A Meaning Behind "Unbirth"

[Oblivionkeeper]

dude....absolutely amazing!!

[USS-Bebi]

Pretty good imo(25 chars.)

[OmniChaos]

Doubtlessly it has something to do with the heart.

I do agree with you on that...

Maybe I didn't explain it good enough. But what I'm getting at is that Unbirths could be beings born without memories. That ties in better, right?

But memory loss does not tie in with the name... I just don't see how you get the idea of memory loss from the name Unbirth... The two just don't work with each other...

What enemies? If you're talking about the ginormous thing that turned to dust in the first segment of that video I linked, I think it's fair to say it was an early concept for Birth By Sleep that is no longer considered valid, just like the three missing Keyblades.

I'm talking about the Unbirths... You are saying MX created them through KH, but MX doesn't open/summon KH until near the end...

But I think it's Maleficent who's after the Princesses, not Xehanort. Other than that, I don't really know.

There has been ingame proof that he is... Here's the conversation:

Aqua: "Is there a clue of Master Xehanort?"
Terra: "He is interested in hearts of pure light."
Aqua: "A heart of pure light..."
Terra: "We'll chase the light too."
Terra: "Master Xehanort should appear if we do so."

So, yeah...

I didn't fail, I just didn't think it was necessary to type. However, I can't imagine who else Terra would be talking about aside from Ven.

Possibly DS...

I know. I'm just saying that if he submitted to the darkness, maybe he lost his Keyblade. Or he could be warning Terra not to submit to the darkness.

Except he didn't loose his keyblade, as we saw him with one during the secret ending...

If it indicated nothing I would not have wasted time typing all of that and responding to your post. :/

Seeing as how the secret ending is obviously toward the end, there is no way the quotes can indicate that those scene happened after the secret ending... And since you were trying to use those quotes to do such, they indicate nothing...

Unbirths = Those born without memories. That's my definition for them.

Then why not call them "Unmemory" or something like that...? The name would imply a backward process of normal birth, hence "UnBirth"...

[Frozen_Melody]

Damn that's one awesome theory.

[Reno/Axel]

Un-Birth could indeed mean the fact that it is not a heartless and it is not a nobody but it lays inbetween.

Like it isnt born yet so it doesnt have a heart but it exsists.
Or it could be a human not yet born with a heart thus doesnt have a heart or memories

[keybladerxiii]

Could be true...but could also not be true.

[OneWingedDemon]

Brilliant theory. Well thought out, and appears very likely to me.

Great job!

[Owaz]

Originally Posted by OmniChaos

But memory loss does not tie in with the name... I just don't see how you get the idea of memory loss from the name Unbirth... The two just don't work with each other...

Well, actually I figured memories were related to Unbirths based on what we learned from Chain of Memories. I'm just saying that it probably derives from them being entities that have been born into the world with their memories completely stripped, but their hearts still remain intact.

Originally Posted by OmniChaos

I'm talking about the Unbirths... You are saying MX created them through KH, but MX doesn't open/summon KH until near the end...

At the end of the teaser video, yes. But I'm implying that the events depicted in that secret clip are just the prelude to the story of Birth by Sleep.

Originally Posted by OmniChaos

There has been ingame proof that he is... Here's the conversation:

I think it's fair to say Terra could just as easily have been fooled into believing that by Maleficent. After all, we've seen her lie to Riku.

Originally Posted by OmniChaos

Possibly DS...

The apprentice of Master Xehanort as Terra's friend? I really don't think that's the case. Especially when we saw him beat Ven in the wasteland.

Originally Posted by OmniChaos

Except he didn't loose his keyblade, as we saw him with one during the secret ending...

Well the problem here is you think it's at the end of Birth by Sleep and I think it's at the beginning. So we can't really reach a conclusion.

Originally Posted by OmniChaos

Seeing as how the secret ending is obviously toward the end, there is no way the quotes can indicate that those scene happened after the secret ending... And since you were trying to use those quotes to do such, they indicate nothing...

Would you explain why it takes place toward the end, then? Because from what's been shown in scans and the trailers, it appears more likely that the secret video is a scene from the beginning of the story. After all, why would Nomura and his team show us the ending to Birth by Sleep? Wouldn't it make more sense for Terra, Aqua, and Ven to put up a more capable fight at the end, as opposed to being completely demolished? For what other event would Terra be angry with Master Xehanort about? Why would Ven have no memory of Xehanort, and yet the old man indicates they've met before? Clearly the best explanation is that the secret ending from FM+ was the start of Birth By Sleep. I can't see how it would be the end.

Originally Posted by OmniChaos

Then why not call them "Unmemory" or something like that...? The name would imply a backward process of normal birth, hence "UnBirth"...

Well, what else do you have in mind that would make sense for Unbirth's derivation?

[OmniChaos]

Originally Posted by Owaz

Well, actually I figured memories were related to Unbirths based on what we learned from Chain of Memories. I'm just saying that it probably derives from them being entities that have been born into the world with their memories completely stripped, but their hearts still remain intact.

Well, I'm just going to end this section of the debate, seeing as how there is nothing that can prove or disprove either of our ideas and we are simply going in circles...
Though I do think memories will have some role in BBS, I still can't see them tied into the Unbirths in that sort of way...

At the end of the teaser video, yes. But I'm implying that the events depicted in that secret clip are just the prelude to the story of Birth by Sleep.

The scene just obviously points toward the end...
The three apprentices gather and take on MX in order to stop his plans...
MX and DS beat the three down, steals from Ven what ever it was MX was after, and summons KH...
Also, if MX had summoned KH before BBS, I'm sure he would have used its power to wipe out VAT...

I think it's fair to say Terra could just as easily have been fooled into believing that by Maleficent. After all, we've seen her lie to Riku.

Possibly... But I can easily see MX doing the same thing XH did in KH1...

The apprentice of Master Xehanort as Terra's friend? I really don't think that's the case. Especially when we saw him beat Ven in the wasteland.

There really is no one else he can be referring to... Why call Ven "friend" in quotes, if it has already been established that they are friends...?

Would you explain why it takes place toward the end, then? Because from what's been shown in scans and the trailers, it appears more likely that the secret video is a scene from the beginning of the story.

Because it just screams "final battle"...?
Also, Ven's keyblade is destroyed in the secret ending...

After all, why would Nomura and his team show us the ending to Birth by Sleep?

Because they aren't...? It's toward the end, not the end...

Wouldn't it make more sense for Terra, Aqua, and Ven to put up a more capable fight at the end, as opposed to being completely demolished?

Not if they are against a nearly all powerful being...

For what other event would Terra be angry with Master Xehanort about?

Taking Ven's heart...? (Assuming he to be a "pure of heart")

Why would Ven have no memory of Xehanort, and yet the old man indicates they've met before?

In all honesty, I cannot counter this...

Well, what else do you have in mind that would make sense for Unbirth's derivation?

lol...
A process based off the word's original meaning...

[.:Raz:.]

I guess you could be considered "unborn" without memories. But it's a stretch...

[Owaz]

Originally Posted by OmniChaos

[color="Blue"]The scene just obviously points toward the end...
The three apprentices gather and take on MX in order to stop his plans...
MX and DS beat the three down, steals from Ven what ever it was MX was after, and summons KH...
Also, if MX had summoned KH before BBS, I'm sure he would have used its power to wipe out VAT...

It may give the impression that it's leading to their final battle, but the problem with what you're suggesting is we see Xehanort asking Terra to "Defeat the darkness" and "correct [his] mistake." There would be no sense in him fighting the three heroes when he wants their help. And it's that particular quote that leads me to believe the summoning of Kingdom Hearts is the mistake he speaks of, and the darkness to be defeated are the Unbirths. This also insists it's the reason for why Terra's peeved at Xehanort over Ven. In all likely hood though, we could both be wrong, and the battle actually takes place at the middle of the game, at the end of one of the characters' scenarios.

Originally Posted by OmniChaos

There really is no one else he can be referring to... Why call Ven "friend" in quotes, if it has already been established that they are friends...?

Simple. Ven lost his memory, therefore he's not the same person Terra knew him as.

Originally Posted by OmniChaos

Because it just screams "final battle"...?
Also, Ven's keyblade is destroyed in the secret ending...

You make a very good point here. And while I can't really argue against it, maybe, just maybe, Ven got his Keyblade fixed.

Originally Posted by OmniChaos

Not if they are against a nearly all powerful being...

Hardly all powerful. They would have done a much better job if they actually worked together and if Terra didn't have the martyr-like personality to charge head on by himself.

Originally Posted by OmniChaos

Taking Ven's heart...? (Assuming he to be a "pure of heart")

I really don't think Ven makes for a nice Princess of Heart. Although it would make some interesting fanart...

[KeyMaker]

Let me think the meanging of Unbirths is obviously those who are not born, or maybe those who have been Unborn(meaning were born, but it their birth was somehow taken away) What want to know is how they come to be. At the moment only the KH Team knows. But if I give it a bit of analysis.
Heartless, those without hearts-created the moment one loses their heart
Nobodies, those without bodies-created at the moment a heartless is created
Unbirth, those who are not or have been unborn- created the moment you are born, perhaps they hold light and/or dark powers, depending on who the person is that is born.

BUT, maybe they are created the moment you die. Hey there is going to be an Axel unbirth yippee.j/k

[SleepyHeart]

I still think this is a good thoery ... since we dont have much info on the game i think this is a good start.

[KeyMaker]

I don't like it. I think lost memories would form something else. I think unbirths are just some creations of Master Xehanort, like artificial heartless. Maybe he created them which is why they weren't "born" naturally.

[Valley of Chrome]

What would happen if someone broke the Chain of Memories in your heart?