Antidepressants

[Machu Picchu]

I was browsing through old threads and I came across one in Help and Support about the use of antidepressants. One quote that I thought was interesting, and wanted to discuss, was something like "Antidepressants treat the symptoms not the cause." While I have multiple reasons why I support the use of antidepressants, I'm going to just expand on this quote and temporarily ignore that I believe antidepressants do in fact treat the cause. Since the swine flu has been in the media recently, I'm going to use that and antiviral medications as my example.

Antiviral drugs are a class of medication used specifically for treating viral infections.[1] Like antibiotics for bacteria, specific antivirals are used for specific viruses. Unlike antibiotics, however, antiviral drugs do not destroy the virus, they only inhibit their development.

(taken from wikipedia)

Antiviral drugs only treat the symptoms, not the cause. In this case, however, treating the symptoms allows for the person's body to feel better enough to fight the virus itself. Fever is reduced, muscle pain, coughing, mucus- all suppressed. This not only helps the person feel better, but it arms the body with the tools it needs to fight the infection itself. A person can still recover without the drugs, but it takes longer, they feel a hell of a lot more sick while they are recovering, and it creates a greater risk for more serious complications, like pneumonia.

For the sake of the argument, antidepressants, like antivirals, help treat the cause by treating the symptoms. I know we'd all like to believe that we can spring back to life when faced with depression. But clinical depression is diagnosed based on persistent feelings of sadness, as well as a ton of other symptoms. Kudos to those who can, but once most of us fall into a serious, clinical depression, we can not simply pull ourselves up- the future certainly does not seem so bright. It's like a spiraling, self-fulfilling privacy. You become depressed, you quit your job, lose contact with friend, etc. All of this adds up and makes you even more depressed.

This is where antidepressants come in. Whether or not they actually make you happy, they make you feel that way. (And it may take some time adjusting the dosage to find one that works for a specific person. When I was younger, I had to switch strep throat medications numerous times. It's no different). Feeling happy is the first step to recovery, it gives you the hope and optimism you need so you can want to recover and fight/find the cause. Antidepressants are not simply given to a patient and then that patient is forgotten. The drugs are given, usually by a psychiatrist, in correlation with therapy, usually with a psychologist. The antidepressants help a person open up, feel more confident, and allow for the cause to be fixed. They help pull the person out of the serious slump they were in that got them on the medication in the first place. They eliminate the sadness, even if its just temporarily, which gives them the strength and the ability to undercover the underlying cause, while allowing them to cope better with the real world.

Sorry for the long post.

[Pelafina]

The main issue that I find with antidepressants is that people, instead of using them as a temporary crutch to get back to some stability, use them as a permanent solution. They should be used for a set length of time, until the person can maintain themselves without help. When they're used as a long-term solution, people often rely on the medication to 'cure' them, and do nothing to actually solve their problems.

And on top of that, my experiences with family members using them has been overwhelmingly bad- the plethora of negative effects from their use really seems to outweigh any benefit that anyone was taking from them. My mother has been on heavy doses of several medications for years, and I haven't seen any progress come of it.

So then, going back to your original point, I agree that antidepressants can be a catalyst for treating the cause, but actually do very little directly.

[Aucune Raison]

The topic is treating anti-depressants too generally. There are different kinds, some artifical which treat the symptoms and affect the chemicals of the body, and some more natural-based that provide extra nutrition and easily fit the body's metabolism. Both can have dependencies. Artifical is effective at a much faster rate, but can negatively affect the body (brain included) and cause a much more severe dependency.

It is false that by eliminating symptoms, you always help the body's defenses. Often the opposite is true, symptoms like mucus and coughing and fever ARE its defenses, and by destroying those you weaken the immune system. Antibiotics also kill it, because the body USES biotics to fight diseases. I know very little about medicine and anatomy, but this is basic knowledge.

Anti-depressants (the type you seem to be referring to), may make you FEEL better, but they don't attack the root of the problem. And once you are happy, you don't bother with what made you depressed in the first place.

[Machu Picchu]

Originally Posted by Pelafina

The main issue that I find with antidepressants is that people, instead of using them as a temporary crutch to get back to some stability, use them as a permanent solution. They should be used for a set length of time, until the person can maintain themselves without help. When they're used as a long-term solution, people often rely on the medication to 'cure' them, and do nothing to actually solve their problems.

And on top of that, my experiences with family members using them has been overwhelmingly bad- the plethora of negative effects from their use really seems to outweigh any benefit that anyone was taking from them. My mother has been on heavy doses of several medications for years, and I haven't seen any progress come of it.

So then, going back to your original point, I agree that antidepressants can be a catalyst for treating the cause, but actually do very little directly.

I feel some people may never be happy without antidepressants. But I don't necessarily see this as a bad thing. I know people who are okay with being on antidepressants, and being in therapy, their whole lives because the alternative isn't worth it. I firmly believe that there are people who can't be happy without medication. There are people who simply do not, and will never, have a strong enough will to make themselves be happy. Maybe this makes them a weak person. But I would rather be mentally stable on drugs than be sucked back into the blackhole of depression. I want to be able to care about my spouse/future kids/and my puppies. I have personal experience with antidepressants also. I have seen antidepressants turn my grandmother into a suicidal alcoholic, but I've also seen them help my aunt out of a cocaine addiction, and to help myself feel like a human again.

Like I briefly mentioned earlier, prescribing antidepressants is a trial and error process. Different drugs do different things. Negative side effects usually stem from prescribing the wrong type of drugs. And while this trial and error process certainly isn't as effective as it should be, research is being done to make it more effective (which I'm going to help contribute to soon, fingers crossed for grad school). "Depression" and "anxiety" sort of cover a wide range of things, like excessiveness/lack of dopamine, serotonine, and norepinephrine. I don't know if you know what different antidepressants do, but an example would be a "Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitor" like Prozac. Neurotrasmitters, like serotonin, are fired from the terminal buttons into a synaptic gap, where the dendrites of another neuron pick them up. However, some neutransmitters will never make it to another neuron, as the terminal buttons will reclaim, or reuptake, certain neurotransmitters while they are in the synaptic gap. One cause of depression is too much reuptake of serotonin, so SSRI's help regulate this, therefore solving the problem and essentially "curing" the depression. However, if a person has, say, an excessive amount of dopamine (eg, schizophrenia) SSRI's will serve to make the symptoms worse.

So, ultimately, I think antidepressants are very helpful but should be given under extreme moderation and only in extreme cases.

[edit] To the person above me, see second paragraph about how antidepressants actually work. :P And antidepressants are safe enough to be used during pregnancy, and in some cases, are actually recommended during pregnancy. That's safer than advil.

[Katsuno_Hitomi]

I take antidepressants and anitpsychotics, so I know exactly what y'all are talking about. However, I see these medications as a wheelchair, rather than a crutch. For some people, you just can't manage yourself without some outside help. It's not like an tumor that can just be removed. The causes are far more complex and subtle.

This does not mean I like my meds. They cause my hair to fall out and clog the bathtub drain, they make me dizzy if I stand up to fast, not to mention it's hard to stay at an ideal weight. I'd give my eye teeth to be able to function without them. Heck, I'd give up all my teeth. But for right now, this is the only way I can function.

[Thor.]

I've been on about seven different medications. None of them have helped. I've stopped taking them.

[Aucune Raison]

To the person above me, see second paragraph about how antidepressants actually work. :P And antidepressants are safe enough to be used during pregnancy, and in some cases, are actually recommended during pregnancy. That's safer than advil.

I know all too well how they work. And I highly doubt that, unless science has made tremendous strides in the last few years.

And you still refer to it too generally. You're talking strictly about artifical meds that address chemical deficiencies. Essentially like diabetics with insulin (I know it's not that simple), and that's okay with me (though I'd prefer something less dependable), but a lot of people aren't necessarily suffering from something chemical. What would you say about those who have mental depression?

[Carbunkel]

Originally Posted by Katsuno_Hitomi

I take antidepressants and anitpsychotics, so I know exactly what y'all are talking about. However, I see these medications as a wheelchair, rather than a crutch. For some people, you just can't manage yourself without some outside help. It's not like an tumor that can just be removed. The causes are far more complex and subtle.

This does not mean I like my meds. They cause my hair to fall out and clog the bathtub drain, they make me dizzy if I stand up to fast, not to mention it's hard to stay at an ideal weight. I'd give my eye teeth to be able to function without them. Heck, I'd give up all my teeth. But for right now, this is the only way I can function.

Yeah, same stuff happens to me.


When you said that they were only a temporary solution, yes there are, but I've found that psychiatrists ( or the ones I've been to) insist you keep taking them for a long period of time. Is this some marketing thing? Just keep filling the prescriptions to get money or something? Maybe I',m just paranoid but I don't trust any kind of medicine doctors prescribe.

Yeah, but once you take them long enough, it's like an addiction you don't want. I hate taking it, I never wanted it, but if I stop I feel like a piece of shit. Not mentally, that is, I feel happy but people tell me I'm depressing. Just physically because I feel like my body is kind of melting, sort of.


I kind of went cold turkey about 4 weeks ago and I find myself more content with myself, but my state of being is all over the place. I have problems putting sentences together or performing menial tasks but I guess this is just withdrawal, right?

There are people who simply do not, and will never, have a strong enough will to make themselves be happy. Maybe this makes them a weak person. But I would rather be mentally stable on drugs than be sucked back into the blackhole of depression.

There is something I do not understand. People that are never happy? I've met those sort of people,t he kind that no matter what you say or what happens to them they seem forever melancholy. Are they really? Or do we just think they seem that way.
I only ask this because this is the reason I'm take( forced to, fuck it) medication. Everyone thinks I'm sad, but I feel happy with my life.

I like me, a lot. :C

[Machu Picchu]

Originally Posted by Aucune Raison

I know all too well how they work. And I highly doubt that, unless science has made tremendous strides in the last few years.

And you still refer to it too generally. You're talking strictly about artifical meds that address chemical deficiencies. Essentially like diabetics with insulin (I know it's not that simple), and that's okay with me, but a lot of people aren't necessarily suffering from something chemical. What would you say about those who have mental depression?

Well, you'd be wrong. I can tell you with 100% certainty that, yes, doctors will recommend antidepressants during pregnancy, especially for a women diagnosed with postpartum depression. If she goes untreated during pregnancy she risks facing even more serious disorders such as schizophrenia and will be a direct harm to herself and newborn child.

I did not intend to be general. I am only referring to Major Depressive Disorder, which I should have specified, I guess. I thought it was assumed. You can research the disorder yourself if you'd like more information, but essentially it is a consistent feeling of depression (meaning longer than 6 months) that results from numerous factors, and in most cases a single environmental event cannot be traced. I do not simply mean depression as a mood resulting directly and solely from a single event. There is proven evidence that Major Depressive Disorder is directly linked to biological factors.

For example, a prospective, longitudinal study uncovered a moderating effect of the serotonin transporter (5-HTT) gene on stressful life events in predicting depression. Specifically, depression may follow such events, but is more likely to appear in people with one or two short alleles of the 5-HTT gene.[10]

From wiki.

MRI scans of patients with depression have reported a number of differences in brain structure compared to those without the illness. Although there is some inconsistency in the results, meta-analyses have shown there is strong evidence for smaller hippocampal[22] volumes and increased numbers of hyperintensive lesions.[23]

Also from Wiki.

So my point: if there's no biological abnormalities, there's no MDD. Psychological factors usually catalyze the disorder but people can have MDD without facing traumatizing events.

A good example would be Post Trauamtic Stress Disorder. Two people can be exposed to the same event, but one may not be biologically susceptible to PTSD, and therefore will not develope the mental disorder, whereas the other person will. Again, this has been proven in numerous studies and if you don't want to take my word for it the wiki page might convince you.

[edit]

There is something I do not understand. People that are never happy? I've met those sort of people,t he kind that no matter what you say or what happens to them they seem forever melancholy. Are they really? Or do we just think they seem that way.
I only ask this because this is the reason I'm take( forced to, fuck it) medication. Everyone thinks I'm sad, but I feel happy with my life.

I meant reports from people themselves documenting that they do not feel happy, not just how others perceive them. And that's where more controversy comes with antidepressants. Some people, like artists, feel it takes away creativity, or that it takes away from personality. It all depends on the person, really. I feel more like myself now than I have in the past few years. And the more resistant you are to medication the less effective they become. Sort of like a reverse placebo effect.

And if you're over 18, and aren't considered an immediate threat to yourself or the people around you, no one can force you to take the medications.

[Aucune Raison]

So my point: if there's no biological abnormalities, there's no MDD. Psychological factors usually catalyze the disorder but people can have MDD without facing traumatizing events.

I see. So you wouldn't treat those who suffered from purely psychological depression? That makes sense.