Organization Members Original Self

[Zeagal]

Originally Posted by Pratiko

Mmm, how to explain. Apprentice Xehanort didn't loose his sense of self when he became a HEARTLESS, right? But, he changed his name for the lulz. But he's actually the same person, with the same wicked mind, the same goals, etc... get my point?

Yes, but you can hardly call them the same. SoD was obviously different than Apprentice Xehanort.

[Axelshamaru]

Oh I thought you meant he was MX apprentice.

[Pratiko]

Originally Posted by Zeagal

Yes, but you can hardly call them the same. SoD was obviously different than Apprentice Xehanort.

In appeareance, yes, in counciousness, they're the same. Like, Riku possesed in KH2 and Riku after being possesed in KH2. The same person, right?

Oh I thought you meant he was MX apprentice.

That'd be lame =/.

[Axelshamaru]

Oh I thought you meant he was confirmed to be MX apprentice.

[Zeagal]

Originally Posted by Pratiko

In appeareance, yes, in counciousness, they're the same. Like, Riku possesed in KH2 and Riku after being possesed in KH2. The same person, right?

Not really. Going from what we've been shown. The apprentice is different in personality than SoD. There was obviously a shift. I suppose in theory he should be the same but he isn't and can't be considered the somebody since he's not. The somebody is Apprentice Xehanort, whole, with a heart, body, and soul.

[Araliya]

Xehanort, as a whole being, is basically confirmed to be coming back.
Axel, as a whole being, is more than likely to be coming back.

The rest of the Organization may very well be whole now, if Sora defeated their corresponding Heartless prior to defeating them, but whether or not they'll show up is debatable.

[Pratiko]

Originally Posted by Zeagal

Not really. Going from what we've been shown. The apprentice is different in personality than SoD. There was obviously a shift. I suppose in theory he should be the same but he isn't and can't be considered the somebody since he's not. The somebody is Apprentice Xehanort, whole, with a heart, body, and soul.

Um, you only saw 10 seconds of his personality. And at that point, he hand't figured like, nothing about Darkness, they were just starting with the experiments, so you can't confirm that =/.

[Araliya]

Regardless, the Somebody is the whole being. It is not the Heartless/heart. :/ That's just what it is, the heart.

[Zeagal]

Originally Posted by Pratiko

Um, you only saw 10 seconds of his personality. And at that point, he hand't figured like, nothing about Darkness, they were just starting with the experiments, so you can't confirm that =/.

Well you can't confirm it otherwise, but that's not the point. Technically if he was in the same state as Sora and was just a heart with a sense of self, then he was personality wise the somebody of Xemnas, but that's if he was like Sora.

[Pratiko]

Originally Posted by Zeagal

Well you can't confirm it otherwise, but that's not the point. Technically if he was in the same state as Sora and was just a heart with a sense of self, then he was personality wise the somebody of Xemnas, but that's if he was like Sora.

Sora became a Heartless, but then got his sense of self back.
Xehanort became a Heartless, but kept his sense of self.

Almost the same, I know, this is all assumption of facts. Nomura could always have a way to counter this.

[Zeagal]

Originally Posted by Pratiko

Sora became a Heartless, but then got his sense of self back.
Xehanort became a Heartless, but kept his sense of self.

Almost the same, I know, this is all assumption of facts. Nomura could always have a way to counter this.

Well going by the fact he retained a sense of self by means other than that of Sora you can't really say he was the existance of a heart. Yes I know heartless are the heart, but there's still a level of corruption that Sora didn't have.

[Audo]

Originally Posted by Pratiko

Xemnas' somebody was alive and running until he was killed by Sora and company. Roxas' somebody, Sora, is alive, unlocking doors in Castle Oblivion.

Uh, no in both case.
Xehanort's Heartless was what was running around, not his Somebody.
Similar can be said for Sora.

Originally Posted by Pratiko

Well, he wasn't just his Heartless. Xehanort the Apprentice was the Somebody, right? So, he kept experimenting and BAM, he became a Heartless, BUT he didn't loose his sense of self. Kinda what happens with Sora. So, in a way, Ansem SoD is Xemnas' somebody, but having only a Heart.

No. He's still technically a Heartless, and he is not a somebody. Somebody = full being.

Originally Posted by Araliya

Xehanort, as a whole being, is basically confirmed to be coming back.
Axel, as a whole being, is more than likely to be coming back.

The rest of the Organization may very well be whole now, if Sora defeated their corresponding Heartless prior to defeating them, but whether or not they'll show up is debatable.

Even if Sora defeated their Heartless after defeating them, they could still be whole.

[Pratiko]

Originally Posted by Zeagal

Well going by the fact he retained a sense of self by means other than that of Sora you can't really say he was the existance of a heart. Yes I know heartless are the heart, but there's still a level of corruption that Sora didn't have.

More like, Xehanort gave into the Darkness, while Sora freed his Heart by himself?

@ Audo

mm what I'm trying to say, is that Xemnas Somebody and Heartless are the same person, while having different... materials? lol, I know SoD is just a Heart running around.

[Araliya]

Originally Posted by Audo

Even if Sora defeated their Heartless after defeating them, they could still be whole.

Oh yeah.

But that all depends on whether or not out of all of those Heartless he defeated, if any of them were the corresponding Heartless. It'd be ridiculous if it weren't, but then again, there were a ridiculous number of Heartless. :/

[Audo]

Originally Posted by Pratiko

mm what I'm trying to say, is that Xemnas Somebody and Heartless are the same person

Except that they're not.