The Discovery of the New World

[Charlie]

I bet you some of the canadians would've come down on some sympathetic rescue mission and it would've been a completely different war to start off with.

[killer kung fu wolf bitch]

If anything, the Americas would look like sub-Saharan Africa in terms of poverty, etc.

At least one good thing resulted out of the conquest of the Americas, the creation of a group of diverse people mixed between Native American, European, Asian, African, etc....ie the Latin Americans

[Thor.]

Originally Posted by Vodka

I bet you some of the canadians would've come down on some sympathetic rescue mission and it would've been a completely different war to start off with.

At the time Canada was mostly France so. . .eh.

[killer kung fu wolf bitch]

Originally Posted by Thor.

At the time Canada was mostly France so. . .eh.

Thank god that the Seven Year's War happened then, we saved Canada from becoming another France and made it a culturally confused child born of two nations instead.

[XxXAnimexXx]

Originally Posted by Ziz

It is estimated nowadays by most Western scholars that the overall native population of the Americas was estimated to be around a hundred million compared to the seventy million that inhabited Europe during the time. What is your opinion concerning the near-elimination of the Native Americans by disease and war spread by the Europeans? Was it justified considering that the currently most powerful and richest nation on Earth had been founded?

Morals were no that big back then and we fixed it we really dont go on mass murdering spree's anymore Europe has been having that problem Hitler as long as it dont happen again and we lear by are mistakes as the quote goes were fine

[killer kung fu wolf bitch]

Originally Posted by XxXAnimexXx

Morals were no that big back then and we fixed it we really dont go on mass murdering spree's anymore Europe has been having that problem Hitler as long as it dont happen again and we lear by are mistakes as the quote goes were fine

Tell that to the Native Americans, perhaps there could had been some lenient treatment on the part of the Europeans when dealing with the natives.

[XxXAnimexXx]

Originally Posted by Ziz

Tell that to the Native Americans, perhaps there could had been some lenient treatment on the part of the Europeans when dealing with the natives.

It sure was sad but im not throwing a pity party for things that cant be fixed it was sad and very very wrong but can it be changed? no does it help to whine? no the only thing complaning about it does is show how moral and well adjusted everyone is and if you need that from other people how sad

[killer kung fu wolf bitch]

Originally Posted by XxXAnimexXx

It sure was sad but im not throwing a pity party for things that cant be fixed it was sad and very very wrong but can it be changed? no does it help to whine? no the only thing complaning about it does is show how moral and well adjusted everyone is and if you need that from other people how sad

I am not complaining, I'm just asking whether all that cruelty was worth it.

[XxXAnimexXx]

Originally Posted by Ziz

I am not complaining, I'm just asking whether all that cruelty was worth it.

Your right i went off topic there was ith worth it in logic yes it made sense to do it because so many great things has come from it but in emotion i think we failed a little as human beings

[killer kung fu wolf bitch]

Originally Posted by XxXAnimexXx

Your right i went off topic there was ith worth it in logic yes it made sense to do it because so many great things has come from it but in emotion i think we failed a little as human beings

Plus its noteworthy that we didn't steamroll the Native Americans, it was a difficult process that began at 1492 and ended in the late 1800s. Many native tribes did try to form semi-Westernized nations and confederacies such as the Iroquois of New York or the Comanche Empire in the Southwest.

[Aucune Raison]

Colonists had a sense of white entitlement, so the Native American nations were never considered legitimate.

Also, no, the Western Hemisphere has not given up its murderous tendencies.

[Thor.]

Originally Posted by Ziz

Plus its noteworthy that we didn't steamroll the Native Americans, it was a difficult process that began at 1492 and ended in the late 1800s. Many native tribes did try to form semi-Westernized nations and confederacies such as the Iroquois of New York or the Comanche Empire in the Southwest.

Ziz brought up an excellent point about the American Indians. Even when they became "civilized" we still justified stealing their land by saying that they were "savages."

[killer kung fu wolf bitch]

Originally Posted by Thor.

Ziz brought up an excellent point about the American Indians. Even when they became "civilized" we still justified stealing their land by saying that they were "savages."

The Five 'Civilized Tribes' of Georgia are a good example of heavily Europeanized Native Americans that pretty much forsaken much of their culture to be as white as possible to keep their lands to be thrown out in the end.

This is where this gets interesting.

Let's say that the Norse maintain a permanent presence in Newfoundland and Labrador establishing a semi-pagan/Christian Viking state in North America in the 1000s. The butterflies would be large and with an early European presence, you give the Native Americans more of a chance to adapt things such as iron or horses.

[Thor.]

Still would they have guns?

The sheer determination of the settlers at the time, willing to throw everyone they had at the problem, and the fact that it was all of the settlers versus a very divided Indian nation.

[killer kung fu wolf bitch]

Originally Posted by Thor.

Still would they have guns?

The sheer determination of the settlers at the time, willing to throw everyone they had at the problem, and the fact that it was all of the settlers versus a very divided Indian nation.

This is discussing whether the Norse having a permanent beachhead in North America would prove to be the salvation of the Native Americans in the end.

Remember, the Norse were expanding in all directions establishing subgroups such as the Normans of France, the Varangians of Russsia and the Hiberno-Norse in Ireland, etc. The Norse people will not be migrating to North America wave after wave with thousands of people per wave of colonization like the Europeans of OTL. This would give the Native Americans hundreds of years of extra time to adapt to the settlers and advance.