Are Axel and Riku still badass?

[Guernsey]

I had been hanging out at TVTropes and in one article I heard that Axel and Riku are not as badass as they would be. I'll admit that both suffered a lot in his appearance in KH2 with Axel no longer being the smooth manipulator his was in CoM and Riku making a few appearances here and there. They did redeem themeselves somewhat but do you guys still consider them to be badass?

[waifu-desu]

I liked Axel's transition between KH: CoM and KH2 because it really served to emphasize the influence of Roxas and his "personhood" on Axel's capacity for empathy and the like. I guess you could say that makes him less badass, but that wasn't his role in the story and honestly couldn't matter less to me.

Riku becoming less "badass" was just him becoming less of a prick.

[Ruran]

Axel, I've always been indifferent to so I don't have much to say about him.

Riku I think has been pretty consistent. He's wavered here and there but I'd say he's still "bad ass".

[MegaWallflower]

I still think they're both badass. Axel still is a good fighter and an interesting character, just less sadistic(for lack of a better word) than he seemed back from CoM. And Riku is plenty strong and cool, just more down-to-earth now, I think.

[Orion]

The question is disingenuous.

It presumes Riku and Axel were ever badasses to begin with.

[Hillboy]

Axel was badass in CoM, but that was about it.
Riku is still badass imo

[KevVentus]

Riku was never "badass" in my book. And he really dragged himself down with the melodrama in KH2.

I think Axel's still got some "street cred". I never fully played CoM, so my initial impression was in KH2. But from there I'd say he's been pretty consistent.

[alexis.anagram]

The question is disingenuous.

It presumes Riku and Axel were ever badasses to begin with.

Indeed. This thread is like asking if Quentin Tarantino is still bad ass.

Axel's always been a wounded puppy trying to win back Saix's affection, and Riku was just an idle deuteragonist trope mechanism triggered by Sora's "hero journey" theatrics.

I still like Axel though.

[wii.red24]

The question is disingenuous.

It presumes Riku and Axel were ever badasses to begin with.

Yeah but Riku and Axel were always really cool imo or badass.

[8298906]

What makes them not badass? What makes them badass?
It's all interpretation, I for one still consider them Badass.

[flurryflames]

I consider Axel still bad ass because that is how they protray his character in Chain of Memories. They may have changed his character, but he is still the same character and doesn't mean he still can't go back to his evil roots. He still has them through his creation. Having chakrams to fight with, sailing through flames, and being an assassin. He even knocked out Xion and isnt' afraid to hurt anyone if given the opportunity.

Riku I count as more the down to earth in my opinion.

[KevVentus]

I'm getting really tired of the phrase "badass"...

[Hillboy]

I'm getting really tired of the phrase "badass"...

Now that you mention it me too. Got a better word to use instead?

[Haeralis]

I never thought that Axel was, but Riku still is in my honest opinion.

[Sephiroth0812]

Now that you mention it me too. Got a better word to use instead?

It isn't so much the word that is the problem but the implication that a character has to be "badass" in order to be interesting and/or likeable while more sensitive or "normal" characters are looked down upon or labeled "lame" or "annoying".

That's at least what bothers myself more about so-called "badass" characters from a fandom-point of view (not just in KH) instead of the characters themselves.