Namine's Origin

[xjeezlouisx]

Originally Posted by SufferingAngel

She wasn't created until Roxas was, and just to remind you, Roxas is number 13 in Organization 13. He's their most recent Member, created when Namine was. How could she have been with them from the start?

play chain of memories maybe thatll help

We don't really know, only that since she never joined, there was no reason to name her Xiraki.
There could be outer circumstances, such as her truly not being a Nobody as I theorized, or at the very least, her effectively coming from two different people, making for a name that couldn't relate only to one person.
Sora = Sky.
Kairi = Ocean.
Namine => Nami = wave, namely - the Ocean (Kairi's Heart) reaching for the Sky (Sora's Body which housed Kairi's stray Heart)

ok i get it!

Referred to in the topic post. It's due to her unique powers.

yes i know....

[SufferingAngel]

Originally Posted by Cissy

Why...

Why did you have to say that? WHY?!



Yes, I be's loving this spamfest.

I LOVED THAT QUOTE! XDDD

Originally Posted by The Enchanted

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.
And intresting connection to TAV.

Mmhm :3

Though, keep this on Namine please. The Unbirths are an added bonus XD

It was said in 2004, SA.

RETCONNING, AWAY!!!! \o/

Also.

Originally Posted by SufferingAngel

Also, keep in mind Kairi's age. What if it truly wasn't a legend, but the grandmother in her own way telling little Kairi of the events taking place all around her during BBS, and trying to get to the point, being - that there will always be Light, even in the Deepest Darkness?

Throw in the Grandmother adding not only hope, but also in a way sugar coating it further by turning Kairi into the "main character" - since the Light remained only in the Hearts of Children. Kairi was at most 4 years old.
This ties in nicely both with it being a fairy tale and an inaccurate one, but that still overlaps reality - since that's what it's based on.

Originally Posted by xjeezlouisx

play chain of memories maybe thatll help

CoM = after Roxas already joined the Organization. Unless I misunderstood what you meant by 'from the start'.

[xjeezlouisx]

Originally Posted by SufferingAngel

CoM = after Roxas already joined the Organization. Unless I misunderstood what you meant by 'from the start'.

like marluxia and them had her!!

[SufferingAngel]

Originally Posted by xjeezlouisx

like marluxia and them had her!!

Yes, because while Roxas materialized in Twilight Town, Namine popped up in Castle Oblivion - where the Organization already had a foot hold. They began experimenting with her for a while with Roxas already in the Organization, and then Sora came in after a while and CoM happened.

[xjeezlouisx]

Originally Posted by SufferingAngel

Yes, because while Roxas materialized in Twilight Town, Namine popped up in Castle Oblivion - where the Organization already had a foot hold. They began experimenting with her for a while with Roxas already in the Organization, and then Sora came in after a while and CoM happened.

and precisely how do you know this?
im pretty sure no one knows this stuff....

[SufferingAngel]

Originally Posted by xjeezlouisx

and precisely how do you know this?
im pretty sure no one knows this stuff....

Originally Posted by Another Report

At the same time, Roxas awoke in Twilight Town, and Naminé awoke in Castle Oblivion.

As for the Organization already being in CO prior, there's a scene added in the FM+, where they talk about moving into the Castle when they just recruited Marluxia - who is number 11. Ergo - they had access to Castle Oblivion long before Roxas and Namine ever came to be, so that when Namine materialized there, the Organization were very close by.

[xjeezlouisx]

aha right dont i feel dumb x0]
for some reason i really never paid attention to those reports...

[SufferingAngel]

Originally Posted by xjeezlouisx

aha right dont i feel dumb x0]
for some reason i really never paid attention to those reports...

Don't be hard on yourself, that "report" isn't from any game, it's a novel.

[xjeezlouisx]

Originally Posted by SufferingAngel

Don't be hard on yourself, that "report" isn't from any game, it's a novel.

oh hahaha dont i feel dumb again!
someone told me that the novels and manga had no relationship to the actual game soo...
but i guess thats our best conclusion right?

[Organization_42]

Well, don't feel bad, because Another Report is different from the Ansem Reports. You can't find it in the games, it was a booklet that got released with copies of KH2FM.

Here's a link to the interview:

Kingdom Hearts: Another Report Pages 26 & 27 - Kingdom Hearts 3 (7)

Originally Posted by SufferingAngel

We don't really know when he started experimenting and for what reasons. He could've meant whatever it was that plagued Xehanort and his Memories.

Also, the entire "Does Mickey remember Xehanort because of Terra/MX/DS/Aqua or not?!" issue. We don't know, thus we can theorize either way.

To top it all, he could've just seen the aftermath, and feared a repeat of the chaos.

There is proof in the Secret Ansem Reports. He said there was darkness in people's hearts, and in order to protect Radiant Garden, he needed to experiment on it. And Xehanort, his apprentice, had volunteered. So this was written after BBS, when he could have easily witnessed those events and came to that conclusion.

The whole thing with Mickey is less certain because he only saw Xehanort briefly, and he doesn't look like the Xehanort Mickey remembers.

[xjeezlouisx]

ima read all the reports now to gain knowledge of kingdom hearts =0]
have a nice day you all.

[SufferingAngel]

Originally Posted by Organization_42

There is proof in the Secret Ansem Reports. He said there was darkness in people's hearts, and in order to protect Radiant Garden, he needed to experiment on it. And Xehanort, his apprentice, had volunteered. So this was written after BBS, when he could have easily witnessed those events and came to that conclusion.

The thing that irks me the most about saying AtW knew about it is that why hasn't he ever consider it then? I mean, ok, he might've known about the Unbirths, but it's also been shown that he stopped his research halfway. Ansem the Wise never really reached any conclusive evidence nor proof or conclusions in fact, because Mickey came and told him "stop, don't do it, it's too dangerous".
So even if he knew about Unbirths, I doubt he knew anything beyond that there were creatures born from the Darkness of the Heart. He later on only had Xehanort's research and creations to base on, and seeing how by then Unbirths were no longer around (to be found, not necesarilly extinct) then neither Xehanort's nor Ansem's researches could've been about Unbirths.
Xehanort's researches were what made the Nobodies and Heartless; the Unbirths were left as mysterious, unexplored and unexperimented on.
Knowing about Unbirths hardly means Ansem the Wise knew what they were to a level he could explain Namine as such, and I provided enough quotes to show that no, he didn't really have enough evidence to base Namine being a Nobody on.
He knew there were three things -
Somebody
Heartless
Nobody
???

Seeing how Kairi would be either the Somebody or the Heartless/Heart, that left Namine, the by-product to be only the third option without him ever truly considering the fourth option since he never truly know about it.
The more I think about this the more it makes sense.
If the Unbirths were truly the reason why AtW began studying the Heart, it would make the most sense he'd know the least about them aside than "there are creatures born from people and Darkness" - but that definition applies nicely enough to Heartless and Nobodies. By the time any true progress was made with the research, Ansem himself had long since stopped it, and then Xehanort made sure that Unbirths would not be what came out of that process but Heartless.

[Grace Assassin]

I won't lie. The theory's a tad confusing to follow. xD

Let me just ask a couple questions. Questions that I'm not even too sure if they were answered or not.

If the Unbirths are a product of beings with pure hearts, why are there so many in BbS? And what would have happened since the PoH's lost their hearts to the Dark Keyblade?

Namine more or less tells Riku in the novel that she is Kairi's Nobody. When addressing Nobodies, she also refers to them as "we," showing that she does indeed identify herself as a Nobody. Are you saying that even Namine was wrong about her existence?

I'm also confused as to if or how Xion could at all fit into this.

@_@

[LionHeart14]

omg that was a long read lol.
you obviously put a lot of thought into this. i think it may be possible :thumbsup:

[SufferingAngel]

Originally Posted by Grace Assassin

If the Unbirths are a product of beings with pure hearts, why are there so many in BbS? And what would have happened since the PoH's lost their hearts to the Dark Keyblade?

Not going strictly by it, but the legend Kairi's Grandmother told her indicates that at least at one point in time, everyone had Hearts of Pure Light. That could explain the amount of Unbirths - enough people to create them.
As for the PoHs -
1) The Hearts never truly 'left', much like how Kairi's Heart never truly broke off from her Body - not resulting in a Nobody or anything else. It did indeed break off from Sora however, enabling Namine - whatever she may be - to be created. The other PoHs lean more towards Kairi's own condition however, thus creating nothing.
2) The PoHs, even amongst the ones with Pure Hearts are special, seeing how they're related to the Keyblade and the Keyholes. We don't really know enough to say this is false. It actually also ties in with them maintaining their Pureness of Heart even when everyone else failed to do so. They were the Pure Hearts that never succumbed to the Darkness, as opposed to the rest of the universe.

Namine more or less tells Riku in the novel that she is Kairi's Nobody. When addressing Nobodies, she also refers to them as "we," showing that she does indeed identify herself as a Nobody. Are you saying that even Namine was wrong about her existence?

How would Namine know what she herself is?
Unbirths seem to be all but extinct;
the two people who should've known the most, Xehanort (and his spawns) and Ansem the Wise probably had little to no idea about them either.
Human shaped Nobodies don't even truly know what they are until told (probably when recruited).
Why should Namine know she's one thing or another, especially if she truly is the "last Unbirth", something all the know-how people should know close to little about?

I'm also confused as to if or how Xion could at all fit into this.

I prefer to think that Xion isn't related. But if you can find a way to shove her into this I donno. Be my guest XD