Will Master Xehanort use Aqua for his evil plan on KH3?

[Sephiroth0812]

It's a fascinating concept. It's not "new" but in the age old concept of good vs. evil the vast majority of the time it's darkness=bad and light=good. Basically it mixes things up because even though it doesn't technically matter of the enemy is Light or Darkness based one element is typically associated with a "side".

Must be my mind then that I seem to fail to be fascinated by it, lol.
The darkness in the KH Universe has also been shown to having corrupting and harmful influence associated mainly with "negative"/instinctic emotions just like in other stories as well as the Light being the primary force of cleansing and comforting influences and "positive"/rational emotions.
This "associated with a side" fact also still holds true in the KH Universe because the properties of the two elements gear towards emotions and actions most people associate with "good" and "evil".
Even Mickey and Riku do not really welcome the darkness, they only tolerate it as a neccessary element of what makes up the universe, although this is also questionable since it was said by Kairi's grandmother as well as confirmed by Xehanort himself that before the Keyblade War turned everything asunder, the world was filled completely with Light (and KH itself, the big divine power most villains are after, is said to be pure Light) and Darkness was only "born" in the hearts of people during the events of the Keyblade War due to greed, hunger for power and the constant infighting between Keyblade Wielders.

This is sort of what I'm getting at. Darkness and Light within KH are neutral but KH it self doesn't treat it that way most of the time. Light is still largely associated with good and Darkness with bad, even though it's not. This is why fans want an "Enemy of Light". Besides being an interesting concept, it's for the sake of balance because despite what KH says about the neutrality in Darkness and Light, we've only ever seen one side of Light.

Maybe "neutral" isn't really the right word as the KH games treat Darkness more like a force that is neccessary to exist but that shouldn't be really tampered around with. Most villains use darkness because its power is quick to attain, gets stronger by mostly negative emotions and because it's easier to become addicted to it, like a drug.
As we see with Riku (and later on most likely Terra), the ones who can really use Darkness for "good" are very rare, and I would guess that goes the same way for people who use Light for "evil".
What balance? As far as I see right now in the KH Universe when looking at the whole series so far there is already an imbalance in favor of Darkness. In KH 1, we had Darkness invading and destroying hundred if not thousands of worlds in the Realm of Light, which isn't even a full Realm anymore since the Keyblade War.
The Realm of Darkness is one complete, united world while the RoL is shattered into pieces (the separated worlds restored by the children who survived the Keyblade War with their pure light intact) and the space between the "dot-worlds" in the RoL is occupied with the Lanes Between, which are, surprise surprise, filled with Darkness.
Now in KH: DDD Maleficent even manages to circumvent the Cornerstone of Light and infiltrate Disney Castle because according to Yen Sid Master Xehanort's great dark influence enhances her powers.
Sounds to me more like the Light is at a disadvantage...*ggg*

I doubt that Aqua will ever be a villain as well, I just understand where the whole "Aqua turning evil thing" comes from and why fans see motive behind it.

By now I understand these "motives" as well, although as I said, I consider them to be extremely thin. Too thin to really convincingly pull of a total turn of Aqua towards becoming an oppressive bitch.

The way I see it, Aqua might be wary of Riku at first, maybe vocal about him, but will eventually come to accept him as time goes on and he proves himself.

Uh, Riku already DID prove himself, that is one of the focal points of Dream Drop Distance. That's why he has become a Keyblade Master now. Riku already made the step Terra couldn't make in BBS due to circumstances.

I know Terra was attracted to his Light, what I was getting at was that Aqua might be initially afraid that Riku will meet the same fate as Terra since they're so closely connected and Riku already has a deep affinity for Darkness.

Riku already avoided the fate that befell Terra by successfully becoming a Keyblade Master and not only defeating Ansem SoD twice (in CoM and in DDD) but also saving Sora by pulling his heart out of the darkness in the end. Not to mention he has the full trust of Mickey and Yen Sid now.
Going by all this premise, I would instead not be surprised if Aqua actually places faith in Riku in order to get Terra to succeed in the same way he did.

I never said that Eraqus did anything villainous or out of ill intent. That seems to be something that has been greatly misinterpreted because that keeps being brought up.

That's why I said "it depends on how things develop in KH3". With MX trying to pull everyone's strings misguidance is bound to happen. With everyone preparing to fight him and his hoard it wouldn't surprise me if he tried to spread discord, not only with Aqua, but among all his enemies.

Sadly, this seems to have been misinterpreted by many people, as Eraqus is often portrayed worse than he actually is while Xehanort's crimes keep being trivialized.

Misguidance for sure, MX is a too good chessmaster to not have laid out some traps beforehand. Although spreading discord within his enemies may be more difficult by now since each of them knows by now who the common enemy is and they all unite against him. (I have to say that the final scene of the DDD opening actually captures that premise pretty well, only Kairi, Lea and maybe Xion were actually missing in the group).

That was me half bring up the "Enemy of Light" thing as an interesting concept, half jesting, but sarcasm doesn't translate well over text.

Ah, so I really read that one wrong. ^___^
Good to know.

[Alan Smithee]

(EDIT: This post has been erased.)

^ A new solution that I came up with in case I find myself obsessively and constantly editing a post. Basically I just go, "Screw this!" and spare myself the stress. If you see me posting the above message in the future, now you'll know why.

[Ruran]

Must be my mind then that I seem to fail to be fascinated by it, lol.
The darkness in the KH Universe has also been shown to having corrupting and harmful influence associated mainly with "negative"/instinctic emotions just like in other stories as well as the Light being the primary force of cleansing and comforting influences and "positive"/rational emotions.
This "associated with a side" fact also still holds true in the KH Universe because the properties of the two elements gear towards emotions and actions most people associate with "good" and "evil".
Even Mickey and Riku do not really welcome the darkness, they only tolerate it as a neccessary element of what makes up the universe, although this is also questionable since it was said by Kairi's grandmother as well as confirmed by Xehanort himself that before the Keyblade War turned everything asunder, the world was filled completely with Light (and KH itself, the big divine power most villains are after, is said to be pure Light) and Darkness was only "born" in the hearts of people during the events of the Keyblade War due to greed, hunger for power and the constant infighting between Keyblade Wielders.

The idea of "Enemy of Light" is pretty YMMV I suppose.

Agreed, ultimately Darkness is still more of a "negative" force and Light more "positive", though both still necessary.

Maybe "neutral" isn't really the right word as the KH games treat Darkness more like a force that is neccessary to exist but that shouldn't be really tampered around with. Most villains use darkness because its power is quick to attain, gets stronger by mostly negative emotions and because it's easier to become addicted to it, like a drug.
As we see with Riku (and later on most likely Terra), the ones who can really use Darkness for "good" are very rare, and I would guess that goes the same way for people who use Light for "evil".
What balance? As far as I see right now in the KH Universe when looking at the whole series so far there is already an imbalance in favor of Darkness. In KH 1, we had Darkness invading and destroying hundred if not thousands of worlds in the Realm of Light, which isn't even a full Realm anymore since the Keyblade War.
The Realm of Darkness is one complete, united world while the RoL is shattered into pieces (the separated worlds restored by the children who survived the Keyblade War with their pure light intact) and the space between the "dot-worlds" in the RoL is occupied with the Lanes Between, which are, surprise surprise, filled with Darkness.
Now in KH: DDD Maleficent even manages to circumvent the Cornerstone of Light and infiltrate Disney Castle because according to Yen Sid Master Xehanort's great dark influence enhances her powers.
Sounds to me more like the Light is at a disadvantage...*ggg*

"Balance" as far as showing that Light and Darkness are "neutral" and therefor, either one can be used for good of evil; however a person using it desires. Although neither of them are really all that "neutral", ultimately.

By now I understand these "motives" as well, although as I said, I consider them to be extremely thin. Too thin to really convincingly pull of a total turn of Aqua towards becoming an oppressive bitch.

Fair enough.

Uh, Riku already DID prove himself, that is one of the focal points of Dream Drop Distance. That's why he has become a Keyblade Master now. Riku already made the step Terra couldn't make in BBS due to circumstances.

Prove himself to Aqua. She doesn't know him very well, or of his achievements, or every thing he's done and been through to get where he is now.

Riku already avoided the fate that befell Terra by successfully becoming a Keyblade Master and not only defeating Ansem SoD twice (in CoM and in DDD) but also saving Sora by pulling his heart out of the darkness in the end. Not to mention he has the full trust of Mickey and Yen Sid now.
Going by all this premise, I would instead not be surprised if Aqua actually places faith in Riku in order to get Terra to succeed in the same way he did.

Aqua doesn't initially know any of this. Unless Riku writes an autobiography and somehow ships it to her via RoD P.O. Box Aqua's going to have to get to know him over time, which is the key thing here, time. I don't doubt that Riku and Aqua will be good friends, but what I keep trying to get at is their initial meeting. MX is a Keyblade Master too, ME and Yen Sid used to trust MX and even when he was putting his plans to action in BbS Yen Sid was concerned but he wanted to give MX the benefit of the doubt. Mickey, Aqua doesn't know very well at all.

TL;DR the best way for Aqua to get to know Riku is to try and get to know him personally. We, the audience, know that Riku can be trusted, we know every thing he's done up till now but Aqua doesn't.

[Sephiroth0812]

It's possible to have Aqua turn into an anti-villain who'll feel that she has no choice but to take KH for herself instead of Xehanort and use it to destroy the RoD in order to make Darkness finally leave her and her friends alone.

If she does become a Boss, then she'll probably just put up a barrier to keep Terra and Ven out of the fight.

Heh, sorry but that's even more unrealistic for three simple reasons:

1. Aqua is not power hungry so she would never take the power of KH for herself, she's not Xehanort!
2. The RoD, and Darkness in itself can't be destroyed, even Eraqus knew that and so does Aqua. It's also not "the Darkness" that is responsible for the suffering of her friends but one person, and that is Xehanort.
3. In order to gain the power of KH Aqua would have to use the X-blade, and the X-blade can only be made by capturing the hearts needed to forge it inside it. Even if she would rationalize that Sora, Riku, Mickey and whoever the seventh light is can be sacrificed for it (which she also would never do when they really pay attention to her characterization) Terra's and Ven's hearts are also needed for it, for the latter it would even be the second time to be used for this.
So in order to "save" her friends she would need to forge their hearts into a super-weapon? That's a contradiction in itself.

The idea of "Enemy of Light" is pretty YMMV I suppose.

Agreed, ultimately Darkness is still more of a "negative" force and Light more "positive", though both still necessary.

That it is indeed. There's also always the danger that a "light" enemy invites trivializing the dangers darkness poses and causes people to recklessly fall to it.

Another point one has to keep in mind is that the main "world" in the KH Universe is the Realm of Light and therefore most characters hail from it, meaning that in the whole structure of the mythos Light is always seen as something "special" and less to "worry" about.
Maybe the already often recited quote of "the light in the deepest darkness" also plays into that as well as Kairi's grandma's story about how with a strong light the darkness can "never defeat you."

"Balance" as far as showing that Light and Darkness are "neutral" and therefor, either one can be used for good of evil; however a person using it desires. Although neither of them are really all that "neutral", ultimately.

The second sentence already says it clearly I think, now, if I recap it from the whole series, I don't remember one of the characters nor Nomura ever saying that Light or Darkness are "neutral" or anything. It was only mentioned that Darkness (at least since it was born during the Keyblade War) is a part of the natural order of things, which Mickey apparently only realized during the events of Chain of Memories when watching Riku. In KH2 Riku also points out that while the Darkness itself may not be "evil", but mostly those who are lurking inside and are addicted to it.
Maybe I am also so wary of it because I've experienced it that some only want Light to be "evil" so they have propaganda for Darkness and can advocate it because it's supposedly "cooler".

Fair enough.

Thanks. ;)
But for real, while she comes over a bit bossy sometimes Aqua is a very nice person. ^_^

Prove himself to Aqua. She doesn't know him very well, or of his achievements, or every thing he's done and been through to get where he is now.

The question would however then also be why would Riku even give a damn about "proving" himself to Aqua? The important people who matter already know about it anyways.
The most logical reason I could imagine is that he goes to show her some things in order to finally reprieve her worries about Terra by showing how one can be a decent Keyblade Wielder even with Darkness.

Aqua doesn't initially know any of this. Unless Riku writes an autobiography and somehow ships it to her via RoD P.O. Box Aqua's going to have to get to know him over time, which is the key thing here, time. I don't doubt that Riku and Aqua will be good friends, but what I keep trying to get at is their initial meeting. MX is a Keyblade Master too, ME and Yen Sid used to trust MX and even when he was putting his plans to action in BbS Yen Sid was concerned but he wanted to give MX the benefit of the doubt. Mickey, Aqua doesn't know very well at all.

TL;DR the best way for Aqua to get to know Riku is to try and get to know him personally. We, the audience, know that Riku can be trusted, we know every thing he's done up till now but Aqua doesn't.

Lol á the autobiography, he could then ask Kairi for one of her bottles to send it to Aqua and then let Mickey plant a tracking device in it so they can finally locate her in the RoD and pull her out together with Ansem the Wise.

Now serious again though, I do believe we got a bit off-topic about there possibly being some wariness on Aqua's side towards Riku. It doesn't really matter anyways, at least not enough to turn her around into an "enemy of light" with a foaming mouth who shouts in a robotic tone "KILL DARKNESS!", rofl.
Plus, even if there is some animosity, Sora with his usual cheerful charme will quickly win her over anyways. ;D

[Ruran]

The question would however then also be why would Riku even give a damn about "proving" himself to Aqua? The important people who matter already know about it anyways.
The most logical reason I could imagine is that he goes to show her some things in order to finally reprieve her worries about Terra by showing how one can be a decent Keyblade Wielder even with Darkness.

Riku's not really the type to care what anyone else thinks but he and Aqua have to work together because they have a common enemy. Maybe "prove to" wasn't the best wording, but the "issue" is that Aqua detests the darkness and thanks to people like MX, Vanitas, and Maleficent abusing it, she doesn't see how anyone that uses can possibly be good because Darkness corrupts. I can't imagine her brushing something that's such a big part of Riku off or taking it lightly because he says he's a good guy. One way or another I think he'll show Aqua that it can be controlled and not destroy or corrupt you in the process.

Lol á the autobiography, he could then ask Kairi for one of her bottles to send it to Aqua and then let Mickey plant a tracking device in it so they can finally locate her in the RoD and pull her out together with Ansem the Wise.

Now serious again though, I do believe we got a bit off-topic about there possibly being some wariness on Aqua's side towards Riku. It doesn't really matter anyways, at least not enough to turn her around into an "enemy of light" with a foaming mouth who shouts in a robotic tone "KILL DARKNESS!", rofl.
Plus, even if there is some animosity, Sora with his usual cheerful charme will quickly win her over anyways. ;D

'tis brilliant! Someone should tell Mickey!

Yeah, I think the OP's been answered already. In the long run, Aqua is already an unwitting "pawn" in MX's grand scheme. Though if Aqua ever goes to the Dark side of Light, Sora just use the power of FFFFFRRRRRRRRRRIIIIIIIEEEENNNNNNNNDDDDDSSSSSSSSSSHHHHHHHHHHHHHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIPPPPPP!!111!!1

It solves all problems, tru fax.

[Sephiroth0812]

Riku's not really the type to care what anyone else thinks but he and Aqua have to work together because they have a common enemy. Maybe "prove to" wasn't the best wording, but the "issue" is that Aqua detests the darkness and thanks to people like MX, Vanitas, and Maleficent abusing it, she doesn't see how anyone that uses can possibly be good because Darkness corrupts. I can't imagine her brushing something that's such a big part of Riku off or taking it lightly because he says he's a good guy. One way or another I think he'll show Aqua that it can be controlled and not destroy or corrupt you in the process.

Yep, and I dare think that Aqua is professional enough to realize that, especially if Sora, Mickey and most likely Lea and Kairi are also adding their bits to the cause. Not to mention Ansem the Wise, when he regains his memories, can give plenty of information about the time he worked with Riku.
Well, that Darkness corrupts is a fact that cannot be changed, Aqua's absolutely right with that one and not even the biggest Darkness supporters can blabber that away with propaganda. Still, Riku is the perfect example to show her that it's possible to resist the corrupting influence of Darkness. It will definitely an interesting part to see that, this is also one of the several reasons why I am looking forward towards the different main "trios" of the main characters finally meeting each other in person, not only through hearts, memories or dreams.

'tis brilliant! Someone should tell Mickey!

Yeah, I think the OP's been answered already. In the long run, Aqua is already an unwitting "pawn" in MX's grand scheme. Though if Aqua ever goes to the Dark side of Light, Sora just use the power of FFFFFRRRRRRRRRRIIIIIIIEEEENNNNNNNNDDDDDSSSSSSSSSSHHHHHHHHHHHHHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIPPPPPP!!111!!1

It solves all problems, tru fax.

Yep, would save them much time. They could task Gyro Gearloose, the inventor from the Disney comics, with preparing that device. But surely not funded by Scrooge McDuck, because then it would be crap material, loool.

Indeed, it will be so satisfying when all of MX's pawns finally cut their strings and MX loses control of his own complex chess game. *ggg*
Heh, and if even that is not enough in this case Aqua will be subjected to the double dose of Friendship-power by a joint cuteness-attack of Sora and Ventus, rofl.

I could really imagine that last sentence being said by Sora, with Ven nodding beside him and both do their "hands-behind-head"-stance with the obligatory wide smile. *ggg*

[Alan Smithee]

Heh, sorry but that's even more unrealistic for three simple reasons:

1. Aqua is not power hungry so she would never take the power of KH for herself, she's not Xehanort!
2. The RoD, and Darkness in itself can't be destroyed, even Eraqus knew that and so does Aqua. It's also not "the Darkness" that is responsible for the suffering of her friends but one person, and that is Xehanort.
3. In order to gain the power of KH Aqua would have to use the X-blade, and the X-blade can only be made by capturing the hearts needed to forge it inside it. Even if she would rationalize that Sora, Riku, Mickey and whoever the seventh light is can be sacrificed for it (which she also would never do when they really pay attention to her characterization) Terra's and Ven's hearts are also needed for it, for the latter it would even be the second time to be used for this.
So in order to "save" her friends she would need to forge their hearts into a super-weapon? That's a contradiction in itself.



That it is indeed. There's also always the danger that a "light" enemy invites trivializing the dangers darkness poses and causes people to recklessly fall to it.

Another point one has to keep in mind is that the main "world" in the KH Universe is the Realm of Light and therefore most characters hail from it, meaning that in the whole structure of the mythos Light is always seen as something "special" and less to "worry" about.
Maybe the already often recited quote of "the light in the deepest darkness" also plays into that as well as Kairi's grandma's story about how with a strong light the darkness can "never defeat you."


The second sentence already says it clearly I think, now, if I recap it from the whole series, I don't remember one of the characters nor Nomura ever saying that Light or Darkness are "neutral" or anything. It was only mentioned that Darkness (at least since it was born during the Keyblade War) is a part of the natural order of things, which Mickey apparently only realized during the events of Chain of Memories when watching Riku. In KH2 Riku also points out that while the Darkness itself may not be "evil", but mostly those who are lurking inside and are addicted to it.
Maybe I am also so wary of it because I've experienced it that some only want Light to be "evil" so they have propaganda for Darkness and can advocate it because it's supposedly "cooler".


Thanks. ;)
But for real, while she comes over a bit bossy sometimes Aqua is a very nice person. ^_^


The question would however then also be why would Riku even give a damn about "proving" himself to Aqua? The important people who matter already know about it anyways.
The most logical reason I could imagine is that he goes to show her some things in order to finally reprieve her worries about Terra by showing how one can be a decent Keyblade Wielder even with Darkness.




Lol á the autobiography, he could then ask Kairi for one of her bottles to send it to Aqua and then let Mickey plant a tracking device in it so they can finally locate her in the RoD and pull her out together with Ansem the Wise.

Now serious again though, I do believe we got a bit off-topic about there possibly being some wariness on Aqua's side towards Riku. It doesn't really matter anyways, at least not enough to turn her around into an "enemy of light" with a foaming mouth who shouts in a robotic tone "KILL DARKNESS!", rofl.
Plus, even if there is some animosity, Sora with his usual cheerful charme will quickly win her over anyways. ;D

1. And she wouldn't be. She would just want to go back to the "old days" before BBS when she, Terra, Ven, and Eraqus lived and trained peacefully. However, thanks to MX's Darkness-based actions, she now believes that Darkness will never allow that to happen. Instead of becoming a tyrant like MX, Aqua would become a "Woobie, Destroyer of Worlds" (look it up on TV Tropes).

2. I should've said "collapse" instead of "destroy". Various characters mention stuff about the Worlds "collapsing", so I should've said something like, "She would try to use the Light from KH to disrupt the RoD and cause its collapse, believing it the only way to preserve the RoL."

3. I was under the assumption that it was merely the energies from the conflict between the 7 and the 13 that would spawn the X-Blade. I don't remember hearing about them actually having to sacrifice their Hearts. Especially since MX himself is part of that group; how would he wield the X-Blade if he is assimilated into it? Maybe I'm missing something, though.

[King Chaser]

(EDIT: This post has been erased.)

^ A new solution that I came up with in case I find myself obsessively and constantly editing a post. Basically I just go, "Screw this!" and spare myself the stress. If you see me posting the above message in the future, now you'll know why.

Honestly, I hate to bump this, but seeing as how you've blocked Private messaging, I have to inform you here.

Please do not edit your posts say that. If you do not want a post to exist, please contact a moderator so we can deal with the post in question. Thank you.

[Alan Smithee]

Honestly, I hate to bump this, but seeing as how you've blocked Private messaging, I have to inform you here.

Please do not edit your posts say that. If you do not want a post to exist, please contact a moderator so we can deal with the post in question. Thank you.

Sorry about that; I just wish we could delete our own posts.