Super Smash Bros. Brawl General Discussion

[Trunks]

^^But he is fast, so you wont get a chance to touch me

[文偉立]

I love Marth's counter attack XD. I can trap you on the verge of returning to the stage FOREVER XD. I also figured out there are a few character Marth can't lose to (if I chose play with Marth anyhoo) because Marth's moves can those specific characters' entire movelist:
1) Yoshi
2) Luigi
3) Bowser
4) Donkey Kong

My friend is uber with Roy and obviously the famed battle between Roy and Marth never ceases.

[konuk]

yay marth fans im a uber with marth as well almost like a supercomputer.........I know what your gonna do Muhahahahahah the cape tells no lies heheh

[Square Ninja]

Real men sidestep attacks.

[文偉立]

Originally Posted by Square Ninja

Real men sidestep attacks.

Real "men"? O.o. Zelda's dodges are the best, actually. Sheik however is not.

[Straw_Hat]

Originally Posted by アクラ

You think I would know something that vague?

he uses a GIANT KEY! it looks like a KEYBLADE, its SWEEET:D

lol

[wu tang goku]

You know, any big key would look like a keyblade, LOL. >_>

[wonko the sane]

my favorite is jigglypuff actually... laugh at me if you want, but if i ever find you i will break down your door and smoke you as THE SILENT WIND OF DOOOOM!!! aka jigglypuff wearing a ninja headband thingy

[Dark BHK]

my beast charectar is marth if u want to fight me come on i will bet u ALL
IM THE BEAST IN SUPER SMASH BRO MELE i got all tropys:)

[LordMune]

Hurrr, rly?

[Maelstrom]

Originally Posted by アクラ

I love Marth's counter attack XD. I can trap you on the verge of returning to the stage FOREVER XD. I also figured out there are a few character Marth can't lose to (if I chose play with Marth anyhoo) because Marth's moves can those specific characters' entire movelist:
1) Yoshi
2) Luigi
3) Bowser
4) Donkey Kong

My friend is uber with Roy and obviously the famed battle between Roy and Marth never ceases.

. . .Marth can't lose to Yoshi? Hardly.

Marth's greatest asset is his sword range, and the fact that his hits at the tip cause greater damage. It's b/c of this that approaching Marth is practically impossible; the majority of matchups against Marth involve finding ways to get inside tipper range. It's difficult to accomplish in general (most people do it by spot-dodging, crouch-cancelling, rolling, wavedashing, dash-dancing), and very often the Marth will nail you w/a tipper regardless, trapping you in f-air combos.

But you know what? Yoshi's Double Jump Cancelled (DJC'd) aerials (particularly his neutral-air) are godly against Marth simply b/c his double jump gives him crouch-cancelling properties even when he's in the air. This means that standard knockback rules don't apply when Marth's fighting a Yoshi.

Translation: Marth's tipper game gets raped b/c Yoshi can essentially cancel the knockback of Marth's tipper hits during his DJC'd aerials. This means Marth can't perform his standard f-air combos or tipper hits, which reduces a large part of Marth's advantage. At the very worst, Yoshi DJC'd aerials will trade hits w/Marth and will unfortunately accumulate damage. . .but at best, this means that Yoshi can always, at any opportunity, get close to Marth where he can then pull off any combos/hits that he wants to.

As I've said before, 3/4 of a matchup against Marth is about getting inside tipper range, and that's what makes it so hard. . .but Yoshi gets inside so easily, which makes this matchup less unbalanced. Heck, some people even think of Yoshi as a Marth counter.

And using Marth's counter as an edgeguard is. . .not that great. If people know how to sweetspot, they get back on easy, and take advantage of counter's lag. Marth's d-tilt/f-smash/f-airs off the stage work much, much better.

[文偉立]

Actually, I find Yoshi quite tedious. Figure that majority of all characters, unlike other fighting games, have simple and few moves at their disposal.

Yoshi's tongue attack is SLOW. I can absolutely, with my greatest whim in me, to use Counter which, of course, will smash Yoshi back because his tongue has short range.
As is his grab (which pulls off the same maneuver), Yoshi leans forward and flinches and is even SLOWER than his tongue. A simple Roll around and Grab finishes him off.
The Roll attack he does is the most simplistic countered move ever. Unless you are mere milimeters away from me, all I need to do is sidestep and by the time you're back for a second hit, Marth can COUNTER. (You see I have a pattern here?)
I won't mention smash attacks to the obvious reason Marth can easily COUNTER it.
Yoshi's egg Bomb is pure BS...(used it a couple of times in Sudden Death; not worth it). Oh no...I'm going to be bombarded with eggs...save me...
His Slam attack IS tricky, I'll give you that, but I've learned Yoshi is most vulnerable at that point. I never give the chance for Yoshi to get me while I'm in the air, if so, I can air dodge (good reflexes may I add?). If Yoshi wishes to plummet the ground and plan to devastate me, I can easily Smash Up (Before Yoshi's impact lands; aka "Marth pokes Yoshi's falling ass, Yoshi whimpers")
Yoshi has the stupid second jump which makes him unbelievably vulnerable to Marth. Did I mention I am a spike-lover?

Let's talk OFFENSE now, rather than the countering maneuvers. Marth is QUICK. I did mention I have that combo attack that (although "cheap"; if you consider "cheap" to be 1337), Yoshi stays aerial like crazy. You CANNOT tell me you can ever go an entire battle with Yoshi without going airborne at least once. So, may I recommend Yoshi jump when he's far from Marth before I begin the supa k0mb0?

Trust me, I've taken down plenty of Yoshi lovers before. And they're GOOD. I've lost with every character against them while they used their own varieties but once they chose Yoshi, Donkey Kong, Luigi or Bowser, all I knew was choosing Marth meant their fate was SEALED.

[Square Ninja]

Yoshi's eggs are very good for tacking on extra damage and stopping arial assaults.

[Maelstrom]

Originally Posted by アクラ

random stuff about B-moves

I'm not sure whether or not to be mildy bemused or vaguely irritated by your response. Did you even read what I posted? I said that Yoshi's DJC'd aerials (especially his DJC'd n-air) is godly against Marth because it negates the tipper/spacing game that he's forced to use, and brings Yoshi inside tipper range very easily, which is something that no other character can accomplish, thus weakening Marth's offensive options.

. . .and the entirety of your response was some irrelevant rant about how Yoshi's B-moves are completely ineffective against Marth. Excellent reading comprehension there, good fellow.

Although to be fair, your assessment that Yoshi's B-moves suck is rather true. . .THAT'S WHY NO DECENT YOSHI PLAYER EVER USES THE B-MOVES. Down-b and side-b are used primarily for recovery; you'll seldom see them used in actual combat due to their ending lag. In addition, no one ever uses Yoshi's standing grab. . .neutral B or dash-grabbing is faster, but Yoshi's seldom grab, also because of the lag issues involved. Yoshi's up-b, however, is godly--but you didn't argue that it sucked, so we'll leave that out for now.

However, the entirety of your argument was pointless since no decent Yoshi player will use the aforementioned moves to attack anyways. Except the up-b. Good Yoshi players use d-tilts, d-smashes, shffl'd aerials, DJC'd n-airs/u-airs, NOT B-moves.

. . .your belief that Marth's counter will rape is also highly erroneous. Competitive, tourney level Marths don't use counter for the simple reason that the risk involved is far too high. Think about it: in order for counter to be effective against players (who don't use stupid, laggy moves like B-moves), they'll have to anticipate when the opponent will attack them. This boils down to a guessing game--will the opponent attack or not attack? And if the person is smart enough, they won't rush at you like a bull drunk on beer, they'll mix up their approach, stagger their attacks, and try to be as unpredictable as possible. . .and if you happen to anticipate incorrectly when the opponent will attack, you get screwed, b/c counter's lag means a free attack for the opponent.

Do yourself a favor and download vids of a Marth player called "Ken," who is very probably the best Marth player in the world, and beat Japan's best. He rarely uses counter. And the times that he does, he gets punished for it just as often as he lands a successful counter.

. . .and a person's fate being sealed if they choose Yoshi or Luigi? Meh. If you actually shffl'd, wavedashed, tech-chased, and sweetspotted (which I highly doubt) then I might believe you. If you're so confident, then how about I challenge you to a 20$ money match, my Luigi against your Marth, 2/3 matches, no items, 4-stock. Once you beat me (and a particular friend of mine I'll bring along who's called WarriorKnight who plays Yoshi), feel free to spout claims of your glorified supremacy.

Edit: I just noticed that you live in Brooklyn. I happen to live in Queens, so it should only be an hour commute at most. The money match should be an easy 20$ for you, since you've sealed everyone's fate who chooses Yoshi, Luigi, Bowser, and DK, yes?

[Square Ninja]

To be honest, "professional" Smashing looks more like breaking the game than playing it.