Communism and Socialism

[Dantés de Divinity]

What are your thoughts on Lady Liberty's worst enemy?

Are you for the common worker?

Or are you against the sickle and hammer?

[Azrael]

I am a Socialist Democrat and I support socialism to a degree since this country has adopted some measures of it.

[Dogenzaka]

My opinion?
Screw it.

You get what you deserve by working for it.
And I believe socialism, and even communism, destroys that law.

[Azrael]

Originally Posted by Dogenzaka

My opinion?
Screw it.

You get what you deserve by working for it.
And I believe socialism, and even communism, destroys that law.

You do know that the USA is socialist to a small degree, right?

[Charlie]

I've personally seen that a lot of people against those two are over stimulated by the benefits of capitalism to risk giving it up for something more 'equal' without a temper tantrum.

It applies to me to some cases.
I think that socialism's more of a middle ground, and would work better in some countries.
You just have a main issue that some people are too inbred in a social system to where they'll shut down any alternatives.

I respect all of them.
Capitalism always experiences pitfalls and high points, but needs to be able to predict the country's need for more of supply or demand. Socialism's good if people will be willing to have some of the quality of their services cut to benefit more people, and same applies to communism except you're pretty much in the same economic setting for the rest of your life because 'excess' of things betrays it, and transforms into capitalism.

[Gatorade]

In Communism, nothing will get done. People have no incentive to work harder in their jobs because no matter what they do, they will not get rewarded for it. It's a lose-lose situation. Or at least this is what I am taught in my public education

[Charlie]

I think that's a shitty way of looking at it, actually.
People would automatically be given jobs through communism.

In capitalism, its intensely competitive.
You'd have more of that analysis there, more than any.

But at the same time its like -
it won't matter, because you wouldn't have to worry about someone taking your jobs.

Like America with Irishmen way back when, and the Mexicans now.

[Bud Light]

Originally Posted by Ziz

You do know that the USA is socialist to a small degree, right?

It's about to change to a major degree. Due to the declining economy, Obama might be forced to make decisions that are leaning more towards socialism.


On a side note, it's interesting to note that all of you seem to recognize communism with the idea that amount of labor does not determine pay. While this is a principle of communism, this is not communism as a whole. Communism is better defined as everybody being able to contribute their opinion to the ultimate decision. There is also the goal for elimination of private ownership, which is what capitalism focuses primarily on. All in all, it focuses on a more democratic goal than anything.

In reality, the USA can itself be viewed as communist, at least to some extent. Open roads, free schooling, etc. etc. In reality, the idea of a communist setup has been twisted and distorted that it no longer represents what we originally made it out to be, which is evident by some member's posts in this thread. Communism is not an enemy to Democracy. Communism is the goal to make sure everybody can make means. It follows the "no man left behind" goal, which is a cause that is worth supporting, at least to some extent.

On a final say, for all of you who think that the USA is a Democracy, you are sadly mistaken. There can never and will never be a democracy. The United States is a Republic. We the people may have a say in the government, but we have a leader. The President of the United States is not a dictator though, so the United States is best classified as a Republic. If you ever find a country that truly follows the definition of a Democracy, pinch yourself because you're probably dreaming. Even the Founding Fathers criticized a Democracy system.

Incoming Walls of Text, Slippy.

[Aucune Raison]

well, spiff already covered it. there has been no true communist or socialist nation as of yet, though we have embraced many of the ideas, which a lot of people for some reason don't realize.

"lol socialism spread the wealth omg stop obama." can't believe that people still fall for that conservative bullshit.

[Dogenzaka]

You do know that the USA is socialist to a small degree, right?

Yes.

It's about to change to a major degree. Due to the declining economy, Obama might be forced to make decisions that are leaning more towards socialism.

Yes.

And whatever the idea of communism is, it looks good on paper to many, but it never works out.
You end up with a poor country with a lot of hatred and jealousy, and a whooole lot of research spending on nuclear weapons.

"lol socialism spread the wealth omg stop obama." can't believe that people still fall for that conservative bullshit.

Well aren't some of his plans somewhat socialist in nature?
Hopefully the healthcare system doesn't end up like in Britain.

All the good doctors left the country. There wasn't a good enough difference in pay, and people get on waiting lists for various conditions to see a doctor, and you're told who to see. Or at least that's what my stepdad, who is British and goes to Britain like 5x a year, says.

It follows the "no man left behind" goal, which is a cause that is worth supporting, at least to some extent.

I don't necessarily agree with that. I realize you said to some extent..but...
There's always a way to survive, and for the people who don't WANT to work, or go to school, it's really unfair.
Of course there are those who really need it, but we have public school, you know?

Everyone has a shot at education.
If you don't try your hardest and appreciate that this country has education that many don't, then you'll end up with nothing, and it's no one's responsibility to piggy-back your expenses.

And it's why the people who make F's in school and take it like a joke and no big deal absolutely sicken me, because I've been around and I've seen what it's like for people who have lived in communist, socialist, or just downright bad places with lots of war or poverty, to wish they could just have one book to learn with, hell if they could even read, and the people in America sometimes take it for granted a lot. Seeing people think about school like it's some kind of joke really irritate me, and then they live off minimum wage jobs and ask why their life sucks and they have to live life worrying about the rent everyday.

Education is important and I really think more people need to understand that.
While college is kind of tough to get in right now, I mean grades are something YOU decide, but the money is an issue.
There are student loans, scholarships, grants, etc., and sometimes you don't always get approved, but eventually, there is ALWAYS a way to get educated in this country.

So to me, it's like there's no excuse sometimes for the whole "no man left behind", because if people just had a passion to learn, a thirst for working for what's theirs, and the humility to accept the life they live, rather than thinking they need less or more, I think...

I dunno.
I'm rambling now.

Um wtf.
lol bye.

[Aucune Raison]

i agree about education and british healthcare.

what i meant about that comment is during the election, obama's tax plan stated that at 250k, individuals higher than that would see a tax increase. in that aspect it reverts it the clinton terms. then republicans raised a fuss, calling it socialist even though bush's taxcuts were to blame for our deficit. anyways, i get angry when something in politics is called socialist and therefore antiamerican. democrats are being pussies partly because of this.

[Dogenzaka]

I'm not sure what the number was, but I heard him go from saying 500k+ to 100k+ tax increases (This was on the Sean Hannedy show as I carpooled with my stepdad...he loves listening to it -_-. However, Hannedy actually played voice clips of Obama and Biden actually saying these things, so it's not like he could spin what they said.) They kept changing their statement as to what the number was going to be.

Uhh, regardless, yeah. I agree.

[Azrael]

If anything, socialism seems work over in Europe where it is not as extreme as Communism like in the Soviet Union but maintaining a sort of democratic system.

[Hollow Bastion]

Actual communism has yet to ever actually exist. The states that have claimed it thus far have claimed it by name only, not policy. True communism eliminates the state and is essentially anarcho-syndicalism (or anarcho-communism). Realistically speaking, that cannot occur.

Socialism to some degree has existed in our country already. And the term "socialism" itself is incredibly broad. National Socialism and Democratic Socialism are practically opposites.

You get what you deserve by working for it.
And I believe socialism, and even communism, destroys that law.

To each according to his/her need, from each according to his/her ability.

Well aren't some of his plans somewhat socialist in nature?
Hopefully the healthcare system doesn't end up like in Britain.

Whenever the government steps into taking some control of the economy, it is somewhat socialist. You could look at many of our presidents in the past 100 years and claim many of them employed socialist agendas. You must realize that pure capitalism is doomed to failure, as is pure socialism. A mix of the two is what one should strive for, and the balance needed depends on the situation.

[New2Ya]

Whenever the government steps into taking some control of the economy, it is somewhat socialist. You could look at many of our presidents in the past 100 years and claim many of them employed socialist agendas. You must realize that pure capitalism is doomed to failure, as is pure socialism. A mix of the two is what one should strive for, and the balance needed depends on the situation.

Very true. This whole financial crisis we're in is mainly because there was an imbalance in America. It was leaning too much towards capitalism.

Anyways, capitalism is not sacred either.

Look at the banks. I don't know WHO in the WORLD started the idea that the big bosses should get bonusses, but we can see now what the result is. Banks still want to give their 'leaders' bonuses in the millions, even though every country is in a major crisis. RESPONSIBILITY?!!!!

I ****ing hate them. Yeah they REALLY piss me off. I'm not poor at all, but knowing that they're using the money, OUR MONEY, money that the government is giving to the banks BECAUSE THEY'RE ABOUT TO GO BANKRUPT, for their own income and give each other bonusses, that's the LIMIT of selfishness.

All those banks should be punished. Seriously they need to be trialled. I'm not overreacting at all, because you have to understand, we're in a financial crisis, the banks are falling down, the government pumps money into those banks to stay alive, using our money, and then they spend holidays, cars and villa's on it, because they think they deserve it? (they're not doing crap at all, which makes it even more absurd)

In that case, I would rather have communism than capitalism. However, a balance between socialism and capitalism would be best at this point.