Did You Know...?

[Riku/Sora-Rule]

I believe this had something to do with princesses of heart, Mulan for example wasn't princess of heart because her heart wasn't pure light (her disobeying her family), same story for Ariel, they are Disney princesses, but because they are not princesses of heart they used them as partymembers. Alice on the other hand does have a pure heart.

Look, it has nothing to do with in game explanations, it was all up to the developers choices. And if u want to say Mulan's heart couldn't be full of light because she disobeyed her family, well no character is perfect. Alice was too curious, qnd even says shes too curious for ner own good, and that is what sent her tumbling down the Rabbit Hole. Jasmine also disobeyed her father by leaving the palace. So it was all on the developers and I feel is was a bad decision.

[Ikkin]

Look, it has nothing to do with in game explanations, it was all up to the developers choices. And if u want to say Mulan's heart couldn't be full of light because she disobeyed her family, well no character is perfect. Alice was too curious, qnd even says shes too curious for ner own good, and that is what sent her tumbling down the Rabbit Hole. Jasmine also disobeyed her father by leaving the palace. So it was all on the developers and I feel is was a bad decision.

But developer choices need to be consistent with in-game explanations. =P You can't come up with a concept like "seven girls with hearts of pure light" and then have one of them make a deal with the devil... and without the "hearts of pure light" explanation, there'd be little reason for the group to consist of seven Disney princesses (or, well, six princesses and Kairi).

Honestly, Ariel is essentially Riku as a girl -- wants more out of life than to be confined to a small world when there's so much more out there, and makes a deal with the devil to get it -- right down to the pettiness of doing stuff to hurt people who care about her. She can't be a Princess of Heart if the "hearts of pure light" thing is to be anything other than a joke.

Mulan... well, it'd be really annoying if Mulan managed to get herself kidnapped, considering that she's one of the few Disney heroines who actually knows how to fight. =P

Pocahontas probably wasn't chosen because Squenix doesn't want to reopen that whole bag of worms. Remember, they took the Indians out of the Indian Camp in Neverland in BbS; it would kind of make sense if they were trying to avoid any racial controversies.

And that leaves Alice, who's sometimes appeared in Disney Princess merchandise, whose curiosity isn't enough of a strike against her in the pure heart category to make anyone wonder how she could be there, and who can be safely kidnapped without it seeming contrived and character-weakening. It's not really that surprising that she was chosen, given the circumstances. =P

EDIT: Not to mention that if Ariel was a Princess of Heart, she couldn't have been a party member, because she wouldn't have been available if you went back to Atlantica. I'd much rather have her as a party member than a PoH, because she was kind of awesome as a party member. ;)

[KevVentus]

I have to agree, Ariel definitely kicked the most fin.

Beast was a real powerhouse, but I feel like overall Ariel was a better team player

[Riku/Sora-Rule]

But developer choices need to be consistent with in-game explanations. =P You can't come up with a concept like "seven girls with hearts of pure light" and then have one of them make a deal with the devil... and without the "hearts of pure light" explanation, there'd be little reason for the group to consist of seven Disney princesses (or, well, six princesses and Kairi).

Honestly, Ariel is essentially Riku as a girl -- wants more out of life than to be confined to a small world when there's so much more out there, and makes a deal with the devil to get it -- right down to the pettiness of doing stuff to hurt people who care about her. She can't be a Princess of Heart if the "hearts of pure light" thing is to be anything other than a joke.

Mulan... well, it'd be really annoying if Mulan managed to get herself kidnapped, considering that she's one of the few Disney heroines who actually knows how to fight. =P

Pocahontas probably wasn't chosen because Squenix doesn't want to reopen that whole bag of worms. Remember, they took the Indians out of the Indian Camp in Neverland in BbS; it would kind of make sense if they were trying to avoid any racial controversies.

And that leaves Alice, who's sometimes appeared in Disney Princess merchandise, whose curiosity isn't enough of a strike against her in the pure heart category to make anyone wonder how she could be there, and who can be safely kidnapped without it seeming contrived and character-weakening. It's not really that surprising that she was chosen, given the circumstances. =P

EDIT: Not to mention that if Ariel was a Princess of Heart, she couldn't have been a party member, because she wouldn't have been available if you went back to Atlantica. I'd much rather have her as a party member than a PoH, because she was kind of awesome as a party member. ;)

Well first about Ariel, again that's curiosity, where Riku just wanted out, Ariel was cuipus aout other worlds as well as pushed by how harsh her father is to make the decision to make the deal with Ursula. besides I wasnt a big fan of Ariel as a party member, I never really used her, goofy had the attack power for the fights, and Donald helped with the first fight with Ursula and her cauldron.

Mulan, in KH2, was when she had joined the Army. Remember how the story goes, she learns to fight in the army. So KH takes place long before she disguises herself as Ping, which under that guise she was a terrible fighter, so at that point in time, it is understandable that she could be abducted.

For Pocahontas, That really wasn't a terrible movie. Honestly it's up to opinion mostly as a lot of people thought Hercules was bad, and yet that world has been in EVERY kingdom hearts game up until 3D, and Hunchback of Notre Dame isn't a big favorite either, but now that's a world in 3D. About racial issues, there really were none out of Pocahontas, as it was nothing like the Indians from Peter Pan. And I'll address this now, those Indians from Peter Pan, weren't meant to be racist. think about it, when you were young and you heard cowboy and Indian stories, how they are portrayed in Peter Pan is how you imagined them. And in Peter Pan, Neverland is about bringing the children's imaginations to life, and that is how we thought of them when we were young, before racism was something we understood. So over all, Pocahontas would have been a better choice than Alice, cuz Pocahontas is really pure and understands everything around her. I still feel any of the, we're better

[Hillboy]

For Pocahontas, That really wasn't a terrible movie. Honestly it's up to opinion mostly as a lot of people thought Hercules was bad, and yet that world has been in EVERY kingdom hearts game up until 3D, and Hunchback of Notre Dame isn't a big favorite either, but now that's a world in 3D. About racial issues, there really were none out of Pocahontas, as it was nothing like the Indians from Peter Pan. And I'll address this now, those Indians from Peter Pan, weren't meant to be racist. think about it, when you were young and you heard cowboy and Indian stories, how they are portrayed in Peter Pan is how you imagined them. And in Peter Pan, Neverland is about bringing the children's imaginations to life, and that is how we thought of them when we were young, before racism was something we understood. So over all, Pocahontas would have been a better choice than Alice, cuz Pocahontas is really pure and understands everything around her. I still feel any of the, we're better

He hasn't saying that Pocahontas was a bad movie. Just that SE were avoiding a racial flame war

[Riku/Sora-Rule]

He hasn't saying that Pocahontas was a bad movie. Just that SE were avoiding a racial flame war

I thought he was saying it was bad by saying it was a bag of worms, but still like I said, Pocahontas actually wasn't racist. If that would cause some racial issues, then why would they Find Mulan to be acceptable? Having the guardian ancestors be comedic relief? Eddie Murphy as Mushu the Guardian dragon (the outrage there being the only characater trait is Eddie Murphy)? Portraying MOST people in a friggn war be goofy and not at all serious about it? that sounds kind of racist to the Chinese.

Or how about having included Dumbo in the first game? With the Crow racism claims on that?

Sometimes racism isn't always apt he issue.

[Hillboy]

I thought he was saying it was bad by saying it was a bag of worms, but still like I said, Pocahontas actually wasn't racist. If that would cause some racial issues, then why would they Find Mulan to be acceptable? Having the guardian ancestors be comedic relief? Eddie Murphy as Mushu the Guardian dragon (the outrage there being the only characater trait is Eddie Murphy)? Portraying MOST people in a friggn war be goofy and not at all serious about it? that sounds kind of racist to the Chinese.

Or how about having included Dumbo in the first game? With the Crow racism claims on that?

Sometimes racism isn't always apt he issue.

Bag of worms = motaphor for people being pissed
He never said the movie was racist either just that if SE handled it wrong people could assume they were being racist. It's a touchy issue that could easily screw anything up with the slightest misunderstanding. Hell, someone said the idea of a dream catcher keyblade would be racist for DDD.

[lycorismoon29]

One argument here on the forums, one argument drawn out by me on FB. It's like Ariel is the bait to open the doors of all types of arguments. xD

[Hillboy]

One argument here on the forums, one argument drawn out by me on FB. It's like Ariel is the bait to open the doors of all types of arguments. xD

Open the door, THE DOOR TO EVERLASTING ARGUMENTS!

[KevVentus]

I honestly thought they just avoided Ariel as a princess because they couldn't get around the whole "tail" thing

But I did expect her to be one the first time I played. Alice never really did make much sense to me. Maybe because Wonderland was the first world traveled to and they wanted to get the situation out there from the beginning?

[Sign]

I honestly thought they just avoided Ariel as a princess because they couldn't get around the whole "tail" thing

But I did expect her to be one the first time I played. Alice never really did make much sense to me. Maybe because Wonderland was the first world traveled to and they wanted to get the situation out there from the beginning?

Not avoided. She was intended to be a PoH, but they had some time constraints during development and had to scrap their original plans.

[King Chaser]

Not avoided. She was intended to be a PoH, but they had some time constraints during development and had to scrap their original plans.

I still would have liked to have broken into Hollow Bastion with the Princes.... and the Mad Hatter o_O

[Seraph]

Did you know that popcorns pop because they have a drop of water inside of them that, when heated, it turns into vapor and makes them pop?

[kupo1121]

Well first about Ariel, again that's curiosity, where Riku just wanted out, Ariel was cuipus aout other worlds as well as pushed by how harsh her father is to make the decision to make the deal with Ursula. besides I wasnt a big fan of Ariel as a party member, I never really used her, goofy had the attack power for the fights, and Donald helped with the first fight with Ursula and her cauldron.

Mulan, in KH2, was when she had joined the Army. Remember how the story goes, she learns to fight in the army. So KH takes place long before she disguises herself as Ping, which under that guise she was a terrible fighter, so at that point in time, it is understandable that she could be abducted.

Interesting argument, but I feel like I've heard it before and have argued both sides lol xP

Saying Ariel was just curious is true, but her curiosity does not rival that of Alice's. Alice went after the rabbit as she did not know she was going to fall into the hole. She says her curiosity is bad for her because it got her into this mess though it was unintentional, Alice did not force herself down that hole.
Ariel on the other hand, she knows how dangerous the humans can be (humans murdered her mother if you watch Little Mermaid 3), and she still WILLINGLY went to Ursula out of a fit of rage. One cannot compare the two and say they are on equal terms.

In terms of having a heart of pure light, I do not think Ariel fit the bill when it comes to a PoH for this exact reason, she did have darkness in her heart and she is, as Ikkin said, like Riku. Both of them were curious to see outside worlds, neither one of them did it to spite someone.

Also, for the Mulan point, this was in KH1, so we did not know that Mulan had yet to don Ping's attire. If they had Mulan captured in KH1, people would have complained because we would have assumed she could have fought by then, and going through all that explanation for a character with a world not even in the game would have been a hassle.

SE used all the Disney princesses they could at the time (minus Mulan), so they had to resort to an unofficial Disney princess:

List of Unofficial Disney Princesses

The only options they had were Wendy, Alice, or Jane. If I had to choose one, Alice or Wendy would work best.

[Ikkin]

Well first about Ariel, again that's curiosity, where Riku just wanted out, Ariel was cuipus aout other worlds as well as pushed by how harsh her father is to make the decision to make the deal with Ursula. besides I wasnt a big fan of Ariel as a party member, I never really used her, goofy had the attack power for the fights, and Donald helped with the first fight with Ursula and her cauldron.

"It's only curiosity"... doesn't really work as a defense.

Even if you don't consider curiosity to be Riku's driving force, there is one other notable dark character for whom curiosity is their main driving force. You know, the guy who was willing to risk an apocalypse out of sheer curiosity -- Master Xehanort himself. ;)

Ariel's motivations require a whole lot of mental gymnastics to suggest they're pure-hearted, in contrast with the rest of the princesses who were chosen, particularly because of the tendency for that sort of curiosity to go horribly wrong in this series. As it stands, it's possible to come up with some kind of description of the kind of character a pure heart provides... but if Ariel was there, there'd be almost nothing to define it.