KHI makes a KH game! Discussion #5: Gameplay and Battle System Design

[Marx15]

What I thought would be cool too if Lucius would appear in the form of what Ophan drew, make that design really big and let Lucius like appear out of 'another realm' sort of speak.

Like there's some kind of portal and only a part of his body comes out of this portal, hope this makes sense. Therefore it's not the same as another final boss fight of KH (since it always incorporated some kind of big monster with the final boss in it).

Have you already read the final battle description I made? I posted it in the world discussion thread btw? :)

I've read most of it. I thought it was great.

I was just saying what I had in my head when writing up all of that.

I know some/most people don't like the idea of a giant monster, with the final boss inside/apart of it.
But really it's not only KH that does this.
I see this as a common thing used to implement multiple designs.
The Final boss is either a giant monster, is apart of the giant monster, or you fight a giant monster and then the final boss separately.

I know what you are saying, it's just that the #1 reason I see for people being against this idea, is that it's copying every other KH game, but it's not. It's a common idea that is used in a lot of fantasy games.

I like the idea of an Ultima-esque final boss. Yet I also liked Ophan's drawing too. Mabye several people can post some more designs and we can have Ophan or Cassidy or someone kind of fuse together the ideas (those two are both really good at doing that)

I was saying that they'd both be used. I loved Ophan's drawing. I don't want that to go to waste.

[king_mickey rule]

I've read most of it. I thought it was great.

I was just saying what I had in my head when writing up all of that.

I know some/most people don't like the idea of a giant monster, with the final boss inside/apart of it.
But really it's not only KH that does this.
I see this as a common thing used to implement multiple designs.
The Final boss is either a giant monster, is apart of the giant monster, or you fight a giant monster and then the final boss separately.

I know what you are saying, it's just that the #1 reason I see for people being against this idea, is that it's copying every other KH game, but it's not. It's a common idea that is used in a lot of fantasy games.

Thanks n.n

Hmmm yeah, I get what you're saying. But what I imagined for the fight against Lucius is that it would be actually Lucius that we would be fighting, not a big monster with him in it.

I could see it working though if we would pull some kind of 'Gundam' thing and let him be inside the giant monster like you said and let him control the monster's mind and actions (or you could say like the mecha suit in avatar).

That way you're fighting something big but it's still controlled by Lucius' mind and not just a monster where Lucius is hiding in :)

[Marx15]

Thanks n.n

Hmmm yeah, I get what you're saying. But what I imagined for the fight against Lucius is that it would be actually Lucius that we would be fighting, not a big monster with him in it.

I could see it working though if we would pull some kind of 'Gundam' thing and let him be inside the giant monster like you said and let him control the monster's mind and actions (or you could say like the mecha suit in avatar).

That way you're fighting something big but it's still controlled by Lucius' mind and not just a monster where Lucius is hiding in :)

For him being inside it and controlling it, I was actually thinking something like Devil May Cry 4.



This battle takes place inside this big statue guy, right here.....




That's something I was kinda thinking of, I don't know if anyone else would be for it.
It's a way to implement both the Large Monster that Lucius is hiding in, and Sacrifice Lucius all together.

For anyone who played DMC4, I hope you know where I am getting at.

[king_mickey rule]

For him being inside it and controlling it, I was actually thinking something like Devil May Cry 4.

This battle takes place inside this big statue guy, right here.....

That's something I was kinda thinking of, I don't know if anyone else would be for it.
It's a way to implement both the Large Monster that Lucius is hiding in, and Sacrifice Lucius all together.

For anyone who played DMC4, I hope you know where I am getting at.

Yeah, played DMC 4, was one hell of a final battle there :D

But you see, the way it's done there (at least in the beginning) I wouldn't like it since in our case it would be Lucius hiding inside some monster and I just don't see the guy hiding y'know. I imagine him being all for action if he wants his plans to succeed.

Now, for those who didn't play DMC 4, the picture Marx posted is a fight that takes place after the video.

In that fight, the final boss has full control over the big statue, that's what I would like when we use something big. In DMC 4 though (if I'm correct) the guy became the statue and that's also something I think is kinda iffy although if handled right, could be cool too.

But what I imagine is Lucius not really becoming the big monster but controlling it from the inside, from it's chest whatever, but really controlling it so you still have the feeling you're actually fighting Lucius (like I said, like the soldiers in Avatar controlled the battle suits) and maybe like at some point during the fight actually unite with the monster and be the big monster.

But I do get your point of view Marx :)

[Marx15]

Well what his Holiness did was that he entered through the gem in the Sparda Statue's head, and kinda took control of it.
The pic I posted was after His Holiness is defeated.

I don't know why, but it's hard for me to explain it. But yes, kinda like what you are saying. I just thought that the DMC reference might help me understand what you were getting at.

Basically for the fight with Lucius, I was just thinking that it would be---

First you would fight him in his armor. I'm pretty sure everyone wanted that.
Then he would turn into a Sacrifice, and kinda like "summon" the bigger Sacrifice to use as a "weapon".
Basically this---

Would be attached to the creature, somehow....maybe tentacles/wires attached to his back, lead up to the creature.
The more and more I think of it, the more and more I think the Larger Sacrifice should be like half a body.... you know, torso up. (To fit along with the Ultima pic I provided)

It's hard for me to describe my input for the larger Sacrifice.... going with what you were saying king_mickey....I was thinking like maybe there's a cavity in the Sacrifice's chest, in which Lucius is and is controlling the big thing. Or throughout the fight, the fab four could create such a cavity....?

But anyways, basically the heroes would fight against this large Sacrifice and then afterwards, would go after Lucius, still in Sacrifice form.
Then, (going off the cavity in the chest I said) they would land on....maybe a platform within the cavity, then they'd fight a few Sacrifice's, and then after awhile, Lucius would drop from his suspension, and then the heroes would fight against Sacrifice Lucius.

Then after all that, the larger Sacrifice would deteriorate and then the fab four would leave.

Then they'd return to the top of Lucius' Tower, to confront him for his big final speech, and then finally die.


If that's hard to understand, then I'm sorry. I found it hard to explain it with words.......

[king_mickey rule]

Well what his Holiness did was that he entered through the gem in the Sparda Statue's head, and kinda took control of it.
The pic I posted was after His Holiness is defeated.

I don't know why, but it's hard for me to explain it. But yes, kinda like what you are saying. I just thought that the DMC reference might help me understand what you were getting at.

Basically for the fight with Lucius, I was just thinking that it would be---

First you would fight him in his armor. I'm pretty sure everyone wanted that.
Then he would turn into a Sacrifice, and kinda like "summon" the bigger Sacrifice to use as a "weapon".
Basically this---

Would be attached to the creature, somehow....maybe tentacles/wires attached to his back, lead up to the creature.
The more and more I think of it, the more and more I think the Larger Sacrifice should be like half a body.... you know, torso up. (To fit along with the Ultima pic I provided)

It's hard for me to describe my input for the larger Sacrifice.... going with what you were saying king_mickey....I was thinking like maybe there's a cavity in the Sacrifice's chest, in which Lucius is and is controlling the big thing. Or throughout the fight, the fab four could create such a cavity....?

But anyways, basically the heroes would fight against this large Sacrifice and then afterwards, would go after Lucius, still in Sacrifice form.
Then, (going off the cavity in the chest I said) they would land on....maybe a platform within the cavity, then they'd fight a few Sacrifice's, and then after awhile, Lucius would drop from his suspension, and then the heroes would fight against Sacrifice Lucius.

Then after all that, the larger Sacrifice would deteriorate and then the fab four would leave.

Then they'd return to the top of Lucius' Tower, to confront him for his big final speech, and then finally die.


If that's hard to understand, then I'm sorry. I found it hard to explain it with words.......

Nah man, it happens to me all the time that I'm at a loss for words so don't mind that at all xD

But that's pretty much where I'm getting at, him actually being connected with the big monster and controlling him from inside a cavity, via wires whatever, but imo we have to see for ourselves that he is in fact connected with the monster and that he is controlling everything.

Now, what I imagined though is finishing him off when he's still controlling the big guy and not destroy the big monster first and go after Lucius again. You can see it like this, the big monster and Lucius are two seperate beings but they fight like one being, I kind of want him to be defeated in this form since he's supposed to be really powerful in this form.

Me and Tanner were discussing this in the world discussion thread and he actually said some interesting stuff about the last battle (which would take place at the top of the tower). You should check those things out, it could help you understanding to where I'm getting at if I'm not explaining it clearly :)

[Marx15]

Nah man, it happens to me all the time that I'm at a loss for words so don't mind that at all xD

But that's pretty much where I'm getting at, him actually being connected with the big monster and controlling him from inside a cavity, via wires whatever, but imo we have to see for ourselves that he is in fact connected with the monster and that he is controlling everything.

Now, what I imagined though is finishing him off when he's still controlling the big guy and not destroy the big monster first and go after Lucius again. You can see it like this, the big monster and Lucius are two seperate beings but they fight like one being, I kind of want him to be defeated in this form since he's supposed to be really powerful in this form.

Me and Tanner were discussing this in the world discussion thread and he actually said some interesting stuff about the last battle (which would take place at the top of the tower). You should check those things out, it could help you understanding to where I'm getting at if I'm not explaining it clearly :)

Alright, and no I understand what you are getting at now.

And yeah, what I said in my last post was that the large monster Sacrifice would die off once you beat Sacrifice Lucius.
Is that what you were saying?

[king_mickey rule]

Alright, and no I understand what you are getting at now.

And yeah, what I said in my last post was that the large monster Sacrifice would die off once you beat Sacrifice Lucius.
Is that what you were saying?

Well not exactly, I'm saying you just fight big monster + Sacrifice Lucius as one being and not like beat Sacrifice Lucius inside the big monster and after that the monster would die off.

What I mean is you never fight'em seperatly, you start the final fight with them being united and you end it like that too. Hope that clears it out for ya :)

[inverse K-blade7]

If commands are pretty much confirmed, another important thing to discuss is abilities: Will they be earned by leveling up/story events, or by merging commands/story events? Personally id prefer the former. That way each ability can specifically be earned at a given point, and it doesn't require luck. And should there be combat abilities like upward slash, vortex, aerial blitz, etc?

[DokemonStudios]

If your thinking about using the action based gameplay in the original games (If you're really making the game of course), that'd be hard to program in something like RPG Maker. If we were to use turn based however, we could make it like Final Fantasy 6's Active Time Battle system and have elements from the turn based battles in KH Re:Coded. (I.e how you use commands when you attack.)

[Hillboy]

Is it just me or is this no longer sounding like a KH game?

[inverse K-blade7]

Is it just me or is this no longer sounding like a KH game?

What do you mean? Where do you see alack of KH-ness?

[Hillboy]

The whole boss connected to a bigger boss has been done before, (final ansem kh1) lets not do that. And as for the lack of KH, well i dont know... everything is just being over complecated where kingdom hearts has been its best when simpilest. I dont know about you but recoded and days had all thoes wierd ways of leveling up and gaining new abilites and i hated both of them.

[inverse K-blade7]

KH hasn't been "simple" in a long time. But I hear what you're saying about being overcomplicated. But to fair, things are always going to seem complicated in the planning stages.

[Marx15]

The whole boss connected to a bigger boss has been done before, (final ansem kh1) lets not do that. And as for the lack of KH, well i dont know... everything is just being over complecated where kingdom hearts has been its best when simpilest. I dont know about you but recoded and days had all thoes wierd ways of leveling up and gaining new abilites and i hated both of them.

KH hasn't been "simple" in a long time. But I hear what you're saying about being overcomplicated. But to fair, things are always going to seem complicated in the planning stages.

This, and plus as I said before, KH isn't the only game that uses the final boss is in some way attached to a larger being.

But yes, everything is complicated when you are coming up with it.
Everything has its complications. It's just when it's finally done, it doesn't seem like it so much.

Days....Days was Days. I agree it was a little odd. It was a first, it really was different than to what people were accustomed to, so I see where you're going with that.
But Re:CODED, you're the first person I've seen that's hated that leveling system.
Any and all reviews I see say it had one of the best Gameplay Systems yet, including the Stat Matrix.
I even think it was great.