Why Kairi is NOT a wielder.

[Smile]

I know. Call me petty. We all know I am. But after thread after thread of "zomfg Kairi's a wielder", here's my official counter.
Let's go by this step by step.

It begins with "Kairi has a Keyblade now!"

Thankfully, we're past that phase as most of us came to realize that due to the fact the one that summoned the Keyblade was Riku, and the novels even bothered to describe what he felt at the time, that the Keyblade itself is his.

Improvement.

Then comes "she held it, she must be a qualified wielder."

And this is where this thread comes in.
More debatable/arguable handings of Keyblade for temporary usage like Roxas -> Xion and Roxas -> Riku aside, we're all well familiar with the infamous scenes in which the Keyblade zapped back from Leon in KH1, and Jack Sparrow in KH2, back to Sora. These scenes are often used to show that since the Keyblade stayed with Kairi, it comes to show she's unlike those two.
Well, let's show why they both actually serve my diabolical purposes, hm?

Jack
Sora knew full well the Keyblade would zap back to him. Going by how it did the same thing in the cut-scene battle between him and Roxas in the regular KH2, I'd say it was an active ability, and one Roxas was unaware of, due to his shock.
More so than the Keyblade not liking staying with Jack, I think it's not unreasonable to assume Sora called it back.
Supposedly you can say that due to the ensuing discussion about Jack becoming able to wield and snatching the Keyblade from Sora, that they're actually saying the opposite, but - c'mon, how much does Jack really know about the Keyblade (I think that if he knew he could get one of his own, he wouldn't have came after Sora's - and it is possible, supposedly), not to mention even SDG themselves?
If he'll be able to wield, unless something happens along the way (namely - Sora reaching into Riku's Heart to snatch the KK from him) - he'll probably get a Keyblade of his own along the way.

And now, for what this thread is really about.

Leon
Supposedly, Leon held the Keyblade and the moment he did, it zapped back to Sora. Wonderful basis for Kairi being a wielder due to her holding on.
Only if she's a wielder because of it - hate to break it to you, but so is Leon, and most likely, Yuffie, too.

The Sora vs. Leon fight took place in the 1st District.
Sora woke up in the hotel in the 2nd District.
Sora was moved.
Why should we care?

Because the Keyblade was moved too.

It didn't disappear. You'd think that once he passed out, the Keyblade would disappear, but it didn't. And the only way for Yuffie and Leon to keep the Heartless from finding Sora was to keep the Keyblade away from him. Which seemed to have had a rather physical meaning, as shortly after Sora got the Keyblade again, the Heartless did indeed find them.
So - assuming Leon carried Sora, that would leave Yuffie to carry the Keyblade - unless Leon carried both. And then, the Keyblade was rather comfortably resting against the wall. I doubt they managed to pull it off by kicking it around, regardless of what an awesome ninja Yuffie supposedly is (who ended up falling on her bum in KH2 so I doubt she's that great xD).
It's not until after Sora woke up that the Keyblade zapped back to him, showing us that much like how Roxas didn't know it could be wielded and hence, his Keyblades were held by other people - that unless Sora at least partially wishes for this to happen, the Keyblade stays right where it is. Whoever holds it seems to play a much smaller part in the whole mess.

tl;dr Yuffie and/or Leon held/managed the Keyblade while Sora was passed out. So either you say they're qualified wielders too - something very few people here should want, I'd hope - or stop saying it about Kairi :P

[loke13]

except riku wasn't passed out when he gave it to kairi and she held way longer then Jack,Leon or (Possible) Yuffie did.

[Smile]

Originally Posted by loke13

except riku wasn't passed out when he gave it to kairi and she held way longer then Jack,Leon or (Possible) Yuffie did.

Counter argument - Sora giving Jack the Keyblade.
Riku wanted Kairi to hold it, which would be the differentiating factor here.

[Grace Assassin]

Nothing to do with how long they can hold the keyblade so much as it is the fact that she can actually use it- ie wield it.

[Smile]

Originally Posted by Grace Assassin

Nothing to do with how long they can hold the keyblade so much as it is the fact that she can actually use it- ie wield it.

Our definitions of 'wielding' seem to really be different. Since to me, wielding would include summoning. Especially since it seems there's only one qualified person per-Keyblade. Since you know, Riku and Sora had a tug-o-war over the KK. One snatched it from the other, so no. No two people can be "qualified" over the same Keyblade at the same time, it seems, unless complications such as the ones presented in Days are brought into play.

And she held it. Like Leon and Yuffie must've had. Should I take it you accept them as qualified wielders as well?

[king_Nick]

Originally Posted by loke13

except riku wasn't passed out when he gave it to kairi and she held way longer then Jack,Leon or (Possible) Yuffie did.

actually we only see her swing it around once or twice and then ita gone :/

So going by what Smile said Leon did hold it longer

[Grace Assassin]

Originally Posted by Smile

Our definitions of 'wielding' seem to really be different.
And she held it. Like Leon and Yuffie must've had. Should I take it you accept them as qualified wielders as well?

Wield Definition | Definition of Wield at Dictionary.com

[Smile]

Originally Posted by Grace Assassin

Wield Definition | Definition of Wield at Dictionary.com

Since real life definitions hold oh-so well to KH meanings. Especially since the ones that put down the terms were Japanese people.

And if all you have to say is "Kairi's a wielder, Kairi's a wielder", stop. We got the point, now get to the actual topic of this thread please :P Which is Leon and Yuffie.

[Igshar]

A decent argument, but here is my counter!

Kairi completes the trio of SRK, and so she must be a Wielder because ATV are all Wielders! HAHAHAHA


Now, for serious stuff... The argument gets fun when you bring Roxas -> Riku and Roxas -> Xion! ;-;

oh and~

Our definitions of 'wielding' seem to really be different. Since to me, wielding would include summoning. Especially since it seems there's only one qualified person per-Keyblade. Since you know, Riku and Sora had a tug-o-war over the KK. One snatched it from the other, so no. No two people can be "qualified" over the same Keyblade at the same time, it seems, unless complications such as the ones presented in Days are brought into play.

xD Woot~ Proof that Roxas and Sora both did not use the same Keyblade in Days. <3 Just had to point that out to you. ;3

And the whole Wield argument: Wielding is used differently than it is in normal language within Kingdom Hearts, in much the same way as Heart is used differently. Going by a dictionary definition, the Heart is just a life-sustaining organ, meaning Nobodies cannot exist, as one cannot live without a Heart.

[Grace Assassin]

Originally Posted by Smile

Since real life definitions hold oh-so well to KH meanings. Especially since the ones that put down the terms were Japanese people.

And if all you have to say is "Kairi's a wielder, Kairi's a wielder", stop. We got the point, now get to the actual topic of this thread please :P Which is Leon and Yuffie.

This isn't like the "Real life logic/science/etc doesn't work in KH" argument.
It's a word.

"Donald ate a sandwich."
But how do we know he "ate" a sandwich. Perhaps it means something else in KH.

Wielding is wielding.
There's a reason why-

Around the end there was a scene where a character that's not Sora (Kairi) held a keyblade, so does that mean they have the nature to be a Chosen One?
I wonder? There are still more backgrounds of the keyblade that haven't been revealed. I'm still going around that, so I can't say anything much about it. But it's true that scene is hinting something.

-There is inquiring as to Kairi's status and not Jack Sparrow or Leons. What she did was different.

I also don't see what the big deal is about Leon and Yuffie because, as I said, it's a matter of using, not holding.
It's kind of irrelevant anyway because we don't know how the keyblade got like there, nor was it ever intended to matter.

[Smile]

Originally Posted by Igshar

Now, for serious stuff... The argument gets fun when you bring Roxas -> Riku and Roxas -> Xion! ;-;

Only that can still be easily explained by the fact Roxas didn't know he could call the Keyblade back, as shown in his fight with Sora. So whether or not Riku and Xion truly are qualified to hold Roxas's Keyblade means a lot less than had Roxas knew he could call it back. He simply didn't, which could mean simply it stayed there because he didn't tell it to come back.

xD Woot~ Proof that Roxas and Sora both did not use the same Keyblade in Days. <3 Just had to point that out to you. ;3

Only Roxas and Sora are two parts of the same person so they share the qualification over the KK. :P

And the whole Wield argument: Wielding is used differently than it is in normal language within Kingdom Hearts, in much the same way as Heart is used differently. Going by a dictionary definition, the Heart is just a life-sustaining organ, meaning Nobodies cannot exist, as one cannot live without a Heart.

Thank you ;w; hence why I often use a capital W for Wielding, and prefer the term "Use" for what went on with Kairi as she wasn't truly Wielding - she has not a Keyblade of her own, nor was she the one to summon the Keyblade she held and swung.

Originally Posted by Grace Assassin

-There is inquiring as to Kairi's status and not Jack Sparrow or Leons. What she did was different.

After Days, I can't take anything Nomura tries to imply about Kairi as seriously intending to be about her. Least of all when in a sentence that talked about Duel Wielding, he said we'll see why Kairi was able to use a Keyblade in BBS.
Kairi and the Keyblade, Duel Wielding. I wonder what he could be meaning there.

I also don't see what the big deal is about Leon and Yuffie because, as I said, it's a matter of using, not holding.

Show me her summoning one and we'll talk.

It's kind of irrelevant anyway because we don't know how the keyblade got like there, nor was it ever intended to matter.

Oooor, it doesn't suit with your views so it doesn't matter. Which is why I did bring it up because it suits mine. However, it is still something to take into consideration.

[krexia]

I'm not going to get into the details of the argument because I haven't read the other thread yet - but for the record, in Japanese they're usually literally called 'those chosen by the Keyblade', or sometimes 'Keyblade users'. So yeah, I'm not sure the English definition of 'wield' is all that relevant.

[Smile]

Originally Posted by krexia

I'm not going to get into the details of the argument because I haven't read the other thread yet - but for the record, in Japanese they're usually literally called 'those chosen by the Keyblade', or sometimes 'Keyblade users'. So yeah, I'm not sure the English definition of 'wield' is all that relevant.

;w; ilu.
God dammit. Sometimes I wish the translation staff here would've worked on the games >_>; srsly.

[Igshar]

Wielding is wielding.
There's a reason why-

-There is inquiring as to Kairi's status and not Jack Sparrow or Leons. What she did was different.

He could easily be hinting that Riku, a chosen Wielder, willed Kairi to use it, something which would have also been previously unexplained. This could easily be explained in BbS, by one of ATV passing off their Keyblade to another for an epicshit dual wielding scene/battle.

I also don't see what the big deal is about Leon and Yuffie because, as I said, it's a matter of using, not holding.
It's kind of irrelevant anyway because we don't know how the keyblade got like there, nor was it ever intended to matter.

Using as in...? We have no way to say that the Keyblade was anything more than a fancy sword in Kairi's hands. No Hearts were released (Purebloods), so there's nothing that says she was really Wielding it correctly or not. :\

Originally Posted by Smile

Only that can still be easily explained by the fact Roxas didn't know he could call the Keyblade back, as shown in his fight with Sora. So whether or not Riku and Xion truly are qualified to hold Roxas's Keyblade means a lot less than had Roxas knew he could call it back. He simply didn't, which could mean simply it stayed there because he didn't tell it to come back.

Sora knew he could call it back from Leon, rite?

Only Roxas and Sora are two parts of the same person so they share the qualification over the KK. :P

Still can't be one item in two places at one time. :\

[Grace Assassin]

Originally Posted by Igshar

And the whole Wield argument: Wielding is used differently than it is in normal language within Kingdom Hearts, in much the same way as Heart is used differently. Going by a dictionary definition, the Heart is just a life-sustaining organ, meaning Nobodies cannot exist, as one cannot live without a Heart.

There's a difference between canonical terminology and just plain old words.
Wielding is wielding, there's never been any intimation that it is otherwise.

There are certain properties of wielding unique to the Keyblade, just as there are attributes that make wielding some other weapon unique. In the end, it's all wielding.

Originally Posted by krexia

I'm not going to get into the details of the argument because I haven't read the other thread yet - but for the record, in Japanese they're usually literally called 'those chosen by the Keyblade', or sometimes 'Keyblade users'. So yeah, I'm not sure the English definition of 'wield' is all that relevant.

Originally Posted by Grace Assassin

use it- ie wield it.

Wield Synonym | Synonym of Wield and Antonym of Wield at Thesaurus.com

The act of using the Keyblade is the act of wielding it. Would you deem Jack a user because he can hold it? No, just as much as he is not considered a wielder.