The Chamber of Repose, The Chamber of Waking

[Grace Assassin]

(Days spoilers)
I was going to post this in my "Longest Theory" thread, as I felt I could tie this in, but it really deserves its own topic.

So. The Chamber of Repose and Waking. Two peas in a pod. Ebony and Ivory.
Right. We get that.
But, uh, what are they?

Let's start with the one we know more about- the Chamber of Repose (formerly the Room of Sleep).
Honestly, it doesn't take too much brain power to think of what it could be-

Originally Posted by SAR

If I explore Xehanort's heart with psychological test, I may be able to recall the past locked away within. My apprentice Even has also shown great interest in Xehanort's memories.

[...]

Spurred on by my youngest apprentice Ienzo, I constructed a massive laboratory in the basement of my castle.

Originally Posted by Xigbar

The "Room of Sleep"... the underground laboratory where we were studying the darkness within people's hearts, the place which Ansem ordered us to seal-away... The first thing Xemnas did when he got rid of our wise yet bothersome leader was to release the seal and make that room in the depths of the laboratory. After that he frequently went down there and I could hear him talking with someone. Isn't that odd? Xemnas is supposed to be in there alone.

Put two and two together. They were trying to perform tests on Xehanort in order to recover his lost memories, and Xemnas made the Chamber.
The obvious answer to what the Chamber of Repose is, then, is that it tries to recover lost or forgotten memories.

But... did Xehanort really lose his memories?
Nomura would not talk about the current condition of Xemnas' memories, but I think it's pretty obvious (considering his knowledge of Ven and Aqua) that he has some awareness of his past.

So he was either lying about the memory loss. Or. He regained the memories. Considering that he uses the Chamber of Repose quite frequently, I'm inclined toward the latter option.
That begs the question, though, of how he lost his memories.

And I think we can answer that with another question. Why are the other apprentices using the Chamber of Repose too?

Easy. They all must have lost memories. Obviously the other five didn't lose the memories of their identities, but there must be memories lost which are shared among them. What memories?
I think you see where I'm going with this- they lost memories of individual people. Like, say, Ven.
It's the classic KH scenario: however Ven (and Aqua, or whoever else) disappeared, it caused those who knew them to forget they ever existed.

On to the specifics. How exactly does the Chamber of Repose recover these lost, or rather forgotten (forgotten, but not lost, mind you) memories?

Examine the Chamber. Notice the Nobody chains everywhere.
I doubt those were painted on there for aesthetics. Rather, they're structures which can channel, you guessed it, the Organization's chain of memories. By drawing out these chains, the Chamber can delve into the deep recesses of their minds and pull out memories which were forgotten or locked away.
The memories that are pulled out can take on a corporeal form like they did in Castle Oblivion, albeit gradually (as prying out those deep memories must take some time). This is why we see Aqua's armor- Xemnas' memory is in a state of retrogression. First he'll retrieve the memory of her armor in the final battle, then of Aqua herself, and of all the little memories going back as long as he's met her.

A side note here. The idea that it's really Aqua's armor, I think, is hogwash. So does Xemnas sneak her armor in past the other apprentices (I didn't see him holding anything)? Oh, he just leaves it there for the others to see?

Yeah, moving on.
So where does the "Repose" come into play? It is as it sounds- the Organization members essentially go into a state of sleep here in order for the process to begin. Sleep and memories have been shown to be inextricably linked in KH (eg Roxas/Xion). Dreams can be memories or abstract representations of them.

But they're not quite "asleep" per se. I mean, Vexen said Xemnas was "sleeping," yet he seemed pretty wide awake to me. So it's no ordinary sleep. More of a... waking sleep, if you will. A dream made into reality (Like how Sora could find Roxas in the Station, which should have been nothing more than a dream, no?).
When Xigbar was listening in on Xemnas, I guess you could say he was sleep talking, lol.

Speaking of Xigbar, allow me to get sidetracked for a moment.
Xigbar says that he's "not so good in that place," meaning that he probably hadn't regained many memories at that point. But one memory I think we all know he has- Ven's stare. He may not even remember his name, but I think Xigbar isn't "so good" in the Chamber is because he was, dare I say it, scared to see what was behind that stare. To go further back and remember what made Ven look at him this way. So when he says "why does he always stare at me like that," he is also referring to the repeated attempts to get past this haunting memory- but that's all he gets (though I'm sure he finally did overcome this, as he was aware of TAV being better heroes than Sora).

Moving on to Chamber Numero Dos, Waking.
This one's a toughie.

We know that this chamber fits in with Xemnas' master plan, that it's the key to it actually. We also know that it goes hand in hand with the Chamber of Repose (though it was NOT made by Xemnas), and has been around... since before Castle Oblivion.

I think most of us believe that Castle Oblivion is MX's manor due to its motif and general MX-ish feel.
So, assume that to be true.
It's obvious that MX knew what he was doing when he chose this fine piece of real estate for his castle- he knew the "Chamber of Waking" was there.

But was it really a "Chamber"? If the chamber is a room in CO, and yet its origins stretch before the Castle existed... it wouldn't really be the Chamber that had the special properties, but the ground it resided on. In other words, the Chamber of Waking cultivates a special power based on where it resides.

What's so special about where it resides?
Well, the Crossroads (and I'm going to assume its the same one in BbS as it was in CoM, sans keyblades since MX kinda dug 'em all up. How it was fertilized in those ten years, YOU DECIDE, but it must have been damn good mulch in such a dump) is sort of the axis of the universe in KH, the place where all of the planes (or realms) meet. There's the road to light, the middle road between the two planes, and the road to darkness.

Hold up. Where does CO reside? According to Nomura, in the middle plane, but there's more to it. It's got it's own mo'fuckin road, for crying out loud.

And that road leads... to... what? For lack of a better term, oblivion (hence the name).

Yep. Definitely looks like "oblivion."

So CO may be situated in between light and darkness like Nothingness is- it's twilight in its alignment, but not explicitly "twilight." It is it's own thing, Nothingness/Oblivion.

And the Chamber comes from this oblivion. It's effect comes from this nothing. Something from nothing. Like the big bang.

At this point, let's get into a more taboo discussion. The axiology of the heart.
What is the heart? Where does it come from?

Nomura recently answered what a "heart" is in a Days Famitus interview (look it up, not really relevant to what I'm talking about though), so the very principle of a heart has been brought into question.
And with BbS being about origins (the keyblade, Xehanort, etc), it would seem fitting to include the heart on the list.

We know hearts come from KH and that they are inherently light. Going back to the big bang concept, let's say KH is god.
WHERE DID GOD COME FROM?
Don't give me that timeless horseshit, because a more viable answer is sitting right before you. Quite literally, NOTHING. Something from nothing.

The Chamber of Waking cultivates this power. It can (drum roll), create a heart.
You can read more about this in one of my previous theories: http://forums.khinsider.com/spoilers...el-namine.html
(The capacity to feel implies a heart. I'll leave you to decide on what that implies about Axel and his fate. I don't think Namine fits in here, and you'll see why.)
There's a catch though.

The Chamber of Repose, the Chamber of Waking, they go hand-in-hand (lol KH) remember?
Step one: Regain forgotten memories in CoR
Step two:?
Step three: Get heart in CoW
Step four: profit

Sorta.
So, why would CoW need you to have all forgotten/lost memories in order to create a new heart?
Look at all of the other memory-reflective walls in CO.

If Sora were to walk into CO with all memories in tact and, rather than spreading them out over the floors, they culminated into one entity, what would that being be? Well... himself really. A reflection of his own heart, the memories which give his heart form.

This is what the CoW does- it needs all memories the individual has experienced in order to create a new heart. This new heart is as tangible as the memories manifested in CO (they can be perceived, they exist in the strictest sense of the word), though it's more permanent.
This ties into my Replica=Unversed theory, you can figure it out.

Though, if you think this is just a huge load, need I remind you that:

Originally Posted by AR

This may be a step toward creating a heart from nothing.

And as for how it fits into Xemnas' plan. Wellll.... it's almost like he would only need the CoW, but not the KH of people's hearts. Being a resourceful person always with a back up plan (as we see in Days), I think his priority may have been in finding the CoW, though he knew it was unlikely and had resorted to creating a KH. In any case, becoming one with KH, he would gain power that he could not from the CoW, so it wasn't necessarily a "back up plan" but more like "part 2."

[Frozura]

I made a thread saying he lied, simple as that and they closed it D:< ....

[Smoofy]

Woah.

This seems all very well thought out, and seems very plausible (imo)

The only thing that needs figureing out is this step two correct? But I beleive there ins't enough info is there?

Your theories amaze me, and reading this made me look at KH in a different light!

[Eraser Rain]

When Xigbar was listening in on Xemnas, I guess you could say he was sleep talking, lol.

But he heard "another voice," which is why I think there's special meaning behind Aqua's armor...but I like the idea about digging into memories via the room.

[Ragnell 37]

Genius. I really, really like this theory. Even if it isn't true, (and something tells me some of your ideas about the CoW aren't) I still think it is brilliant. Well done.

I especially think what you said about the CoR is true. The part about Aqua's armor makes perfect sense, and builds on what CoM presented, just like past games have done. I'm just wondering how this could be explained in a future game. After all, Xemnas is dead in the present (and I doubt Sora currently gives a crap what he did in his free time), and BbS sure won't explain his motives. Oh well, maybe KH3 (or whatever the "next game" is) will find a way to tie it in.

[Memory Master]

Originally Posted by Ragnell 37

Genius. I really, really like this theory. Even if it isn't true, (and something tells me some of your ideas about the CoW aren't) I still think it is brilliant. Well done.

I especially think what you said about the CoR is true. The part about Aqua's armor makes perfect sense, and builds on what CoM presented, just like past games have done. I'm just wondering how this could be explained in a future game. After all, Xemnas is dead in the present (and I doubt Sora currently gives a crap what he did in his free time), and BbS sure won't explain his motives. Oh well, maybe KH3 (or whatever the "next game" is) will find a way to tie it in.

Xemnas became whole after KH2 so Xehanort will be back. (The young Xehanort will be back).

[Naximi]

I posted something like this on the Room of Sleep a while ago. I was pretty off, but the basic idea of using sleep to build up memories was used. It seemed like not that many people took a look at it though... :*( *proof*
http://forums.khinsider.com/future-k...revisited.html

[KingBlade]

Jesus fuckin Christ. How the fuck do you think of your shit? Its like you and Nomura's minds are aligned in the same thought process.

[Audo]

Originally Posted by Grace Assassin

Why are the other apprentices using the Chamber of Repose too?

Uh, where was it ever definitively stated that they ever used it?
Yes Xigbar said that he's "not so good" there, but, for all we know, that could just mean he felt uncomfortable being near the CoR/Laboratory. We don't know that he actually used the room. From what I gathered, the way he described it made it sound a lot more like it was only for Xemnas.

The memories that are pulled out can take on a corporeal form like they did in Castle Oblivion, albeit gradually (as prying out those deep memories must take some time).

This seems like a stretch.

So does Xemnas sneak her armor in past the other apprentices (I didn't see him holding anything)?

They do have this ability called "Dark Corridors" you know.

Oh, he just leaves it there for the others to see?

As I said, I don't think it is for anyone but Xemnas.

The Chamber of Waking cultivates this power. It can (drum roll), create a heart.

That was a huge jump. How you arrived to that conclusion didn't even make sense. It was a bunch of word play, that didn't use anything but pure speculation.

"CO leads to oblivion" because the Room mod shows that the path leads nowhere? Uh... how can you actually use that as proof for anything? It's a Room Mod, not all of the thing is detailed because it is only used for cutscene. That would be like me saying that doors in the Laboratory have this magic ability to be walked through just because you can in the Room Mod.

Though, if you think this is just a huge load, need I remind you that:

I still think it sounds like a huge load. Rather big stretch with no real evidence or proof to back it.
But then again, I think that for a lot of your theories.

Originally Posted by KingBlade

Jesus fuckin Christ. How the fuck do you think of your shit? Its like you and Nomura's minds are aligned in the same thought process.

Ugh. You must be kidding me.

[Heolstor]

I think the Chambers have something to do with Birth by Sleep.
It's probably something we couldn't even begin to be accurate about at this point.

[KingBlade]

Originally Posted by Audo

Ugh. You must be kidding me.

Now that I think about it that was a stupid thing to say though, the complex idea making shit kinda goes hand in hand.

[Seeshinamaru13]

Typically speculation annoys me but i find your theory to be quite intriguing. I'm sure that parts of it probably aren't correct, but i believe you are on the right path. This theory has just added to the hype i'm feeling for when bbs finally comes out.

Originally Posted by Audo

I still think it sounds like a huge load. Rather big stretch with no real evidence or proof to back it.
But then again, I think that for a lot of your theories.

If people had the evidence and proof to back it up... then there would be no point for these theories and speculations. IMO he has a great theory... better than a lot i've seen. Sure, he's made some assumptions but with the lack of information on the subject such assumptions are welcome.

[Audo]

Originally Posted by Seeshinamaru13

If people had the evidence and proof to back it up... then there would be no point for these theories and speculations.

Evidence and proof should be used to help back up a theory. Having proof/evidence =/= knowing the answer, it just means having something that would help support the theory beyond someone's pure speculation.

[Erauqs]

I like where you're going with this. I can't agree with the making a heart part, though. It just doesn't feel right. I wanna see where this theory goes with more information. I'll keep an eye out.

[8298906]

(no flam trying to prove point)
why would xemnas go through all of that to get memories when he has namine a memorie manipulating nobody to unlock his "lost" memories?