is a pretty decent character is top-notch. its just that you are probably the only one who gives a decent argument so the haters don't bother to be given an explanation when they know its just gonna be filled with "xion-hater! you're stupid! she's a great character!" etc
Seriously. Everyone already has an opinion about a certain character or event in the story and are not willing to hear anything against it or contradicting it. No one's willing to hear the other person out anymore. (i tend to do this only with Riku though as you saw with the Vanitas/Riku thing xD i loves me Riku, i cant help it :3) And things get far too personal waaaay too fast. they start bashing the other's intelligence or throw their love of the series into question. it's not fun anymore. it's just irritating.
But I guess what most Xion-haters don't really understand, or want to understand, is why Xion had such a big impact on the story, while Roxas had little, and then up and take her out of the story by having her forgotten? i remember a guy venting about when it came to Deep Dive. he was upset that they put xion in the scene only to be forgetten. feeling that was just downplaying the scene. he was rather convincing xD
and i steer clear from the xion FC/HC now because of the hate going around xD i'm usually in pairing FC now
Well, like you said - people usually don't bother asking, and people usually don't bother answering in a decent manner. But I'm the first person to admit that debates can and do change people's minds :3
Mind giving me tips what I need to work on more? XD >:3
The fandom's just split. I'm not saying, even when it was "just" over Kairi, heated debates could get ugly :\ and disagreeing instantly meant the other side was stupid and blind. But now, it's even worse. You can't even raise an argument about a character before your own personality - something the other person has no idea about - is brought into question.
What irks me the most I guess is that far too many Xion haters used to whine and moan about Kairi hate threads even when they came only once in a while and the debate was going well. Gotta love hypocrisy >_>; I mean sure, I don't like Xion hate threads - so I just stay away xD;
Actually after our little discussion back then I haven't hated Xion so much. I still haven't accepted her, but i don't hate her anymore xD
Yeah I know what you mean. It's not really as fun like it was back in the day when everyone would spit ideas around and debunk others. like Audo's old threads :/ so much hostility now xD
Maybe I'll get you to accept Xion yet? :D
Ya. I kind of prefer that sort of debates over theories nowadays xD; though those too can get tedious.
I dislike how everything just seems so personal D:
same! they really resurface nostalgic feelings I had towards KH XD
I seriously love debating with you XD