The Longest and Most Controversial Theory Thread on KHI Ever

[goldpanner]

Originally Posted by Grace Assasin

Still, it's not impossible.
I mean, I talked about "light" memories as well. Maybe Ven made a "light" Unversed (seeing as how Roxas can use light). But... that wouldn't really make sense with the negative emotions.

Maybe Ven didn't make a light unversed so much as, he had a lot of light in him, so some of that light was already transfered into his memory-sucking unversed before he got erased/whatever happened to him?

Honestly, I did think about that. At first I thought about the idea of Axel being an Unversed, which in turn made me wonder about the entire Organization. That's ridiculous though.
Nothing about any of the other members besides Xemnas and Roxas being "Special Nobodies."

When I think about it... all the human shaped nobodies are kind of special, aren't they. They have eyes, for one, which was important to your theory. But then again, it was said that unversed aren't meant to be around anymore, and thirteen is a big number. I mean, I could kind of understand about the original six and roxas, because weird shit happened to them. But numbers seven through twelve seemed to have done it randomly on their own, which is stretching it...

Anyway, I think Nomura has pretty much said your theory to be true when he acted all evasive about Roxas having a heart.

[Chrono Mizaki]

And conversely there are plenty of people bitching about being sick of the forms of Xehanort in each game.
It could go either way, really.

I know I am. I'm in support of this theory without this bit. But with this bit, it makes me support the theory even more as I believe Xehanort did his bit and should be left as a person that people still remember [and fear] as he could still influence anyone to this day frpm the grave. Like this unknown person who could've spawned Master Xehanort.

Which is the main reason I do not support this segment of your theory. How I see it, removing Xehanort as the main antagonist would be just about the same as removing Sora as the main protagonist.

Then you have a strange way of seeing things. All I can say is that Sora nor Xehanort defines Kingdom Hearts. If there's a lack of Xehanort in upcoming KH games that's based after II, then all support to them. They could use that special time to come up with a superior villain instead of driving an character like Xehanort with a excellent backstory and motive... being driven into the ground.

I don't care. KH =/= Xehanort or Sora.

[Zeagal]

Well reading that had to be one of the most fun experiences I've had here. I was slightly disappointed from your Roxas and Namine birth section though. It was those questions at the end you couldn't quite answer that did it, but the rest of it is all good. It was amazing how well it all tied together and I would believe and expect at least parts of this to be true even though I'm still somewhat hoping for something to happen with the light emotions you know since Unversed grow out of the negative ones. There's just so many angles on this though that can make it hard to digest in a textual format because you have this all tieing into Keyblades most likely and then there's the Beings with Hearts of Pure Light and so on. Just thanks. That's about all that's left to say...Thanks.

Edit: one more thing actually, I found it a bit odd you avoided explaining the possibility of MX being the Unverse of MTAV. Oh and I also loved where you said that if your theory is true that the future antagonist would not be Xehanort. I just can't figure out who it might be...since Xehanort is in a way the Unversed of an Unversed....so MTAV?

[Thrazakul]

A well-written theory with enough evidence to almost tempt me to accept this as truth. I think our build-up of theories here in the forums constantly allows us to slowly draw ourselves ever closer to the truth. A few questions remain unanswered: MX's motive and Kingdom Hearts(You still can't disregard Kingdom Hearts. It was absent in your theory. But then, if your theory is correct, then Kingdom Hearts would not be required.)

Very well-written regarding the part of DiZ. Interestingly enough, the D and the Z of 'DiZ' are the alphabetical opposites of W and A respectively. And the W and A are part of AtW from Ansem the Wise. D is the fourth letter from the beginning of the Alphabet and W is the fourth letter from the ending of the Alphabet. A is the first letter of the Alphabet and Z is the last. See where I'm going with this? So basically, if you reverse 'AtW,' reverse the first and last letter, and take out the t and put in an i, you get 'DiZ.' Quite interesting, I think. All the more to support your theory, or at least part of it.

Originally Posted by OmniChaos

Which is the main reason I do not support this segment of your theory. How I see it, removing Xehanort as the main antagonist would be just about the same as removing Sora as the main protagonist.

Which is exactly why Sora's not the main character in BBS, right?

[Grace Assassin]

Originally Posted by Zeagal

Well reading that had to be one of the most fun experiences I've had here. I was slightly disappointed from your Roxas and Namine birth section though.

I know, it leaves a lot to be desired. I felt that trying to answer those questions, though, would just be my own rationalization. I believe Key of Valor had some reasonable ideas about, for instance, why Namine ages (under the assumption that she was made from Sora's body and soul), but that's neither here nor there.

Originally Posted by Zeagal

Edit: one more thing actually, I found it a bit odd you avoided explaining the possibility of MX being the Unverse of MTAV. Oh and I also loved where you said that if your theory is true that the future antagonist would not be Xehanort. I just can't figure out who it might be...since Xehanort is in a way the Unversed of an Unversed....so MTAV?

Well, I had mentioned the possibility of it being MTAV in my last topic and felt there wasn't much more to say on the matter. Other than knowing he exists, we know absolutely nothing about MTAV.

Plus, I'm leaving it open to other possibilities as well. If the theory is right, MX could be the Unversed of someone we don't even know about.

Still, if we see MTAV appear at the beginning of BbS and he has some sort of uncanny resemblance to MX, well, there we go.

Originally Posted by Thrazakul

A well-written theory with enough evidence to almost tempt me to accept this as truth. I think our build-up of theories here in the forums constantly allows us to slowly draw ourselves ever closer to the truth. A few questions remain unanswered: MX's motive and Kingdom Hearts(You still can't disregard Kingdom Hearts. It was absent in your theory. But then, if your theory is correct, then Kingdom Hearts would not be required.)

You guys are really flattering me more than I ought to be, and I appreciate the positive feedback, but don't forget to keep a skeptical eye on the matter.

As for Kingdom Hearts, there's the whole point about MX wanting a real heart.
Funny you should mention that, though, because I was thinking about your Original Kingdom Hearts theory.
I think it fits better as an explanation of why the Heartless/Nobodies come along.

Originally Posted by Thrazakul

Very well-written regarding the part of DiZ. Interestingly enough, the D and the Z of 'DiZ' are the alphabetical opposites of W and A respectively. And the W and A are part of AtW from Ansem the Wise. D is the fourth letter from the beginning of the Alphabet and W is the fourth letter from the ending of the Alphabet. A is the first letter of the Alphabet and Z is the last. See where I'm going with this? So basically, if you reverse 'AtW,' reverse the first and last letter, and take out the t and put in an i, you get 'DiZ.' Quite interesting, I think. All the more to support your theory, or at least part of it.

Interesting factoid.
Though I believe it was confirmed that "DiZ" was originally derived from "Disney."
Hard to pass up as a coincidence nonetheless.

[Thrazakul]

Originally Posted by Grace Assassin

As for Kingdom Hearts, there's the whole point about MX wanting a real heart.
Funny you should mention that, though, because I was thinking about your Original Kingdom Hearts theory.
I think it fits better as an explanation of why the Heartless/Nobodies come along.

Ah, yes. It could very well be the reason they do come along. Only thing I'm trying to figure out is why and how Kingdom Hearts splits...maybe something to do with MX. But hey, who's to say that both of our theories can't be right? As far as I know, this theory of yours(You need to come up with a better name for it though lol) does not contradict my Original Kingdom Hearts theory. In fact, if we were to combine both of our theories together, I'm sure it would open new pathways to even more answers and theories, based on the most elite knowledge of the Kingdom Hearts series.

Originally Posted by Grace Assassin

Interesting factoid.
Though I believe it was confirmed that "DiZ" was originally derived from "Disney."
Hard to pass up as a coincidence nonetheless.

I see, I was under the influence that the Disney reference was already used for Yen Sid, but I suppose I can't rule that out as a possibility. Concerning names though, it's gotten all too common to have hidden meanings in names, especially concerning Ansem the Wise and Xehanort.

Oh, before I forget:



For all your hard work and effort to make this theory sound very plausible!

[Ventux]

This is impressive, but frankly, we lack substancial information about the game which will only be shown once it's released. Hence why I don't make or deeply discuss theories.
There could be plenty of unknown elements or factors.
That said, there is probably some truth to this theory.

[Zeagal]

Originally Posted by Grace Assassin

I know, it leaves a lot to be desired. I felt that trying to answer those questions, though, would just be my own rationalization. I believe Key of Valor had some reasonable ideas about, for instance, why Namine ages (under the assumption that she was made from Sora's body and soul), but that's neither here nor there.

That's kind of where convenience comes into play when holding it up to the more widely believed idea that Namine is scraps. The reason she can age makes sense when you see that Kairi is living on as a whole being seemingly in sync with Namine's own growth. I suppose also there could be a combination of your idea and the widely accepted one. I mean Namine doesn't need to have Sora's body and soul to be made from it. Did you already say something about that? I'm sorry if you did in your op, it's just...so long.

Heeeyyyy I just noticed. This theory doesn't cause much friction with what I had come up with sort of...a while ago. Just another good thing about it.

[Abbot]

Originally Posted by Grace Assassin

Interesting factoid.
Though I believe it was confirmed that "DiZ" was originally derived from "Disney."
Hard to pass up as a coincidence nonetheless.

I thought it was confirmed to be an acronym for 'Darkness in Zero'.

Cause, y'know. He was banished to a world of nothing, Zero, and was left with Hate and Anger, and Revenge. Darkness. Dark memories? It could actually work for your theory. Kind of.

[White Mushroom]

wow that no matter how many times i read it blows me away. I love it!

[Grace Assassin]

Originally Posted by Thrazakul

As far as I know, this theory of yours(You need to come up with a better name for it though lol) does not contradict my Original Kingdom Hearts theory. In fact, if we were to combine both of our theories together, I'm sure it would open new pathways to even more answers and theories, based on the most elite knowledge of the Kingdom Hearts series.

Yes, they can work together, but they're two different theories. As I said in the op, I'm not concerned with why the Unversed disappear so much as I am with what they are. They could disappear for any number of reasons which don't necessarily have to connect to what they are (such as your idea of KH splitting).

If you or anyone else wants to use the ideas presented in this thread to further your own thoughts or theories, though, by all means go ahead.

Originally Posted by Zeagal

I mean Namine doesn't need to have Sora's body and soul to be made from it. Did you already say something about that? I'm sorry if you did in your op, it's just...so long.

Well this is where it gets technical.

A Nobody is not literally comprised of the same vessel as their original.
We cannot say, for example, that Axel = Lea's body and soul (though most say that for convenience's sake).

Think of it like a chemical equation.
Sodium Chloride, for example, is a by-product in some chemical reactions (like the by-product of a left over body and soul becoming a Nobody).
But you don't say that Na + Cl = NaCl in the sense that (Na +Cl) and (NaCl) are the same thing. (Na + Cl) becomes (NaCl), it's a one way equation. NaCl, as a new chemical compound, has entirely different properties than a homogeneous mixture of Na and Cl.

Similarly, the leftover body and soul become a Nobody. We know that this is true because a body and soul in themselves are considered existent, yet as a Nobody they are non-existent. Plus, we can see they're not the same thing from the physical alterations the Nobody has when compared to the original body/soul.

So Namine was born as a Nobody because Sora's body and soul went into the process as the components needed, but you can't simply say Namine=Sora's body and soul.

She, like any Nobody, was born via the body and soul.
And in that respect I guess you could still argue that the reason why she ages is because her original self is still around.

Originally Posted by Abbot

I thought it was confirmed to be an acronym for 'Darkness in Zero'.

Cause, y'know. He was banished to a world of nothing, Zero, and was left with Hate and Anger, and Revenge. Darkness. Dark memories? It could actually work for your theory. Kind of.

It was. The origin of "DiZ" was to fit a phonetic "Disney" reference in as a name, and it came through the whole "Darkness in Zero" thing.

[OmniChaos]

Originally Posted by Grace Assassin

I actually thought people would have a hard time thinking "No Heart" and "Another" applied to MX.

Personally, once we found out what a Replica was, I felt it was rather obvious.

It might not be for the same reason (as my theory says) but "No Heart" and "Another" must have their significance for both men.

Perhaps the significance of "No Heart" to Xehanort could be in the sense that he acts like he doesn't have a heart. Kinda like he doesn't feel emotions toward the subjects he experiments on. Like "heartless" or such. As for "Another", I wouldn't be surprised if it meant "another Xehanort".

Hm?

That XH isn't a Heartless.

So what is it exactly that you have a problem with here? That, because Xehanort's Heartless is actually memories, then it would not resort to a state of suspension when defeated (and thus Xemnas, when defeated, would not return to his original self)?

Pretty much. You can say it doesn't have to happen, but, for me, if it didn't, it'd be a pretty big let down.

Because that's exactly what I'm saying. You seem to be under the impression that Xemnas and Xehanort's Heartless have to recombine. Not in this case. That is something that (like the idea of Roxas automatically being Sora's body and soul) people take for granted without scrutinizing.

I am aware it doesn't have to happen. Like I said, if it didn't, it'd be a let down for me.

Well, where else would the memories go of a vanquished Unversed than back to the original? That is, MX's memories, released from Riku's heart, went back to whoever the original of MX was.

Which would bring up the question of whether or not the original MX was good.

Look at the DS. He splits out of MX (and is a mirror image) and turns into a dark being. Like, you know, a reflection of MX's inner darkness.

However, one could question if the splitting of DS from MX was completely canon or if it simply is hinting at something. Like maybe DS originally came from MX, but that he is not necessarily able to fuse and split with him whenever he chooses.

And conversely there are plenty of people bitching about being sick of the forms of Xehanort in each game.
It could go either way, really.

Which I kinda find disappointing, as not many of those people bitching about Xehanort are also bitching about Sora. =/

One very real possibility in my theory is the original of MX... whoever that is. So, in a sense, the main antagonist would be connected to Xehanort.

Or possibly just MX, especially if he is the one who leads to the creation of the current Xehanort.

Originally Posted by Chrono Mizaki

If there's a lack of Xehanort in upcoming KH games that's based after II, then all support to them.

Well hell, then why stop at Xehanort? Why not replace Sora?

Originally Posted by Thrazakul

Which is exactly why Sora's not the main character in BBS, right?

Hurr Durr. I was talking about the series in general.

[RelixBBS]

Personally I like this theory a lot, it had a lot of evidence to back up its credibility. The part that I admired the most out of the whole thing was the Apprentice Xehanort being the Unversed of Terra. I even posted a similar theory on this a think a week ago but I wasn't able to fit Xehanort's memory loss into it, but you covered that quite well.

My Terra having an Unversed Theory <--- That's it if you even have a chance to look at it.

The part about Roxas is a little shaky but not shaky enough to be ruled out as a possibility.
I also liked the Repliku part of your theory because, Repliku was one of my favorite characters in KH history and I strongly believed he was not simply a replica and nothing more but an Unversed. Thanks for posting this thread.

[Grace Assassin]

Originally Posted by OmniChaos

Perhaps the significance of "No Heart" to Xehanort could be in the sense that he acts like he doesn't have a heart. Kinda like he doesn't feel emotions toward the subjects he experiments on. Like "heartless" or such. As for "Another", I wouldn't be surprised if it meant "another Xehanort".

"Another Another"
ehh.

Originally Posted by OmniChaos

That XH isn't a Heartless.

I don't recall people bringing that up.

Originally Posted by OmniChaos

Pretty much. You can say it doesn't have to happen, but, for me, if it didn't, it'd be a pretty big let down.
I am aware it doesn't have to happen. Like I said, if it didn't, it'd be a let down for me.

┐('～`；)┌

You'd like it to happen, but there's not much to do or say about that.

Originally Posted by OmniChaos

Which would bring up the question of whether or not the original MX was good.

And considering how MX's own allegiance has been brought to question, that would logically follow.

Originally Posted by OmniChaos

However, one could question if the splitting of DS from MX was completely canon or if it simply is hinting at something. Like maybe DS originally came from MX, but that he is not necessarily able to fuse and split with him whenever he chooses.

If it was hinting at something, how would it not be canon? You mean because it was only shown in a "concept video"?

The only thing that has been confirmed to be removed are SRM's keyblades. Other than that (and the revision of MX's skin tone), there's nothing to suggest anything has or hasn't been removed/modified/whatever. So saying that a detail may not actually make it into the game is utterly pointless. There's no reason why we can't use said details in our theorizing though.

Originally Posted by OmniChaos

Which I kinda find disappointing, as not many of those people bitching about Xehanort are also bitching about Sora. =/

Probably because Nomura never said anything about Kingdom Hearts being Xehanort's story.

Originally Posted by OmniChaos

Or possibly just MX, especially if he is the one who leads to the creation of the current Xehanort.

The main villain of BbS, yes, but I doubt he'd be the main antagonist for the entire series.
He's introduced in BbS and he'll be old news by the time of KH3.

[Chrono Mizaki]

Well hell, then why stop at Xehanort? Why not replace Sora?

Because Xehanort does his role well as a 'manipulator from the grave'. He can still influence, no matter what. It would be best to bring in a new character who was influenced, direct or undirect, by Xehanort. If he's the so-called catalyst that brought the heartless and nobodies, then who knows... that in those 9 years, he may have warped someone.

That's why I love Xehanort as a character. Because he could've done a lot of things in 9 years.

As for Sora, I wouldn't mind if he got replaced. But he's not in a situation that almost replicates Death. I know someone will say "Xehanort has not died", but bringing him back would be a 'cheap revival'. Look at Maleficent, she's an example that Xehanort could follow. Not as a bumbling villain, but as a cliched, stereotypical villain who doesn't know when to give up and stop embarrassing himself.