Expanded Version of Unbirth Theory - Page 2

Grass · June 8th, 2009, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Memory Master

I can't tell you why Sora would have remained asleep had he never of regained memories. It's a major SPOILER. I can tell you via PM if you want to spoil yourself.

I know why Sora wouldn't have woken up, but that's irrelevant. The point is that the memory loss is not what made him go to sleep in the first place.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Memory Master

Now Marluxia said Sora's heart would collapse if Namine uprooted the memories she planted in Sora's heart. He never mentioned anything about Sora loosing all his memories. The heart only collapses when memories are crushed or uprooted.

We don't know what happens when somone looses all memories for good leaving the heart empty. There has never been a case where this has happened. So it's possible as my theory says that when one has no memories they become an unbirth

Quote:

Originally Posted by Re:CoM

Marluxia: Namine, erase Sora's memories.
Namine: But if I do that...
Marluxia: That's right. Sora's heart will be destroyed. I'd rather have preferred him unmarred, but he can be rebuilt -more to my liking with time.
[...]
Marluxia: You ignorant fool. If Namine uses her powers to erase your memories, you'll be nothing but an empty shell. Your heart will no longer be able to feel or care.

By having your memories erased, you are loosing your memories.

Memory Master · June 8th, 2009, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3-D

so how are the memories taken out?

I believe that MX may have forced subjects to have their memories taken out. How MX did that I do not know. I also believe he may have started to make artificial unbirths too similar to how Xehanort could make artificial heartless.

EDIT: But Namine said she could'nt destroy memories. Sora still had all his memories and so did RR.

3-D · June 8th, 2009, 10:15 PM

so when MX was out of the picture, the unbirth process stopped, and thats why there are no more of them?

Memory Master · June 8th, 2009, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3-D

so when MX was out of the picture, the unbirth process stopped, and thats why there are no more of them?

It could be. But I am not saying that it is.

Grass · June 8th, 2009, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Memory Master

EDIT: But Namine said she could'nt destroy memories. Sora still had all his memories and so did RR.

Yeah... because she never completely erased Sora's memories.

You seem to be jumping around with your definition of what must happen to memories for an Unbirth to be created. Lost, erased, destroyed, what exactly are you trying to say? Because I've offered evidence to the contrary one way or another yet you seem to take synonyms of various words to try and keep the theory's validity.

blue490246 · June 8th, 2009, 10:50 PM

one thing i want to get straight is if heartless and nobodies obtain a heart from someone, does that mean that they complete their existence and become full beings? cuz if thats the case, that wud mean if Unbirths were able to obtain memories, according to your theory, then they would become complete beings...

perhaps the reason why there are no more Unbirths is because MX was able to achieve Kingdom Hearts (assuming that MX was not stopped after the Secret Ending from KH2FM), and Kingdom Hearts fulfilled all of the Unbirths by giving them their memories... and taking the hypothesis above, i guess theyd turn into humans..? but i highly doubt MX used Kingdom Hearts for that reason, maybe he want to spread darkness and split the Unbirths into the Heartless and the Nobodies...

3-D · June 8th, 2009, 10:57 PM

No, heartless need a body and soul to become whole

Memory Master · June 8th, 2009, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grace Assassin

Yeah... because she never completely erased Sora's memories.

You seem to be jumping around with your definition of what must happen to memories for an Unbirth to be created. Lost, erased, destroyed, what exactly are you trying to say? Because I've offered evidence to the contrary one way or another yet you seem to take synonyms of various words to try and keep the theory's validity.

Let me make this as clear as I can. NO ONE to date in KH have had ALL their memories taken. Not a single person in KH has had all their memories taken.

RR had his memories crushed but he still kept his memories. Sora had his memories rearanged but he still had his memories. Xehanort still kept the memory of the name 'Xehanort".

My theory says unbirths have had ALL their memories taken. They have NO memories at all and CANNOT make memories.

Do you understand now?

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue490246

one thing i want to get straight is if heartless and nobodies obtain a heart from someone, does that mean that they complete their existence and become full beings? cuz if thats the case, that wud mean if Unbirths were able to obtain memories, according to your theory, then they would become complete beings...

perhaps the reason why there are no more Unbirths is because MX was able to achieve Kingdom Hearts (assuming that MX was not stopped after the Secret Ending from KH2FM), and Kingdom Hearts fulfilled all of the Unbirths by giving them their memories... and taking the hypothesis above, i guess theyd turn into humans..? but i highly doubt MX used Kingdom Hearts for that reason, maybe he want to spread darkness and split the Unbirths into the Heartless and the Nobodies...

No, when a heartless steals a heart, the stolen heart becomes a heartless too. Nobodies can only become whole by getting a heart from KH or by their heartless being killed first followed by the nobody being destroyed.

Now it is possible that the Unbirths seek KH so they can gain their memories and in that case they would probably return to being human.

3-D · June 8th, 2009, 11:11 PM

but KH doesn't carry memories like that, the memories are in the heart, so for them to get it they would need a new heart

or take the memories from another heart, and by your theory that would just make more unbirths

Chrono Mizaki · June 8th, 2009, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3-D

but KH doesn't carry memories like that, the memories are in the heart, so for them to get it they would need a new heart

or take the memories from another heart, and by your theory that would just make more unbirths

But is there actual proof that the memories lies in the heart? Urgh, someone needs to make a diagram of this 'H+S+B+M = Human' diagram because to this day, I still cannot understand this malarky. It's as contradicting as Chrono Cross.

3-D · June 8th, 2009, 11:14 PM

it is stated that the memories lie within the heart

Chrono Mizaki · June 8th, 2009, 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3-D

it is stated that the memories lie within the heart

OH right... My knowledge of COM is fading away, it's almost saddening.

But you are kinda right on the fact that it seems almost never-ending. Hearts and Memories are one, so they need memories and discard the heart, but that will make an unbirth in the process. So if we apply that logic, then the unbirth shouldn't really died out post-BBS.

But if Kingdom Hearts can create a new heart, then it is possible just to create new memories inside the current heart.

3-D · June 8th, 2009, 11:24 PM

if its new how does it have memories?

Chrono Mizaki · June 8th, 2009, 11:30 PM

It doesn't, I guess. But----

Forget it, I'll stick to reviewing Kingdom Hearts. I make more sense there than I do in theories. I know I fucked up there with the explaination. I can't even remember if Kingdom Hearts make new hearts or just have a collection of existing hearts.

Grass · June 8th, 2009, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Memory Master

NO ONE to date in KH have had ALL their memories taken. Not a single person in KH has had all their memories taken.

Roxas.
Xehanort too if he didn't remember the name.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Memory Master

Do you understand now?

No.
Because Marluxia already explained what happens when all memories are gone.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3-D

it is stated that the memories lie within the heart

Not always though, as seen with Nobodies.
For all intents and purposes, I think we can assume the memories dwell within the heart when there's a heart for them to dwell in. Otherwise, they could go to, say, the "mind."