A Vessel of Three - BBS Theory

[ReverseUnversed]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but... this theory says that Vanitas contains the hearts of MX and Terra, right? I'm slightly confused in this one.

[Zion]

Originally Posted by ReverseUnversed

Correct me if I'm wrong, but... this theory says that Vanitas contains the hearts of MX and Terra, right? I'm slightly confused in this one.

I'm not saying Vanitas shares 2 hearts, what i'm talking about is a literal fusion. Think of it as a similar case on how Ansem SoD's darkness corroded the heart of Riku. When unleashing that darkness he became Ansem SoD, but maintained himself as Riku. That was a price to pay with the darkness that was in him. Lets say we have 2 this time corroding a heart, what would happen at this point? my guess is a fusion. The vessel (Vanitas) would become what a fusion would be between MX and Terra. And when Xehanort later on gave into the darkness in ATW's lab his heartless and nobody became a definition of the two being separated while still being tampered by mixed personalities of Vanitas. In this case we have Xemnas the nobody, who seems to have more of grasp (well vaguely on his past)

Spoilers

he sees ven, in xion

As for Ansem the SoD, you can very well see how much of MX is within him. And I've already elaborated the bit about him using the stance that mainly Riku uses, even when it's not Riku who was the one that was really fighting Sora at the time.

[ReverseUnversed]

Originally Posted by Zion

I'm not saying Vanitas shares 2 hearts, what i'm talking about is a literal fusion. Think of it as a similar case on how Ansem SoD's darkness corroded the heart of Riku. When unleashing that darkness he became Ansem SoD, but maintained himself as Riku. That was a price to pay with the darkness that was in him. Lets say we have 2 this time corroding a heart, what would happen at this point? my guess is a fusion. The vessel (Vanitas) would become what a fusion would be between MX and Terra. And when Xehanort later on gave into the darkness in ATW's lab his heartless and nobody became a definition of the two being separated while still being tampered by mixed personalities of Vanitas. In this case we have Xemnas the nobody, who seems to have more of grasp (well vaguely on his past)

Spoilers

he sees ven, in xion

As for Ansem the SoD, you can very well see how much of MX is within him. And I've already elaborated the bit about him using the stance that mainly Riku uses, even when it's not Riku who was the one that was really fighting Sora at the time.

So Vanitas is a fusion of Master Xehanort and Terra? Bizarre... but cool.

[Zion]

Originally Posted by ReverseUnversed

So Vanitas is a fusion of Master Xehanort and Terra? Bizarre... but cool.

Well yes basically. The one thing i question myself is how and why Vanitas would be the vessel, but i don't know what he is so, just as much as i don't know whether he is his own person or a part of MX........there are holes.

[Ragnell 37]

Hey, there's just one huge problem I see. Didn't Riku use the T stance before he was possessed by Ansem? Even in the beginning of the game, before he turned to darkness. So if Vanitas had some effect on Riku, it had to be before Riku turned to darkness (during BbS most likely). I still maintain that Vanitas isn't Xehanort, as nothing so far connects the two besides Riku's outfit. And that could easily be explained as Xehanort remembering that his apprentice wore that outfit in the past, and making his new vessel wear it as well.

It could happen, don't get me wrong, but just about anything could happen in BbS, and there's just very little evidence for or against this.

But you did bring up a very interesting point. Riku lost his keyblade when he turned to darkness, and MX says that those who submit to darkness aren't qualified to wield the keyblade. And when Riku takes on Ansem's form, he never uses the Way to Dawn. So maybe you can't use a keyblade if you're controlled by darkness. But this does leave to question whether Vanitas is dark, since he's always been shown with a keyblade. And this could explain why Xehanort can't use a keyblade: because MX gave in to darkness and lost his keyblade.

[Zion]

Originally Posted by Ragnell 37

Hey, there's just one huge problem I see. Didn't Riku use the T stance before he was possessed by Ansem? Even in the beginning of the game, before he turned to darkness. So if Vanitas had some effect on Riku, it had to be before Riku turned to darkness (during BbS most likely). I still maintain that Vanitas isn't Xehanort, as nothing so far connects the two besides Riku's outfit. And that could easily be explained as Xehanort remembering that his apprentice wore that outfit in the past, and making his new vessel wear it as well.

It could happen, don't get me wrong, but just about anything could happen in BbS, and there's just very little evidence for or against this.

That's not the point that i was making. I understand that Riku used the stance before he was possessed by Ansem SoD, but the problem is that when he was possessed by Ansem SoD, the fighting stance didn't change, and the only other person besides Riku we've seen use that stance is Vanitas.

Plus Riku acquired the dark suit, before he was possessed by Ansem Sod...

Originally Posted by Ragnell 37

But you did bring up a very interesting point. Riku lost his keyblade when he turned to darkness, and MX says that those who submit to darkness aren't qualified to wield the keyblade. And when Riku takes on Ansem's form, he never uses the Way to Dawn. So maybe you can't use a keyblade if you're controlled by darkness. But this does leave to question whether Vanitas is dark, since he's always been shown with a keyblade. And this could explain why Xehanort can't use a keyblade: because MX gave in to darkness and lost his keyblade.

That can be implied, perhaps there are a number of reasons why the keyblade couldn't be presented. Darkness does shun one from the use of the keyblade, but Riku has managed to go beyond that point when following a path to light once more. The Xehanort we know has no use for light upon himself in any mean. He is obsessed with Dakrness, Anger, and Hatred. It seems to be all that he can recall within himself.

[KeybladeLegacy5]

Originally Posted by Zion

That can be implied, perhaps there are a number of reasons why the keyblade couldn't be presented. Darkness does shun one from the use of the keyblade, but Riku has managed to go beyond that point when following a path to light once more. The Xehanort we know has no use for light upon himself in any mean. He is obsessed with Dakrness, Anger, and Hatred. It seems to be all that he can recall within himself.

this is where i believe the fact that van is a puppet/shell mirroring ven so that is why he can sill weild

[_EX]

I liked the whole "T stance" part of it. If someone could remember what stance Riku used in Destiny Island when Sora fought him with swords and it turned out to be some other stance then I will be really convinced.

[Igshar]

A few minor comments I need to make...

I like the whole thing and it makes sense. IF the KH2 Final Mix trailer actually is canonically a part of the story (I see no reason why it wouldn't be), Aqua is kneeling, holding a frozen Ventus while Terra rushes off to face off with Master Xehanort AND Apprentice Vanitas at once, under the Blue Moon that is assumed to be Kingdom Hearts. I would say it's definitely not a stretch to say that Xehanort intended to use the power of KH to assume a new level of power/existence, possibly using Terra, Aqua, and Ventus to assist in its creation as well.

That all being said, I'd say it's also not so much of a stretch to say that Terra, like Riku at the end of Days, gave into the Darkness at the end there to take on both Master Xehanort and his Apprentice and WIN the fight. With Xehanort's final gasp, he could have called the powers of Kingdom Hearts at the time of Terra approaching to strike him down. Vanitas could have leaped in the way to protect his Master~

Kingdom Hearts would then most likely affect all three of them, as their proximity was so great. All three seem to walk the line of Darkness, so saying that a fusion of all three gave in completely to the Darkness, thus losing its ability to Wield would be far from a stretch.

Just felt like adding that ^ as you seemed to be having a bit of trouble coming up with a reason for the three of them being in one place.

The resulting explosion could also have had a very similar effect to KH2. Aqua could have expended her power defending Ventus from the blast, while Terra was more focused on his fight to realize the danger. Aqua is destroyed because of Terra's selfishness, hence his quite visible sense of regret when, as Xemnas, he speaks with Aqua's Armor.

With all of this, Ventus would have survived and been alone after this, so him asking someone to erase him would make perfect sense. Perhaps he was then placed within Sora so that he could one day fight against Terra's (now Xehanort's) plans and save the world once more. <3

Destiny and all that jazz.


As for the problems with it, I'm hard-pressed to find many at all. Oh~ I'm thinking the KH we see in that video is the same as the one we see in KH2, as the one behind the door in KH1 is most definitely the Heart of all Worlds, especially considering that within all of that Darkness, there IS indeed Light. It shines behind the King. :3

I had something else to comment, but forgot what it was, sorry. x.x


AND: Riku on Destiny Islands before giving in to Darkness does NOT use that stance.

YouTube - KH1_LV2 Sora vs Riku (Destiny Islands) No Damage

[Zion]

Originally Posted by _EX

I liked the whole "T stance" part of it. If someone could remember what stance Riku used in Destiny Island when Sora fought him with swords and it turned out to be some other stance then I will be really convinced.

Riku didn't use the stance when they fought eachother on Destiny's island, but in the first battle at Hollow Bastion he only barely uses it. It wasn't until Asnem SoD possessed Riku where the stance became more evident, and in fact it was as if Ansem SoD was very well taught to handle a sword.

Destiny's island, no stance



Hollow Bastion first battle, little evident



Edit: thanx Igshar, LOL. Although i think the scene with Ventus asking to Erase himself was before the actual event of the Keyblade Graveyard Battle with MX and Vanitas, because the shadow that is seen on the ground looks a lot like Aquas. Of course who knows when that actual scene occurred

[_EX]

Originally Posted by Igshar;4549681


AND: Riku on Destiny Islands before giving in to Darkness does NOT use that stance.

[URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twmbQlCkktw"

YouTube - KH1_LV2 Sora vs Riku (Destiny Islands) No Damage[/url]

Sweet Im all in on this theory then.

[Zion]

Originally Posted by _EX

Sweet Im all in on this theory then.

well then yay for new recruits, LOL.

[Key of Valor]

Originally Posted by Igshar

AND: Riku on Destiny Islands before giving in to Darkness does NOT use that stance.

YouTube - KH1_LV2 Sora vs Riku (Destiny Islands) No Damage

I noticed that the other day as well...

However, Re:CoM seems to imply that Riku used to use that stance when both Riku and Sora fought as children:

YouTube - Kingdom Hearts Re:Chain of Memories English - Part 52 - Boss Riku Replica #2 (Proud Mode/No Damage)

Then again, one could question how accurate that memory actually is, especially when considering that Sora is in Castle Oblivion which is known for messed up memories.

[Igshar]

Originally Posted by Key of Valor

I noticed that the other day as well...

However, Re:CoM seems to imply that Riku used to use that stance when both Riku and Sora fought as children:

YouTube - Kingdom Hearts Re:Chain of Memories English - Part 52 - Boss Riku Replica #2 (Proud Mode/No Damage)

Then again, one could question how accurate that memory actually is, especially when considering that Sora is in Castle Oblivion which is known for messed up memories.

Castle Oblivion doesn't mess with memories; Namine does. That's first. Second, as you said, you can't rely on any memories shown by anyone in Chain of Memories. There's nothing saying what is and is not true in their Memories at any point through the game, due to Namine playing with Hearts. :\

I would take the actual fights between Sora and Riku on the island in KH1 as more correct than a memory of Sora's in Re:CoM. *shrugs* Maybe that's just me. If we see Riku use the stance in BbS on the Island, I'd say this theory loses a small shred of credibility, though by that time, we'd know if it's true or not lawl.

[Zion]

Originally Posted by Igshar

Castle Oblivion doesn't mess with memories; Namine does. That's first. Second, as you said, you can't rely on any memories shown by anyone in Chain of Memories. There's nothing saying what is and is not true in their Memories at any point through the game, due to Namine playing with Hearts. :\

I would take the actual fights between Sora and Riku on the island in KH1 as more correct than a memory of Sora's in Re:CoM. *shrugs* Maybe that's just me. If we see Riku use the stance in BbS on the Island, I'd say this theory loses a small shred of credibility, though by that time, we'd know if it's true or not lawl.

Yeah pretty much. I have hopes for this theory as i could see it being somewhat right on point. But if not, it was still a good try :>

as far as that, there hasn't been much disproving in this theory, so i'm led to believe that some members have almost nothing to really disprove what was presented. I find that to be a good thing, although it makes things a little dull.