Namine and Roxas - created at the same time?!

**SufferingAngel** · 07/04/08, 08:31 PM

I... think I found proof otherwise.

IF YOU'RE GOING TO TELL ME "THEY WERE BORN AT THE SAME TIME" WITHOUT A PROOF TO CONTRADICT THE POINTS I RAISED, OR WORSE YET WITH AN OFFENDING SMILIE OR GESTURE, KEEP IT TO YOURSELVES, I ALREADY HAD ENOUGH OF IT!!!

Seriously people, discussions here are somewhat ridiculous like that. Do you even read the messages you're replying to?

*Ahem*

I'll begin by saying that yes, I'm well aware this is what Ansem the Wise wrote in the Secret Ansem Reports in KH2.
I know that.
I also know he admits those are nothing but theories and hypothesise and that as far as being objective about Nobodies goes... the man is painfully lacking.
And as for Nomura and his interviews... then this'll just be yet another plot hole and inner contradiction for Kingdom Hearts. I think we're all used to it by now ~_~

There are many holes and info gaps in this theory and is why I'm mostly here to questions FM+ players and novel readers, but to me, unless stated otherwise - it makes sense.

AtW theorized that Namine was created when Sora released Kairi's Heart from his own Body - which is also when Roxas was created.

I will raise this question now -
When the Organization discovered Castle Oblivion and began moving into it - did they have Namine already?
For if they did -

She couldn't have been created at the same time as Roxas!

Half of the Organization was preparing to move into Castle Oblivion in order to conduct experiments there.
I'm assuming they already have Namine - namely, Namine was already created, or to be precise - her and Kairi already separated.
However -
At the time they were preparing to move - Xigbar says he had just recruited Marluxia.
Marluxia - Number XI.

So we have Namine and the Organization is moving into Castle Oblivion.
Last recruited Member - XI.

My problem?

I don't think Roxas was recruited so long after he was created - seeing how he was already wearing the Organization coat when he talked to Xemnas who told him "he went to see Sora" - referring to Sora's battle against the Unknown in the First Final Mix - it's before even CoM chronologically!

So when did they manage to recruit Larxene between Marluxia being recruited (a point in time we assume Namine already existed) and Roxas being recruited?
They hardly had time!

In other words -

Namine had to have been created long before Roxas to make the number gap between the Organization Members work!!!

Points which can bring this theory down -

Marluxia, Larxene and Roxas being recruited at roughly the same time
They moved into castle Oblivion without relation to Namine

Points which contradict them, and support my claim are -

Marluxia being given Castle Oblivion and Namine herself by Xemnas, as stated by Marluxia himself in CoM (another support to my claim - it can be implied he received Namine along with the castle!).
I doubt they'd have put him in charge of something so important if he had no time to prove himself - seeing how he's not one of the original 6.
So far Castle Oblivion's importance was in relevance to Namine. The Castle obviously has ties to Powers of Memories, however - Namine is the one who utilizes those powers. Without her it would seem meaningless to even pay that horrible castle a second glance.

Ladies and gentlemen - your opinions in the mater please! o.o

Omni Terra · 07/04/08, 08:41 PM

Namine came into being AT Castle Oblivion. Roxas came into being at Twilight Town sorry I believe what I believe but so do you so I'm not going to start flaming like some do.

**SufferingAngel** · 07/04/08, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roxas994

Namine came into being AT Castle Oblivion. Roxas came into being at Twilight Town sorry I believe what I believe but so do you so I'm not going to start flaming like some do.

I'm not asking to be flamed, I'm asking for a discussion.
Also, the point I raised wasn't where they were created, but when. Namine and Roxas materialized in different places, that I do not doubt.
However, this is why I believe they couldn't have been created at the same time. It has no relation to where they materialized.

~~tazztig~~ · 07/04/08, 08:54 PM

Well, Namine was born the same time as roxas but they didn't yet
know of roxas until xemnas found him. They brought him in the
organization and thats where it leads to KH 358/2 where a 14th
member joins then thats when roxas leaves org.13

**SufferingAngel** · 07/04/08, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tazztig

Well, Namine was born the same time as roxas but they didn't yet
know of roxas until xemnas found him.

How long did it take until they found Roxas?
And when between them moving to CO - for Namine - did they recruit Larxene that Roxas was 13 and not 12?
You can't say they didn't know of Roxas until after CoM because Vexen links to Roxas's Memories - they knew about him.

kebladewarior127 · 07/04/08, 09:01 PM

I have to disagree with that, because Kairi lost her heart way before Sora stabbed himself with Riku/Ansem's keyblade, and her body was inactive from the time Destiny Islands disappeared. Does anyone know why Roxas ended up in Twilight Town after he was created?

TrueRoxas527 · 07/04/08, 09:02 PM

Namine might have been created when her heart was taken out of her body, (which was on Destiny Islands) That might have given them about 10 hours before Roxas was created.... Ok, it's not that good a theory of mine. In fact, it sucks.

**SufferingAngel** · 07/04/08, 09:07 PM

Speaking as far as the Secret Ansem Reports go - Namine was created when Sora removed his and Kairi's Hearts from his Body.

Namine couldn't have been created when Kairi lost her Heart on DI - because the Body and Soul, needed to make the Nobody -
Were Kairi herself!!!

However, I'm bringing other points as to question the general point.
It was said in the Secret Ansem Reports When Namine was created - this thread is why it's contradictory.

HadesDragon · 07/04/08, 09:36 PM

Naminé and the memory experiments the Organization conducted using her powers, while a very important part of Castle Oblivion, isn't the only thing about it, or possibly not even the main one.

See, Xigbar mentions a "true goal of Castle Oblivion". That perhaps that is where Xemnas' other "friend" is.

Just throwing that out there.

**SufferingAngel** · 07/04/08, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HadesDragon

Naminé and the memory experiments the Organization conducted using her powers, while a very important part of Castle Oblivion, isn't the only thing about it, or possibly not even the main one.

See, Xigbar mentions a "true goal of Castle Oblivion". That perhaps that is where Xemnas' other "friend" is.

Just throwing that out there.

Well, like I say about lots of my theories - until bluntly stated otherwise, we can only shorten our lives while Nomura makes a mess of the story.

What you said doesn't contradict my theory, however - seeing how there being a "true goal" for the Castle might also mean that "on the side" we get Namine and the Memory experiments.
I doubt he'd have said that unless there was more than one goal at the time.

~~R.o.x.a.s~~ · 07/04/08, 09:45 PM

Agreed with tazztig, because Namine can alter ppl memories that are connected with sora. They only reason why vexen knew about roxas is because they found out that sora became a heartless.

**SufferingAngel** · 07/04/08, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R.o.x.a.s

Agreed with tazztig, because Namine can alter ppl memories that are connected with sora. They only reason why vexen knew about roxas is because they found out that sora became a heartless.

Proof showing Roxas was recruited to the Organization before CoM:

We all remember the scene where Roxas - already in his black coat - namely in the organization - walks up to Xemnas who tells him then that "I'ves been to see him - he looks a lot like you".
What Xemnas is referring to in this scene is his battle with Sora in the First Final Mix as the Unknown in Hollow Bastion.

Roxas was a part of the Organization before CoM - looks like he was recruited pretty damn fast even.

**CHARGE** · 07/04/08, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SufferingAngel

I will raise this question now -
When the Organization discovered Castle Oblivion and began moving into it - did they have Namine already?
For if they did -

She couldn't have been created at the same time as Roxas!

They didnt have Namine

**SufferingAngel** · 07/04/08, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CHARGE

They didnt have Namine

Then in that case, I'll kindly request -

Proof plz!

MxUltima · 07/04/08, 09:57 PM

yeah they were born around the same time and they did have Namine because if i remember right Marluxia said "When this castle was entrusted to me I got posesion of it,the girl (meaning namine),and all within it" or something like that

07/04/08, 08:31 PM	#1
SufferingAngel Ren's Owner <3 Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: The Farthest Reaches of your Memory Age: 22 Posts: 3,697 Rep Power: 5	Namine and Roxas - created at the same time?! I... think I found proof otherwise. IF YOU'RE GOING TO TELL ME "THEY WERE BORN AT THE SAME TIME" WITHOUT A PROOF TO CONTRADICT THE POINTS I RAISED, OR WORSE YET WITH AN OFFENDING SMILIE OR GESTURE, KEEP IT TO YOURSELVES, I ALREADY HAD ENOUGH OF IT!!! Seriously people, discussions here are somewhat ridiculous like that. Do you even read the messages you're replying to? Ahem I'll begin by saying that yes, I'm well aware this is what Ansem the Wise wrote in the Secret Ansem Reports in KH2. I know that. I also know he admits those are nothing but theories and hypothesise and that as far as being objective about Nobodies goes... the man is painfully lacking. And as for Nomura and his interviews... then this'll just be yet another plot hole and inner contradiction for Kingdom Hearts. I think we're all used to it by now ~_~ There are many holes and info gaps in this theory and is why I'm mostly here to questions FM+ players and novel readers, but to me, unless stated otherwise - it makes sense. AtW theorized that Namine was created when Sora released Kairi's Heart from his own Body - which is also when Roxas was created. I will raise this question now - When the Organization discovered Castle Oblivion and began moving into it - did they have Namine already? For if they did - *She couldn't have been created at the same time as Roxas!* Half of the Organization was preparing to move into Castle Oblivion in order to conduct experiments there. I'm assuming they already have Namine - namely, Namine was already created, or to be precise - her and Kairi already separated. However - At the time they were preparing to move - Xigbar says he had just recruited Marluxia. Marluxia - Number XI. So we have Namine and the Organization is moving into Castle Oblivion. Last recruited Member - XI. My problem? I don't think Roxas was recruited so long after he was created - seeing how he was already wearing the Organization coat when he talked to Xemnas who told him "he went to see Sora" - referring to Sora's battle against the Unknown in the First Final Mix - it's before even CoM chronologically! So when did they manage to recruit Larxene between Marluxia being recruited (a point in time we assume Namine already existed) and Roxas being recruited? They hardly had time! In other words - *Namine had to have been created long before Roxas* to make the number gap between the Organization Members work!!!** Points which can bring this theory down - Marluxia, Larxene and Roxas being recruited at roughly the same time They moved into castle Oblivion without relation to Namine Points which contradict them, and support my claim are - Marluxia being given Castle Oblivion and Namine herself by Xemnas, as stated by Marluxia himself in CoM (another support to my claim - it can be implied he received Namine along with the castle!). I doubt they'd have put him in charge of something so important if he had no time to prove himself - seeing how he's not one of the original 6. So far Castle Oblivion's importance was in relevance to Namine. The Castle obviously has ties to Powers of Memories, however - Namine is the one who utilizes those powers. Without her it would seem meaningless to even pay that horrible castle a second glance. Ladies and gentlemen - your opinions in the mater please! o.o Last edited by SufferingAngel; 07/04/08 at 10:27 PM.

07/04/08, 08:41 PM	#2
Omni Terra Organization Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Making Out With OT Cause He's So Damn Sexy =D Age: 13 Posts: 430 Rep Power: 1	Re: Namine and Roxas - created at the same time?! Namine came into being AT Castle Oblivion. Roxas came into being at Twilight Town sorry I believe what I believe but so do you so I'm not going to start flaming like some do.

07/04/08, 08:54 PM	#4
~~tazztig~~ Banned Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Sleepless NewYork NYC Age: 16 Posts: 1,249 Rep Power: 0	Re: Namine and Roxas - created at the same time?! Well, Namine was born the same time as roxas but they didn't yet know of roxas until xemnas found him. They brought him in the organization and thats where it leads to KH 358/2 where a 14th member joins then thats when roxas leaves org.13

07/04/08, 09:01 PM	#6
kebladewarior127 Court Mage Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Radiant Garden Age: 14 Posts: 35 Rep Power: 1	Re: Namine and Roxas - created at the same time?! I have to disagree with that, because Kairi lost her heart way before Sora stabbed himself with Riku/Ansem's keyblade, and her body was inactive from the time Destiny Islands disappeared. Does anyone know why Roxas ended up in Twilight Town after he was created?

07/04/08, 09:02 PM	#7
TrueRoxas527 Organization Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: twilight town Age: 13 Posts: 432 Rep Power: 1	Re: Namine and Roxas - created at the same time?! Namine might have been created when her heart was taken out of her body, (which was on Destiny Islands) That might have given them about 10 hours before Roxas was created.... Ok, it's not that good a theory of mine. In fact, it sucks.

07/04/08, 09:07 PM	#8
SufferingAngel Ren's Owner <3 Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: The Farthest Reaches of your Memory Age: 22 Posts: 3,697 Rep Power: 5	Re: Namine and Roxas - created at the same time?! Speaking as far as the Secret Ansem Reports go - Namine was created when Sora removed his and Kairi's Hearts from his Body. Namine couldn't have been created when Kairi lost her Heart on DI - because the Body and Soul, needed to make the Nobody - Were Kairi herself!!! However, I'm bringing other points as to question the general point. It was said in the Secret Ansem Reports When Namine was created - this thread is why it's contradictory.

07/04/08, 09:36 PM	#9
HadesDragon Apathy Join Date: May 2007 Location: Plotting. Posts: 5,941 Rep Power: 10	Re: Namine and Roxas - created at the same time?! Naminé and the memory experiments the Organization conducted using her powers, while a very important part of Castle Oblivion, isn't the only thing about it, or possibly not even the main one. See, Xigbar mentions a "true goal of Castle Oblivion". That perhaps that is where Xemnas' other "friend" is. Just throwing that out there.

07/04/08, 09:45 PM	#11
~~R.o.x.a.s~~ Banned Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Somewhere Age: 17 Posts: 40 Rep Power: 0	Re: Namine and Roxas - created at the same time?! Agreed with tazztig, because Namine can alter ppl memories that are connected with sora. They only reason why vexen knew about roxas is because they found out that sora became a heartless.

07/04/08, 09:57 PM	#15
MxUltima Organization Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Either in the endless abyss,the boulivard of broken dreams,or being dead hanging out with Ab.Linkin Posts: 465 Rep Power: 1	Re: Namine and Roxas - created at the same time?! yeah they were born around the same time and they did have Namine because if i remember right Marluxia said "When this castle was entrusted to me I got posesion of it,the girl (meaning namine),and all within it" or something like that

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