Terra, Aqua, and Ven's origin and their ties to the Keyblade war/links to the series

[RikuDestiny]

wow that was a lot of information... but it all makes sense.....

[The Conquerer]

~No, not really. The way the UEM walks with his hands behind his back is a common sterotype of a scientist, which Xehanort was.
~The UEM is the only person, as of now, that has the "superhuman" quality Ansem discribed Xehanort of having.
~The only person, aside from Xehanort, who is completely fixated on Kingdom Hearts would be the UEM. The Org was only fixated because they were following Xemnas.
~Both Xehanort and the UEM seem to be emotionless and give no regard to others.

He probably was a scientist, I'm not saying that he was not. But how does that directly connects him to Xehanort? I mean Xehanort was a scientist as well, but I'm saying there is a connection, but they don't look alike.

Terra would be considered superhuman if he took in some of Kingdom Heart's powers and that as well could have influenced Xehanort in the long run..

Everyone can be considered emotionless when they are evil. I mean Xaldin treated Beast horribly.

Well, you have to put into consideration that the UEM is very old. People change physical features when they age. We have no idea how Xehanort would look older.

But even so, physically they don't look alike. I mean you can compare their facial featuers still. If you had a long, saggy nose in your eariler years, it would still be long, just wrickly. Their head shapes are not similar.

Are you suggesting that the UEM is Xehanort's father? The Secret Endings took place in the past, because the 3 warriors of the Keyblades are the warriors that has ties to Xehanort's memories. Xigbar I mean Braig was present when the warriors dissapeared and Xehanort appeared.

(Forgot to mention this)
When you meet Terra at Sunset Horizon, supposing he is all that remains of Xehanort, then Terra would be nothing more heart and would need a host, like we see with Kairi and Xehanort's Heartless. We see no transformation into a heartless on him and a heart cannot fight on it's own; and Nobodies cannot weild Keyblades (except Roxas who is a special exception to the rule) because they have no hearts, that would make Terra complete.

Your missing my point. When I stated that Terra fell into darkness and absorbed Kingdom Hearts's power, another being took over and manifested off of the darkness in Terra's heart and took form. With the seperation of Xehanort's presence vanished, Terra was restored back to normal.

Ok the reason why Ven looks like Roxas and why Axel tells him he has a heart because when Sora turned into a heartless (Aqua took him into the Room of Sleep[I thinks it's that one] and puts his heart safe [n Sora's heart]) So Sora used the darkblade where he wanted to free Kairi and another heart came out which was Ven's heart. Ven's heart went right into Roxas and that's why they look alike and that's why Axel says to him "So you so have a heart."

Hmm? Axel stated that Roxas really did have a heart, technically. I mean Sora was still around, and by the time Roxas left, Sora was already sleeping his his pod. Roxas infact had connections to a heart, Sora's heart. Roxas has a heart because he was linked to Sora and in the long run, his memories would led him to meet Sora.

I'm saying Xemnas recovered his lost memories, the ones he had when he was human, while in the room of sleep. A warrior and friend from his memories was Ven, a person that looked a lot like Roxas. My guess is that the connection between Roxas and Ven's appearance all lies traped in Xehanort's memories. In turn, this connects Sora and Ven together as well.

[pwn3d]

I, personally, am not for the idea that xehanort is terra, as it seems that terra knows,and hates, xehanort as well as nomura said that the three knights were new characters.

[The Conquerer]

I never said that Terra was infact Xehanort, but I'm suggesting that Xehanort came into existence when Terra's heart fell to darkness and while absorbing Kingdom Heart's power, it manifested and took over Terra's body. The manifestation took on form and that is how Xehanort came into creation. Xehanort has ties to Terra's memories because he had a strain on Terra's heart and state of mind, so his past is linked in with the memories of Xehanort.

I'm saying that Terra struggled while being trapped in by Xehanort. When Xehanort was finally pured from the body, via seperation of Xehanort's heart, body and soul, Terra was returned to normal. I'm saying a seperate being took over and developed a heart and state of mind that was given form from Kingdom Hearts's power.

Terra hated himself as well as Xehanort.

[OmniChaos]

Originally Posted by The Conquerer

He probably was a scientist, I'm not saying that he was not. But how does that directly connects him to Xehanort? I mean Xehanort was a scientist as well, but I'm saying there is a connection, but they don't look alike.

Terra would be considered superhuman if he took in some of Kingdom Heart's powers and that as well could have influenced Xehanort in the long run..

Yeah, but we don't know if he asorbed power from Kingdom Hearts or if he already could weild darkness like Riku.

But even so, physically they don't look alike. I mean you can compare their facial featuers still. If you had a long, saggy nose in your eariler years, it would still be long, just wrickly. Their head shapes are not similar.

Well, people don't always keep the same facial features when they age. We have no idea the physical changes Xehanort would take when he is aged to the UEM's level.

Are you suggesting that the UEM is Xehanort's father? The Secret Endings took place in the past, because the 3 warriors of the Keyblades are the warriors that has ties to Xehanort's memories. Xigbar I mean Braig was present when the warriors dissapeared and Xehanort appeared.

No, I'm suggesting the UEM is Xehanort.

Terra hated himself as well as Xehanort.

Well, wouldn't he have said something along the lines that he would have to atone for his sins as well?

[The Conquerer]

Yeah, but we don't know if he asorbed power from Kingdom Hearts or if he already could weild darkness like Riku.

It was theory. I'm sure that opening your heart to darkness would not completely change your form. I'm thinking of something grand. I don't believe Terra wielded darkness, but I think his heart fell to darkness or he accepted it. I think that is why he has connections to Riku as well. I mean Xehanort's powers are superhuman, something happen to him...

Well, people don't always keep the same facial features when they age. We have no idea the physical changes Xehanort would take when he is aged to the UEM's level.

You keep your facial featues, they just age accordingly. I'm saying they look nothing a like though.

No, I'm suggesting the UEM is Xehanort.

But the Secret Ending took place in the past, not the future. Xehanort can't be young in Kingdom Hearts and old in the next series, the Secret Ending is in the past. Nomura stated that the Secret Ending took place in the past, but it has ties to what we can expect in the future.

Terra, Aqua, and Ven were Keybladed warriors from Xigbar's past. When they vanished, Xehanort came into the picture without any memories, on the outskirts of Radiant Garden.

Well, wouldn't he have said something along the lines that he would have to atone for his sins as well?

He wants to fight Xehanort, his other. I think he knows that the manifestation escaped his body and is in some way shape or form causing trouble. I think he wanted to rid its evil from the world. That is why he told Sora, that all was left to give the young Keybladed warrior, was the engraving of the hatred he has for Xehanort in his heart.

[OmniChaos]

But the Secret Ending took place in the past, not the future. Xehanort can't be young in Kingdom Hearts and old in the next series, the Secret Ending is in the past. Nomura stated that the Secret Ending took place in the past, but it has ties to what we can expect in the future.

Terra, Aqua, and Ven were Keybladed warriors from Xigbar's past. When they vanished, Xehanort came into the picture without any memories, on the outskirts of Radiant Garden.

Yeah, but we do not know all of Kingdom Hearts' power. Say the UEM tried to asorb power form Kingdom Hearts, which he probablly did, maybe the power would have made him younger. Like I said, we don't know what power Kingdom Hearts holds. Then while he was asorbing the power, like it did with Ansem, he overloaded. Though it made him younger, it nearly killed him and whiped his memories.

He wants to fight Xehanort, his other. I think he knows that the manifestation escaped his body and is in some way shape or form causing trouble. I think he wanted to rid its evil from the world. That is why he told Sora, that all was left to give the young Keybladed warrior, was the engraving of the hatred he has for Xehanort in his heart.

But that still doesn't answer my question: You said Terra hated himself; Why didn't he say anything along the lines that he had to atone for his sins?

[pwn3d]

^exactly, if he is, or became xehanort, why wouldn't he speak up about it? Why would he say he hates xehanort, if he is xehanort? It's illogical. Everything we know about xehanort says 1) he's extremely arrogant 2)sociopath and 3)he a megalomaniac, both of which are given to oneself he thinks a lot of himself. If terra became xehanort, wouldn't he be both of those things, and being a sociopath and wouldn't care about his comrades, which he obviously does.

Another thing, if he,terra, became xehanort(or was taken over, whatever) why would he want to atone for his sins? He did it knowing the consequences, why would he? If he knew anything about the 'power of darkness' he'd be very good at controlling his emotions, especially anger and rage.

Yet another thing, if he was freed, why wouldn't he fight xehanort and his nobody on the spot? He's right there, and he feels bad because he couldn't help his friends, why wouldn't he avenge them?

[The Conquerer]

Yeah, but we do not know all of Kingdom Hearts' power. Say the UEM tried to asorb power form Kingdom Hearts, which he probablly did, maybe the power would have made him younger. Like I said, we don't know what power Kingdom Hearts holds. Then while he was asorbing the power, like it did with Ansem, he overloaded. Though it made him younger, it nearly killed him and whiped his memories.

Now that goes entirely against my theory, but its find I guess. The UEM was seeking to use the power of Kingdom Hearts, I agree, but so far, we've seen that Kingdom Hearts can bestow amazing powers of darkness and or light to the user because of the masses of darkness and light among the hearts assembled in Kingdom Hearts. I would think if someone absorbed some of the powers, they would become superhuman in a sense.

But how would that make him younger?

Terra's hair shape, and face shape are similar to Xehanort's and Xemnas's, I'm suggesting that when Terra's heart fell to darkness, he some how drew upon Kingdom Heart's powers subconsciencely and the manifestation of power took form and a new being was created, looking slighlty different, "Another". Remeber it was a past word that Xemnas typed in, in the secret place in Hallow Bastion.

I'm suggesting that the power from Kingdom Hearts, damaged Xehanort's memories.

I mean we are saying two completely different things, you believe that the UEM is the older version of Xehanort, just restored by Kingdom Heart's powers. I say that another being was created from Kingdom Hearts in responce to Terra's absorbing of Kingdom Hearts's, in the long run, created a special and superbeing.

But that still doesn't answer my question: You said Terra hated himself; Why didn't he say anything along the lines that he had to atone for his sins?

We saw how down he was, he was on the ground, kneeling over his Keyblade. I mean I don't think he has to mention that he has to atone for his sins, but I think its something he can't do. All we know is that he has hatred for Xehanort. I think he wants to look for his friends.

^exactly, if he is, or became xehanort, why wouldn't he speak up about it? Why would he say he hates xehanort, if he is xehanort? It's illogical. Everything we know about xehanort says 1) he's extremely arrogant 2)sociopath and 3)he a megalomaniac, both of which are given to oneself he thinks a lot of himself. If terra became xehanort, wouldn't he be both of those things, and being a sociopath and wouldn't care about his comrades, which he obviously does.

That is not what I'm saying.

I never said that Terra was infact Xehanort, but I'm suggesting that Xehanort came into existence when Terra's heart fell to darkness and while absorbing Kingdom Heart's power, it manifested and took over Terra's body. The manifestation took on form and that is how Xehanort came into creation. Xehanort has ties to Terra's memories because he had a strain on Terra's heart and state of mind, so his past is linked in with the memories of Xehanort.

I'm saying that Terra struggled while being trapped in by Xehanort. When Xehanort was finally pured from the body, via seperation of Xehanort's heart, body and soul, Terra was returned to normal. I'm saying a seperate being took over and developed a heart and state of mind that was given form from Kingdom Hearts's power.

Terra hated himself as well as Xehanort.

Another thing, if he,terra, became xehanort(or was taken over, whatever) why would he want to atone for his sins? He did it knowing the consequences, why would he? If he knew anything about the 'power of darkness' he'd be very good at controlling his emotions, especially anger and rage.

I'm saying he lost himself, he wants to make up for what he has done, but can't. Perhaps he injured his pride. I mean he has to know that the others, Sora, Riku, and Mickey are taking care of the worlds. He has to know something about Sora. I mean he is not the one he has chosen. If you look at it again, it could also possibly mean that he did not choose Sora to go after Xehanort, but its something he has to except and wants to engrave the hatred for Xehanort in his heart to Sora's.

Yet another thing, if he was freed, why wouldn't he fight xehanort and his nobody on the spot? He's right there, and he feels bad because he couldn't help his friends, why wouldn't he avenge them?

I think he knows that Sora the others are after them. That does not mean his heart is free from the hatred he has. I mean he could be looking for his friends. I find it wierd that Xemnas called Aqua's armor and Keyblade his friend (ties to the past maybe). Maybe Terra is looking for Aqua and Ven.

[OmniChaos]

Originally Posted by The Conquerer

Now that goes entirely against my theory, but its find I guess. The UEM was seeking to use the power of Kingdom Hearts, I agree, but so far, we've seen that Kingdom Hearts can bestow amazing powers of darkness and or light to the user because of the masses of darkness and light among the hearts assembled in Kingdom Hearts. I would think if someone absorbed some of the powers, they would become superhuman in a sense.

But how would that make him younger?

Like I said, we don't know everything about Kingdom Hearts. I'm not saying some of the power, I'm saying what if the UEM tried to asorb all of it, like Ansem was trying. He would eventually overload.

Terra's hair shape, and face shape are similar to Xehanort's and Xemnas's, I'm suggesting that when Terra's heart fell to darkness, he some how drew upon Kingdom Heart's powers subconsciencely and the manifestation of power took form and a new being was created, looking slighlty different, "Another". Remeber it was a past word that Xemnas typed in, in the secret place in Hallow Bastion.

Okay, another thing. Why did Xehanort's Heartless have the same clothes as the UEM? I doubt he saw them and thought they were cool and desided to wear them. Plus, Another could be connected to the UEM, we don't know.

I'm suggesting that the power from Kingdom Hearts, damaged Xehanort's memories.

Then why did Xehanort appear near death?

We saw how down he was, he was on the ground, kneeling over his Keyblade. I mean I don't think he has to mention that he has to atone for his sins, but I think its something he can't do. All we know is that he has hatred for Xehanort. I think he wants to look for his friends.

Maybe he felt guilty for loosing Ven and Aqua, or for letting Ven get hurt and not being able to do anything about it.

[pwn3d]

Now you are contradicting yourself in the first post you say that terra, after combining with the darkness/kingdom hearts became an 'alter-ego' of sorts, and was xehanort. Then, you turn around say xehanort wasn't terra. Which one is it?

ALSO:
If he had no memory of this being, then why would he hate it? It's like hating john doe, even though you don't even know he exists.

Perhaps he injured his pride.

Pride doesn't interfere with duty. Look at riku, he, for all intensive purposes, is the personification of darkness, yet he still looks for redemption.

I mean he has to know that the others, Sora, Riku, and Mickey are taking care of the worlds. He has to know something about Sora. I mean he is not the one he has chosen.

So? Riku knew sora had a keyblade, but he still travel to find his own. Sora knew mickey had a keyblade, and he still used his. Why would terra be any different?(let me note, riku's ego isn't exactly very big after that whole ' i became ansem' thing)

I think he knows that Sora the others are after them.

Xehanort split in two well before kingdom hearts took place. Sora and the others weren't chosen yet.

I find it wierd that Xemnas called Aqua's armor and Keyblade his friend.

Ever heard the saying 'speak of the devil.'

[The Conquerer]

Like I said, we don't know everything about Kingdom Hearts. I'm not saying some of the power, I'm saying what if the UEM tried to asorb all of it, like Ansem was trying. He would eventually overload.

If he overloaded, don't you think he would have parished?

Okay, another thing. Why did Xehanort's Heartless have the same clothes as the UEM? I doubt he saw them and thought they were cool and desided to wear them. Plus, Another could be connected to the UEM, we don't know.

I knew this question was going to be asked. I would like to give a good answer, but it would go against my theory. But I know what I can say that will work with my theory. I've stated that the UEM was from another world, most likely caused damage to the world of Light, accordingy to my theory. Ansem the Wise is a scientist as well, perhaps he was a rival of the UEM.

I believe the UEM managed to leave the world of Radiant Garden to find more information to support his theories. Perhaps he used a Keyblade from that world to open the door. Let's say the UEM was evil (of course) and was a warrior who took part in one of the Keyblade wars, but later became a scientist and rivial of Ansem the Wise. Maybe he wanted all knowledge, so he left the world with his Keyblade.

In the other worlds, he came across another Keyblade, perhaps the one that would led him to his success. I dont think its impossible to start out with one Keyblade and end up with another, I mean Mickey did the same. Now with Xehanort under the wing of Ansem the Wise, he probably remineded him of his rival and potential friend. Perhaps Ansem the Wise offered Xehanort one of the UEM's outfits.

I mean he wore it in Mickey's flash backs, but his white trench coat was covering it. The boots were the same as the ones Xehanort's heartless, as well as UEM's.

And oh yeah, how come Xemnas called out friend to Aqua's armor and Keyblade? Obviously Terra was friends with both Aqua and Ven. Also Xigbar mentioned that Xemnas was in the room of sleep, looking for his other friend. It has to be some connections to Terra right there.

Then why did Xehanort appear near death?

Exhausted perhaps. He was already beat up when he was with his friends, but with the powers taking a tole on his body from the long battles with the UEM, he could have ended up in bad shape.

Maybe he felt guilty for loosing Ven and Aqua, or for letting Ven get hurt and not being able to do anything about it.

I think he tried to look for them, but came up empty handed.

Now you are contradicting yourself in the first post you say that terra, after combining with the darkness/kingdom hearts became an 'alter-ego' of sorts, and was xehanort. Then, you turn around say xehanort wasn't terra. Which one is it?

What I said was that it took him over. He was over come by the power. I'm not condradicting myself. I'm saying he could experince everything going on, but he was trapped by his otherside. I'm saying it acted on its own, meaning it went out of his control and he could not stop himself.

ALSO:
If he had no memory of this being, then why would he hate it? It's like hating john doe, even though you don't even know he exists.

He had no control over the power that took him over. That's what I'm saying. He could not fight back with his other half.

Pride doesn't interfere with duty. Look at riku, he, for all intensive purposes, is the personification of darkness, yet he still looks for redemption.

His pride is injured because someone else would be doing the job for him. I mean he has his problems to, but Xehanort and Xemnas are corrupting the present Keyblade wielders worlds, etc. Perhaps he is going to led them fight.

So? Riku knew sora had a keyblade, but he still travel to find his own. Sora knew mickey had a keyblade, and he still used his. Why would terra be any different?(let me note, riku's ego isn't exactly very big after that whole ' i became ansem' thing)

Riku did not travel to find his own Keyblade. He used his darkness as his weapon, but down the road, he also used his light and it led him to find a Keyblade. It kind of just happened. Sora had to use his own, he was the one sealing up the worlds and protecting the realm of light. Mickey had other plans. As for Terra, I'm just stating that he does not want to go out anymore. I mean the next generation are running the worlds.

When I said Terra did not choose Sora, I meant he did not choose Sora to go out and fight his battles (Xehanort), but it all ended up for the best.

Xehanort split in two well before kingdom hearts took place. Sora and the others weren't chosen yet.

Mickey was still a wielder of the Keyblade back then. I'm saying, he was looking for his friends all of that time, when Sora and Riku finally gained Keyblades, they were able to hold of Xehanort and Xemnas. I think that led to the reason why he was not after him anymore.

I'm thinking he placed his friends before the worlds.

[OmniChaos]

Originally Posted by The Conquerer

If he overloaded, don't you think he would have parished?

Well, the UEM was extreamly powerful. There's a good chance he could barely survive.

Ansem the Wise is a scientist as well, perhaps he was a rival of the UEM.

Now with Xehanort under the wing of Ansem the Wise, he probably remineded him of his rival and potential friend. Perhaps Ansem the Wise offered Xehanort one of the UEM's outfits.

Umm....How would Ansem have one of the UEM's outfits if the UEM left? And why would he give it to Xehanort. Plus, don't you think Ansem would had stated that Xehanort remined him of his old rival?

And oh yeah, how come Xemnas called out friend to Aqua's armor and Keyblade? Obviously Terra was friends with both Aqua and Ven. Also Xigbar mentioned that Xemnas was in the room of sleep, looking for his other friend. It has to be some connections to Terra right there.

There's a word for that. Sarcasim. The word friend is in quotes both when Xemnas and Xigbar says it. Plus, Xigbar punches the word friend when he says it. So yeah, they aren't friends.

[pwn3d]

What I said was that it took him over. He was over come by the power. I'm not condradicting myself. I'm saying he could experince everything going on, but he was trapped by his otherside. I'm saying it acted on its own, meaning it went out of his control and he could not stop himself.

So now xehanort isn't a different person, and xehanort isn't terra corrupted. It's his alter ego. Keep to your story please.

I'm saying it acted on its own, meaning it went out of his control and he could not stop himself.

But he was able to name himself?

He had no control over the power that took him over.

So being a keyblader and having a strong heart isn't enough to keep the darkness away from him? So what you are saying is that he is incompetent.

His pride is injured because someone else would be doing the job for him.

So why not help?

As for Terra, I'm just stating that he does not want to go out anymore.

why?

I mean the next generation are running the worlds.

look at mickey and ansem the wise. They are both of a older generation, and both have helped the worlds greatly. Age doesn't interfere with duty.

I'm saying, he was looking for his friends all of that time, when Sora and Riku finally gained Keyblades, they were able to hold of Xehanort and Xemnas.

Why didn't he kill xehanort the moment they split? Just because people have a younger counterpart, doesn't mean they stop doing their job. Ex. bill gates didn't stop being a member of Microsoft ever time they hired a new programmer.

I'm thinking he placed his friends before the worlds.

He can do both. Sora is a good example.

[unknown wielder]

Everyone asks where did the keyblades go? I think that other people with qualified hearts got them in different places they are yet to be revealed like how sora got his keyblade when he was awoken in the beginnning of kh1