California to vote on abolishing death penalty

[Johnny Stooge]

Not nearly enough of them. And call me paranoid, but the last thing I want to see happen is a privatized, corporate-own and sponsored prison business sector a la Deadman Wonderland.

Wait what? Wouldn't you prefer prisons to be run in a not-for-profit fashion, similar to charities?

And suddenly I'm discussing prison politics with an Australian.
(Joking. Mostly joking.)

Life imprisonment has worked out for us.

[Aldrain]

BBC News - California to vote on abolishing death penalty

I'm not a californian, but as an individual I support the idea.

It is completely factual that keeping the death penalty is noticeably more expensive than keeping someone in life imprisonment. Besides that, there have been a number of studies that show that it is a rather inefficient way of preventing crime and that crime rates may even go up after a widely publicized execution. Based on that alone I see little point in keeping it.

There are moral considerations here as well, obviously. imo i don't see much point in killing someone for anything because all it does is satisfy vindictive urges, the only time where it would ever be remotely justifiable is when the person in question has serious mental issues that prevent them from being able to care or learn from their misdeeds and they are proven to be completely incapable of ever contributing anything positive to society ever again (which is a tall order). It negates what should be the whole point of the justice system, which is to rehabilitate people, it can't even be considered a punishment in the sense that they won't be able to learn or apply anything to their lives afterwards because they'll be dead. Is some feeling of vindictive satisfaction worth someone's life?

Thoughts?

I am neither for nor against the death penalty, but I feel it hasn't done much. I think that to a degree, it was used for a sort of fear factor. Nobody wants to die. At least they shouldn't. Regardless, it is expensive, and I feel life in prison is much more effective. Unfortunately all of these decisions take so long to happen. I realize this sentence is a bit off topic but: if they abolish slavery, or if the US as a whole did, would it be appropriate to re open alcatraz to create more prison space? CA has a huge criminal population, and their prisons are too packed.

and along with all of the other things that have been said: life imprisonment isn't cruel if it is warranted. Criminals are forfeiting their right to a free life. You break the law you get punished. I think killing somebody is pretty damn close to forfeiting the right to life- therefore, life in prison.

[Shawty]

I'm not Californian, neither do they give death sentences in my country, which I think is a good thing. When someone has commited a murder or so, he/she should suffer for the rest of their lifes for what they've done in my opinion.

[OmniChaos]

Been watching too many action flicks lately? Assuming you're not joking, it is rarity that prison breaks do occur (of which the percentage of the prison population that does usually floats between 0-2% depending on the year cataloged), and it's hardly ever from high-security facilities where murderers are being held.

No, just been watching the news. Four inmates broke out of a Kansas county jail a few days ago (they were there due to overcrowding in the prison they were in), and about a week or two ago, a woman broke out of my city's county jail. They were all captured shortly after, of course, but the point is they escaped all the same.

Of course, I am speaking of jails and not prisons, but with overcrowding as it is (plus the process of transferring people from county jails to state prisons), not all murderers are in prisons right now.

I am neither for nor against the death penalty, but I feel it hasn't done much. I think that to a degree, it was used for a sort of fear factor. Nobody wants to die. At least they shouldn't.

The "fear factor" has slowly been watered down over the years, where we now give people a "comfortable, humane" death, instead of deaths that promises pain beforehand. Deaths such as the electric chair and hanging, where the people are made to suffer before death, are more effective in instilling fear than deaths that promise to be painless, such as leathal injection.

[Alaude Drenxta]

I think it should be rarely used, but when it is, it should be swift and clean. No drawn out crap, far less money drained into someone we're simply going to kill.

[Aldrain]

I think it should be rarely used, but when it is, it should be swift and clean. No drawn out crap, far less money drained into someone we're simply going to kill.

Why don't we just do something less humane though? that would cost less money. Heres some rope. You know what I mean.? I am not saying that we should do that but it would cost so much less

[King Sora X]

While I am against the idea that California is looking to get rid of the Death Penalty, Celtis couldn't have said it better. California hasn't even used it in a long time, so not like we're losing anything major. Vote for it and be done with it, I say.

[Haeralis]

The people on death row already made their choice. They chose not to be a member of society, and because of this I do not support the abolishing of the death penalty.

[Master Spockanort]

The people on death row already made their choice. They chose not to be a member of society, and because of this I do not support the abolishing of the death penalty.

They aren't going to kill them. They will all sit there and die before they ever get put down.

Since it's not being used, why have it?

[Silverslide]

Good. Putting down another human for the death of another only increases the kill count. Does nothing. Just let them rot in prison and wallow in self pity, they are as good as dead that way.

[Ulti]

The people on death row already made their choice. They chose not to be a member of society, and because of this I do not support the abolishing of the death penalty.

Must suck to be one of those innocents who were deemed guilty by the jury. Getting killed for no god damn reason.

[Orion]

The people on death row already made their choice. They chose not to be a member of society, and because of this I do not support the abolishing of the death penalty.

Because the legal system and the faculties that back up its rulings (the police, related sciences) are not infallible, having the death penalty means that an innocent person can be murdered by the state. So long as that is possible, the legal system fundamentally fails.
Either remove the death penalty (which is already ultra-expensive) or install surveillance so intrusive and widespread that privacy doesn't exist anymore, so we can always be certain exactly who did what in relation to a crime (and all the other scary possibilities it opens up). I wonder which of those I prefer so that the USA doesn't have a broken legal system.

[OmniChaos]

Must suck to be one of those innocents who were deemed guilty by the jury. Getting killed for no god damn reason.

Because the legal system and the faculties that back up its rulings (the police, related sciences) are not infallible, having the death penalty means that an innocent person can be murdered by the state. So long as that is possible, the legal system fundamentally fails.

While this is true, abolishing the death penalty will do little to help it; in fact, it may make things worse.

Death penalty or no death penalty, an innocent person can still be sentenced to prison by a jury and may never taste freedom again. If sentenced to death, said innocent person would have a buffering between the sentencing and the execution, as been pointed out. And should said innocent person be put to death, the brighter side is that they would no longer be suffering in prison. On the other hand, if there is no death penalty, said innocent person may spend the rest of their days in prison.

So when you get down to it, you have to ask yourself which is worse: an innocent person being put to death or an innocent person having to suffer in prison for the rest of their life? Because if sentencing a person to life in prison is supposedly the greater punishment over the death penalty, then so too would it be the greater evil to inflict upon an innocent person.