Super Sentai Madness... Superficial Madness.

[Draco Meteora]

Originally Posted by UrbanQuattrus

Who will we face in KH3, the Beetleborgs?

F*CK YEAH BEETLEBORGS!

maybe The Mystic Knights of Ternanog?

[Ikkin]

Originally Posted by UrbanQuattrus

Is anyone else getting tired of the fact that Square Enix is jumping on the long-standing Japanese bandwagon of thinking that a Sentai team of largely one-dimensional foes who only differentiate from each other superficially is an excusable pass for well-rounded villains?

I think the real problem with the Organization is that S-E got a bit overzealous with the member numbers and hence none of the members had enough screentime to show a unique characterization. Heck, I don't even think a majority of the KHII members have enough lines to be one-dimensional.

Considering the fact that characters like Demyx have large fanbases with at least a similar idea of how they're supposed to be, though, I imagine there's got to be something there. ;) And I do think 358/2 Days will bring that out. (Well, at least for some of the members; there's the issue of time to worry about again)

Xemnas, Roxas, Axel, and Marluxia are the only ones with a halfway decent amount of design... and even Axel was a disappointment, given that the reason for his entire course of behavior goes against the notion that he's not supposed to have a heart to begin with.

Well, to be fair to Axel, I don't think we can really assume that his behavior does go against his not having a heart. If you assume that hearts = emotions, maybe you could say that his feeling anything would go against it. But if hearts = empathy/connections between people instead, there'd be room for Axel wanting Roxas around for selfish reasons (giving him a feeling similar to the one he would have if he had a heart) which wouldn't go against his being a Nobody.

He also suffers from the lack of time issue, too, I think, considering that we never really learn his true motivation for kidnapping Kairi or sacrificing himself.

Originally Posted by UrbanQuattrus

Well, it's difficult to feel for a troupe of clowns whose entire scheme is to sic heartless on Sora and then get themselves out of the way, only for them to throw themselves at Sora one by one in the final dungeon because we just absolutely MUST have them all die and make for cool-looking but irrelevant boss fights before the game ends, nevermind the fact that fighting Sora directly is completely opposite to their interests.

...wait, I think you must have missed something. It's made perfectly clear why the Organization wants to fight Sora themselves at the end - they've got no further use for him once Kingdom Hearts is complete, think he's a threat, and want him dead. So it's not opposite to their interests to fight him if they think they can win.

The only two who actually fight Sora before that point are Demyx and Xaldin, and the Xaldin fight is because he got his hand caught in the figurative cookie jar by Sora without a Heartless version of the Beast to throw at him. As for Demyx, it was made pretty clear that he wasn't supposed to kill Sora, just test him for the Organization (Game Over screens aside).

Originally Posted by Spazzboy911

I was refering to any villain you could name, save few. Ganondorf just wanted the other triforce pieces to rule the world. Not much story, everyone wants world domination, Pinky and the Brain style. James Hook wanted to kill Peter Pan and the lost boys because he cut off his hand and fed it to a now flesh-driven crock that's trying to eat him. Sounds like a story. Kingdom Hearts just as most the villains with no real drive but P&B power

...not really sure that most of the Organization wanted power. The final bosses tend to - Marluxia as well as all the Ansem-forms - but the main motivation for the Organization in general was to find a way to get their hearts back (regardless of Xemnas really just wanting to use Kingdom Hearts for power and using the rest of them to get that).

And it's not like the motivations don't differ within the Organization, either. Axel did most of what he did in CoM out to amuse himself as well as to follow orders; I wouldn't doubt that part of the reason why Demyx is with the Organization/follows orders is out of fear (considering how he clearly doesn't want to be involved); Saix, while being a bit of a Superior's Pet, really did seem to care about getting his heart back at the end.

[UrbanQuattrus]

Originally Posted by Ikkin

...wait, I think you must have missed something. It's made perfectly clear why the Organization wants to fight Sora themselves at the end - they've got no further use for him once Kingdom Hearts is complete, think he's a threat, and want him dead. So it's not opposite to their interests to fight him if they think they can win.

The only two who actually fight Sora before that point are Demyx and Xaldin, and the Xaldin fight is because he got his hand caught in the figurative cookie jar by Sora without a Heartless version of the Beast to throw at him. As for Demyx, it was made pretty clear that he wasn't supposed to kill Sora, just test him for the Organization (Game Over screens aside).

In the World That Never Was, Saix summons a bunch of heartless to force Sora to fight them, supposedly because they only need him to kill that one more batch to complete Kingdom Hearts. Saix leaves...

...and then Xigbar shows up and kills all the heartless himself, rendering their destruction useless because they weren't killed by a keyblade, and then proceeds to try to kill Sora himself. So Xigbar's behavior is entirely contradictory to Saix's. This is totally illogical.

Even if they no longer need him by the time Luxord and Saix fight him, they should have thought about the fact that this boy single-handedly felled nearly every member he had encountered thus far, and it probably would have been in their best interests to stay out of the way and let Xemnas and his new god powers deal with him. At the very least, it would have been wise of Luxord and Saix to team up together; there was no logical reason for them to fight him separately. Their behavior smacks of callous stupidity and carelessness.

Demyx's death is understandable, but there is no reason Xaldin couldn't have run away instead of fighting - it seems to me he fought because he let his anger get the best of him. Which, of course, doesn't make sense, as he was a nobody, and shouldn't have felt anger or pride. If all nobodies do is think instead of feel, it seems to me that they could think a little better than they did. "Not very organized" was an understatement on Sora's part.

[Karate]

Originally Posted by Spazzboy911

Ladies and gentlemen, to put into perspective the roll of any villian you could ever imagine Kingdom Hearts style

"I am going to take over Kingdom Hearts so that i will be powerful enough to take over all worlds! HAhahaha ahahaha! Step One: Develope character? Screw that. Step Two: Get lots of ammo. Check. Step Three: Crush all who stand in your way. Oh, look, a foot note! 'If anyone who opposes you repeatingly attempts to stop you, be persistant and keep trying! He won't stop foiling your plans until you've killed him thuroly.' I see! Step Four: Walk into overly giant 'Jurrasic Park' type doors and enjoy the power of ruling all existance. Sounds like a plan! Extra note: Alway have a way to come back from defeat/death/infinite abyss so that you may try again and kick the arse of whoever sent you there. I can't forget that!"

Knowing this, why are you so surrprised? It's how they all do it. The only nemesis with good character and backround are those you know aren't necicarily 'bad'.

That was very PMF-esque. Don't know why I didn't think of it myself.

I was severely disappointed by the member in KH2. In CoM, they were all dark and mysterious, but in KH2 it was all "I'm here. Let's fight. I run away like a scared little bitch now. ta ta!"

I think so far, Ansem-The Seeker of Darkness was the best villian. Big talk, and can back it up. He'll blast your ass with darkness and destroy your would. Don't **** with him.

[Ikkin]

Originally Posted by UrbanQuattrus

In the World That Never Was, Saix summons a bunch of heartless to force Sora to fight them, supposedly because they only need him to kill that one more batch to complete Kingdom Hearts. Saix leaves...

...and then Xigbar shows up and kills all the heartless himself, rendering their destruction useless because they weren't killed by a keyblade, and then proceeds to try to kill Sora himself. So Xigbar's behavior is entirely contradictory to Saix's. This is totally illogical.

The fact that 358/2 Days involves missions by the Organization to kill Heartless, some of which probably didn't involve Roxas, suggest that they don't really need the Keyblade to be able to use the hearts.

It wouldn't really have been that bad of an idea to lie to Sora about that, either; if Sora thought that only the Heartless he took care of counted, he might be less worried about Kingdom Hearts getting completed in spite of him.

Plus, Saix seems to be a bit of a sadist and liked taunting Sora. Setting all the Heartless on Sora and making him be the one to complete Kingdom Hearts would probably be something he'd enjoy. Xigbar might just have been more pragmatic about it.

Even if they no longer need him by the time Luxord and Saix fight him, they should have thought about the fact that this boy single-handedly felled nearly every member he had encountered thus far, and it probably would have been in their best interests to stay out of the way and let Xemnas and his new god powers deal with him. At the very least, it would have been wise of Luxord and Saix to team up together; there was no logical reason for them to fight him separately. Their behavior smacks of callous stupidity and carelessness.

Xemnas would never have agreed to that. He probably wanted the rest of the Organization killed at that point; it was clear that he didn't care about them, and could easily have thought they'd just get in the way.

As for Saix and Luxord... their preferred fighting styles probably weren't very complementary, considering Luxord likes playing "games." Saix also probably wanted to fight alone; he certainly seemed pleased at getting a shot at Sora.

Demyx's death is understandable, but there is no reason Xaldin couldn't have run away instead of fighting - it seems to me he fought because he let his anger get the best of him. Which, of course, doesn't make sense, as he was a nobody, and shouldn't have felt anger or pride. If all nobodies do is think instead of feel, it seems to me that they could think a little better than they did. "Not very organized" was an understatement on Sora's part.

Logically speaking, if Xaldin had run away with Sora and his group so close, they'd probably end up being able to follow him through that portal - and that's pretty clearly not what he would want.

I also think that no hearts = no empathy, rather than no emotions - in which case, he could very well have gotten angry.

[UrbanQuattrus]

Originally Posted by Ikkin

The fact that 358/2 Days involves missions by the Organization to kill Heartless, some of which probably didn't involve Roxas, suggest that they don't really need the Keyblade to be able to use the hearts.

It wouldn't really have been that bad of an idea to lie to Sora about that, either; if Sora thought that only the Heartless he took care of counted, he might be less worried about Kingdom Hearts getting completed in spite of him.

But if they didn't actually need Sora's keyblade and that was just a lie, then there really wasn't an advantage for them to get involved with such an incredibly dangerous keybearer. Sora was killing heartless because he believed it was the right cause anyway, they would have saved a lot of trouble just to keep to themselves.

Originally Posted by Ikkin

Plus, Saix seems to be a bit of a sadist and liked taunting Sora. Setting all the Heartless on Sora and making him be the one to complete Kingdom Hearts would probably be something he'd enjoy. Xigbar might just have been more pragmatic about it.

Well, this might be true, but it would be more proof of how incredibly stupid and addle-brained the Organization members were.

Originally Posted by Ikkin

Xemnas would never have agreed to that. He probably wanted the rest of the Organization killed at that point; it was clear that he didn't care about them, and could easily have thought they'd just get in the way.

That makes sense; if Xemnas thought he was about to achieve his goal, he wouldn't have needed the others. But he seemed to be a bit preoccupied at the time...

Originally Posted by Ikkin

As for Saix and Luxord... their preferred fighting styles probably weren't very complementary, considering Luxord likes playing "games." Saix also probably wanted to fight alone; he certainly seemed pleased at getting a shot at Sora.

It's true that they didn't seem too complementary. But they should have worked out something better than what they did.

Originally Posted by Ikkin

Logically speaking, if Xaldin had run away with Sora and his group so close, they'd probably end up being able to follow him through that portal - and that's pretty clearly not what he would want.

Nah, there were several times when Organization members disappeared right in front of Sora's eyes and he wasn't quick enough to pursue. Xaldin could have gotten away.

Originally Posted by Ikkin

I also think that no hearts = no empathy, rather than no emotions - in which case, he could very well have gotten angry.

Nomura has stated specifically that they don't feel emotions.