Everything We Know About Unbirths So Far

[Mikazuki]

Originally Posted by Riku-Keyblade

Um... that's how it worked in the movie....

That spinning wheel wasn't a giant monster set out to attack her. O.O

Originally Posted by Grace Assassin

I saw that, but it seems to me you didn't understand that the trailer and demo are... different. You may it sound as though the trailer is chronologically after the demo...

"Blown out of the water" is used for upsetting a largely established idea. This..

I didn't mean it in any chronological order, I'm sorry if it seemed that way.

And words don't need to have such a literal sense. I was only kidding around to be honest.

[Audo]

Originally Posted by Mikazuki

That spinning wheel wasn't a giant monster set out to attack her. O.O

Yeah but in the movie she was entranced and was drawn to the needle.
It could easily be a similar case here where the Wheel Master is entrancing her and trying to PRICK her. lawls :P

[Grace Assassin]

Originally Posted by Mikazuki

That spinning wheel wasn't a giant monster set out to attack her. O.O

Do I need to list the countless changes KH has had in adapting the Disney movies? It would fit perfectly!

Originally Posted by Mikazuki

And words don't need to have such a literal sense. I was only kidding around to be honest.

I know but it was just... awkward. It's like saying I utterly annihilated someone after giving them a bitch slap.

[Mikazuki]

For some reason, my eyes picked up that you typed "poked" by mistake. @.@ So drowsy.

That does make sense, point made.

If you felt like making a little exaggeration after doing it, then you could.

[shadow15]

Uh...Seeing as this area is for discussion on the Unbirths, I was wondering if I could ask your guys thoughts about this theory I made on them? I've been thinking about this theory for a while now and i'm sure of it that this time i'm able to explain it to be understandable.

Here is my theory of what the Unbirths in Kingdom Hearts Birth By Sleep are.
It's said they might actually be some type of Heartless/Nobody somehow although we don't know exactly how they were created...I think they are more like Heartless than nobodies because nobodies are just the body and the soul when a heartless would be darkness, The heart, and their instincts. 2 features of a nobody and 3 features of a heartless. But the 2 to 3 thing may depend on what you think about the Unbirths.

As for how there were no more of the Unbirths after Birth By Sleep,I think it's more of an evolve sort of thing over time, We have noticed already that there was a Kingdom Hearts in the BBS secret ending. It's like there are higher forms and lower forms of them just like nobodies except similar to what the heartless are. It kind of reminds me of the DS except I think there's a different story as to why the DS is the way he is. The Unbirths you would assume to be not birth so you would think they wouldn't be born but Heartless have Hearts and Nobodies have bodies so an Unbirth could have a birth I guess you could say less of a birth? I mean I don't see why they wouldn't have some sort of a birth if Roxas is said to have had one.

Namine is a nobody except she just happened therefore she isn't what you would call naturally born but less of a birth she was just created,right? As spoke of before. And obviously there was a process to go through first before she could happen so no giving me bullcrap about it. So to be created as some type of form, take nobodies or heartless for example they weren't born it was just more like a transformation of the heart into a heartless and it's body and soul seperating, I don't exactly see how that is creating...

The new enemy isn't a Heartless or a Nobody and Nobodies and Heartless weren't around until after BBS about a year after BBS when the young Xehanort had created the first one. So unless there were different enemies or creatures before BBS the process wasn't by some sort of evolution or evolving type of thing unless you count the people who came to be this new enemy. They could be like nobodies, Nobodies take lower and Higher forms, They might be like the DS and keep a heart with darkness. The DS would be a higher form. When the heart is taken by darkness the body seperates as body and soul and the Heartless just keeps the heart and goes by it's instincts so a heartless with a body and soul that can take higher and lower forms... Humanoid dark form(Like DS) to something like dusks combined with heartless forms. It wouldn't really be a Heartless but it would be filled with darkness so would a person not transform if they had a weaker heart in such a process? I think they would but if they are unbirths then they must have been created in such a process(transformation) unbirth=Less of a birth not never born at all.There was some sort of way they were created or transformed into such beings known as unbirths and i'm not sure how but I think it's very possible seeing how things are...For all we know the keychains from the Keyblades might even have something to do with it.

When Nomura says the birth of Roxas it doesn't make all that much sense unless he's more specific because Roxas is Sora and it's just him without his heart so it would be like saying the birth of Sora but Sora was able to take a humanoid form when Kairi revived him but how exactly does that make him what i've been told, like a walking heart when she revived him. He hadn't gone by a Heartless instinct at all when a Heartless and could use his mind and heart and then later Roxas returns to him as his soul instead of as his original body and soul so them being seperate it's like the birth of another Sora(The other nobodies only had heartless and themselves they didn't have their heartless revived like Sora so that only his soul would return and he would be whole again just like that, normally the nobody(body and soul) would have to try and gain a heart. They had to try and get hearts not just have their souls return as simply as Sora's and Kairi's did.)So it's as if they are seperate beings but the same person, The fact that they are the same wouldn't really effect Sora once he returned either so I think that's what he's trying to say when he brings up birth. With Namine kairi didn't even need to seperate her heart and body, her heart just returned to her when released,right? So that just made Namine happen when sora released her heart and became a heartless his body and soul left as Roxas and so Namine was made from Kairi's Heart and Soras body and Soul as well making her Kairi's nobody.(I think that would explain Namine's hair color.) Which made what i'm guessing is another of Kairi as they are the same when they return there isn't really a change in Kairi. They could see eachother face to face as that is the obvious and you don't have to reply at the seeing eachother face to face thing by saying you already knew that far... Cause i'm sure you do.

I'm definitely and clearly not saying nobodies are unbirths though, They are different because Unbirths may actually keep hearts and come to be in a different way. The unbirths might actually have minds as well but I don't think they can control themselves as brought up before in other threads, They are wild. But at higher levels they'll probably be able to maintain better control. As for how it is possible for them to be Heartless/Nobodies I don't really know how to explain a full process in my theory as of now...

So those are my thoughts and theory on the unbirths...

[.Oji]

^ I'm tempted to say tl;dr, but meh, here's some criticism for ya. ;D

Originally Posted by shadow15

Here is my theory of what the Unbirths in Kingdom Hearts Birth By Sleep are.
It's said they might actually be some type of Heartless/Nobody somehow although we don't know exactly how they were created...

Enlighten me, where was this said excatly? =/

I think they are more like Heartless than nobodies because nobodies are just the body and the soul when a heartless would be darkness, The heart, and their instincts. 2 features of a nobody and 3 features of a heartless. But the 2 to 3 thing may depend on what you think about the Unbirths.

I personally think the Unbirths are some form of pseduo/premature heartless, but whatever. Moving on.

As for how there were no more of the Unbirths after Birth By Sleep,I think it's more of an evolve sort of thing over time

I could somewhat agree with that. Could possibly explain why we don't see them anymore.

The Unbirths you would assume to be not birth so you would think they wouldn't be born but Heartless have Hearts and Nobodies have bodies so an Unbirth could have a birth I guess you could say less of a birth? I mean I don't see why they wouldn't have some sort of a birth if Roxas is said to have had one.

You lost me here, are you saying Roxas had an Unbirth? Hu...wha? Also

Nobodies - nobodies mean no person - they lack hearts - a heart is the identity of a person - therefore a nobody is called a nobody because it lacks an identity aka a heart.

Heartless are hearts, specifically the darkness of a heart - they techincally don't possess a heart. Thus, the names fit. =P

Namine is a nobody except she just happened therefore she isn't what you would call naturally born but less of a birth she was just created,right?

Birth = Creation.

She's special, just like Roxas - created under abnormal circumstances.

So to be created as some type of form, take nobodies or heartless for example they weren't born it was just more like a transformation of the heart into a heartless and it's body and soul seperating, I don't exactly see how that is creating...

It is creating. =/

When the heart is taken by darkness the body seperates as body and soul and the Heartless just keeps the heart and goes by it's instincts so a heartless with a body and soul that can take higher and lower forms... Humanoid dark form(Like DS) to something like dusks combined with heartless forms.

Lol, that just sounds shitty, dude. A heartless with a body and a soul? Eh, if a heartless is techincally a heart, and it somehow wounds back into the body, wouldn't the person who lost the said heart revert back to his normal self? Think about it.

I think the DS is like Chernabog - an entity of overwhelming pure darkness.

It wouldn't really be a Heartless but it would be filled with darkness

A monster infused with darkness. Yup. ^_^

unbirth=Less of a birth not never born at all.

Yup, since the prefix "Un" denotes the term "Not."

Unbirth - Not birth - No birth - birthless

There was some sort of way they were created or transformed into such beings known as unbirths and i'm not sure how but I think it's very possible seeing how things are...For all we know the keychains from the Keyblades might even have something to do with it.

Eh, well... hmm, well I can't really say either way. =/

When Nomura says the birth of Roxas it doesn't make all that much sense unless he's more specific because Roxas is Sora and it's just him without his heart so it would be like saying the birth of Sora

How doesn't it make sense? Roxas was born in Twilight Town - an inbetween world - where nobodies are born.

but Sora was able to take a humanoid form when Kairi revived him but how exactly does that make him what i've been told, like a walking heart when she revived him.

Because he lost his body and soul. =/

He hadn't gone by a Heartless instinct at all when a Heartless and could use his mind and heart and then later Roxas returns to him as his soul instead of as his original body and soul so them being seperate it's like the birth of another Sora(The other nobodies only had heartless and themselves they didn't have their heartless revived like Sora so that only his soul would return and he would be whole again just like that, normally the nobody(body and soul) would have to try and gain a heart. They had to try and get hearts not just have their souls return as simply as Sora's and Kairi's did.)

?????

So it's as if they are seperate beings but the same person,

Yeah. =/

The fact that they are the same wouldn't really effect Sora once he returned either so I think that's what he's trying to say when he brings up birth. With Namine kairi didn't even need to seperate her heart and body, her heart just returned to her when released, right?

Yup.

So that just made Namine happen when sora released her heart and became a heartless his body and soul left as Roxas and so Namine was made from Kairi's Heart and Soras body and Soul as well making her Kairi's nobody.

Yuppers.

As for how it is possible for them to be Heartless/Nobodies I don't really know how to explain a full process in my theory as of now...

Terry Bogard: OKAY!

Err, yeah, I couldn't quite comprehend what you were trying to say at times, but I gotta give you credit. It probably took you a while to think this one up, lawlz. XP

[b-mart]

thiis one was allright but not alot of info

[Audo]

I wooooooonder why that is?

[shadow15]

Enlighten me, where was this said excatly? =/

Okay well it's been said a possibility and they might not exactly be Heartless/Nobodies but something along the lines. Remember from the other threads people would actually wonder about that. Well what I said about Heartless/Nobodies may not be the case but that sentence was probably the least important I just meant they were something along the lines because if they were Heartless/Nobodies that would be a fusion right?

You lost me here, are you saying Roxas had an Unbirth? Hu...wha? Also

Nobodies - nobodies mean no person - they lack hearts - a heart is the identity of a person - therefore a nobody is called a nobody because it lacks an identity aka a heart.

Heartless are hearts, specifically the darkness of a heart - they techincally don't possess a heart. Thus, the names fit. =P

I'm not saying Roxas had an Unbirth, I'm saying Roxas as Soras nobody should be considered born when Sora was naturally because they are the same person and everything. His heart just seperated from him but Tetsuya Nomura says the birth of Roxas which makes me think hmm...How is it possible for him to be born? Well he was created when Sora was he just doesn't have a heart anymore. So when Kairi had revived Sora with the Light making him I guess a walking heart. Nobodies mean no person without the heart to identify them of course, I never said they possessed a heart it's just the organization would always have the need to have a heart and didn't they make a Kingdom Hearts for that reason, to get hearts? Sora as a Heartless didn't go by a Heartless instinct and the other nobodies heartless would go by instinct and their Heartless probably weren't revived like Soras Heartless was and Sora was, So they couldn't return to themselves as easily as Sora was able to.

In the end of KH 2 we see that the soul of Roxas returned to Sora and Namine returned to Kairi, But Sora was a walking heart right? Unless it was Sora as a walking heart that returned to the body of Roxas that would be the other way around. But either way the way Kingdom Hearts is when they are called nobodies they have bodies but when they say no bodies they mean no identities. When they say Heartless they mean they have a heart but you would consider it as less of one when you are a Heartless. As an Unbirth it means not birth but they probably had a birth just a different kind of birth I would guess less of one not natural birth but creation, Like Namine except she isn't an Unbirth because she is a nobody she only had less of a birth but that doesn't mean it happened the same way the Unbirths are actually made. As for Roxas it was just a separation between him and his heart so therefore the part where you said "It is creating.=/" It wasn't creating but Nomura said Roxas had a birth but I think if he is saying birth Roxas and his walking heart him which is Sora would have to become separate entities. Not that they didn't return to eachother or anything as the same person. But there's some parts we just won't be able to understand to their full extent.

Nobodies such as the rest of organization thirteen couldn't just have their souls return to their heartless like that because they were the body and soul and their heartless were just heartless not walking hearts, So it's sort of like Sora was a Heartless except in some sort of higher form since kairi revived him and Roxas returned to that walking heart, right? It may be possible that it would have made him whole either way and could that make it possible that the Body of Roxas didn't really fade away. But the main point of explanation isn't how he returned but how he could have a Birth, Roxas and Sora could see eachother face to face right. So with Sora revived it could be like making another of him seeing as Sora had his will and didn't just go by instinct Roxas kept his mind didn't he so what was making Sora tick as a walking heart? It was like having two Soras except neither of them were whole were they, That is until Roxas had returned to Sora and it didn't effect him as a walking heart because they are the same person and it would then make him whole but would his original body really just fade away(Roxas as in Soras body)? Or would somethingelse happen to it considering the connection to Ven.
Namine would just return to Kairi who was whole and it didn't effect her because they were the same person but the fourteenth member Xion has this connection to her but she probably also has a connection to Aqua so I think something happened to Aqua having to do with Namine and possibly a heart or soul type of connection between them. As for the name Ino, I think it means Sea and Namine just took a name so it could be possible to be the same for Xion. Maybe Aqua isn't her full name.

Birth = Creation.

She's special, just like Roxas - created under abnormal circumstances.

Exactly, You seem to understand it! :)

Lol, that just sounds shitty, dude. A heartless with a body and a soul? Eh, if a heartless is techincally a heart, and it somehow wounds back into the body, wouldn't the person who lost the said heart revert back to his normal self? Think about it.

I think the DS is like Chernabog - an entity of overwhelming pure darkness.

Yes, that did come out rather shitty but the most important thing is that most of it was understood, I had to do a little editting cause I didn't really know how to explain it. What I meant was something like a Heartless, It didn't wind up back in the body it stayed there but it was full of darkness and it only goes by instinct due to the process it was made in. The DS seems to have a heart and a humanoid body and you would have to have the soul to be alive. He was probably infused with darkness and that may have transformed his appearance a little and messed with his instincts. What exactly is it that the Heartless is seeking if you know what you will understand why the DS or Unbirths would only go by instincts, The DS would be a higher power of them it could be that all they are is bodies of Darkness and not normal bodies it could be that the darkness would take their bodies and transform them and the DS could just be taking a humanoid form keeping his soul at the same time. If a heartless returned to a nobody that would make them whole again except I think the darkness would have a hold over them but that would be a different process because Nobodies and Heartless didn't even exist in the times of bbs.It's like the darkness took the soul with it through a special process that is unknown cause there doesn't seem to be any other ideas. But if we study it more we could probably think up a possible process. It probably has to do with Unbirth.

How doesn't it make sense? Roxas was born in Twilight Town - an inbetween world - where nobodies are born.

It doesn't make sense because him and Sora are the same it's not like his birth is anyoneelses other than Soras his body just appeared there when the heart separated. He would have to make it more specific but people agree to what is true and it is that Roxas was born.

I said "So it's as if they are seperate beings but the same person," and you seem to easily agree with that. They would have to become seperate for the birth of Roxas to be normal, otherwise it would be creation instead of separation from the body with the soul and the heart. Maybe he was just created as a separate being from the walking heart(Sora) and still be the same person which would make him have an unnatural birth in which case he would have a birth and would later return to Sora to make him whole but that wouldn't make him an Unbirth because there's a difference over the fact that a nobody isn't taken by the darkness and were still not entirely sure whether the new enemies actually have hearts but it's certainly a possibility. Nobodies take no identity but who's to say a nobody couldn't have an unbirth, But they would be classified as nobodies. But an Unbirth would be classified as somethingelse as the "New Enemy". There's probably few nobodies with unbirths.

Later.

[.Oji]

^ Another wall-o-text. Okay...

Originally Posted by shadow15

Okay well it's been said a possibility and they might not exactly be Heartless/Nobodies but something along the lines. Remember from the other threads people would actually wonder about that. Well what I said about Heartless/Nobodies may not be the case but that sentence was probably the least important I just meant they were something along the lines because if they were Heartless/Nobodies that would be a fusion right?

A fusion between a heartless and a nobody would create a person, I believe.

Originally Posted by shadow15

I'm not saying Roxas had an Unbirth, I'm saying Roxas as Soras nobody should be considered born when Sora was naturally because they are the same person and everything. His heart just seperated from him but Tetsuya Nomura says the birth of Roxas which makes me think hmm...How is it possible for him to be born?

Lawlz

Once a strong heart is enveloped by darkness and becomes a heartless, a nobody is born. Roxas was born when Sora became a heartless - nothing more to it, bud. =P

Originally Posted by shadow15

Nobodies mean no person without the heart to identify them of course, I never said they possessed a heart it's just the organization would always have the need to have a heart and didn't they make a Kingdom Hearts for that reason, to get hearts?

Basically.

Xaldin: "When Kingdom Hearts is ours, we can exist fully and completely."

Originally Posted by shadow15

As an Unbirth it means not birth but they probably had a birth just a different kind of birth I would guess less of one not natural birth but creation, Like Namine except she isn't an Unbirth because she is a nobody she only had less of a birth but that doesn't mean it happened the same way the Unbirths are actually made.

I don't like the sound of this 'less of a birth' jazz. I mean, birth is birth. Lawlz

Originally Posted by shadow15

As for Roxas it was just a separation between him and his heart so therefore the part where you said "It is creating.=/" It wasn't creating but Nomura said Roxas had a birth but I think if he is saying birth Roxas and his walking heart him which is Sora would have to become separate entities. Not that they didn't return to eachother or anything as the same person. But there's some parts we just won't be able to understand to their full extent.

It is creating.

Sora losing his heart to darkness created a nobody, a la Roxas, whom was born in Twilight Town.

Originally Posted by shadow15

Nobodies such as the rest of organization thirteen couldn't just have their souls return to their heartless like that because they were the body and soul and their heartless were just heartless not walking hearts

They had to destroy their heartless in order to become whole.

Originally Posted by shadow15

So it's sort of like Sora was a Heartless except in some sort of higher form since kairi revived him and Roxas returned to that walking heart, right?

Sora technically wasn't a heartless anymore once Kairi saved him. But yeah, he was just in the existence of a heart - a walking heart, as you mentioned.

Originally Posted by shadow15

It may be possible that it would have made him whole either way and could that make it possible that the Body of Roxas didn't really fade away.

Roxas's body is Sora's body. =/

Originally Posted by shadow15

But the main point of explanation isn't how he returned but how he could have a Birth, Roxas and Sora could see eachother face to face right.

I already explained this.

Originally Posted by shadow15

So with Sora revived it could be like making another of him seeing as Sora had his will and didn't just go by instinct Roxas kept his mind didn't he so what was making Sora tick as a walking heart?

Memory, perhaps?

Originally Posted by shadow15

It was like having two Soras except neither of them were whole were they

What?

Originally Posted by shadow15

That is until Roxas had returned to Sora and it didn't effect him as a walking heart because they are the same person and it would then make him whole but would his original body really just fade away?

You're not getting it. Roxas's body is Sora's body, it just took on a different appearance.

Originally Posted by shadow15

Or would somethingelse happen to it considering the connection to Ven.

I dunno.

I'm not gonna touch the Sora/Roxas/Ven connection thing. Not enough sufficient info for me to say anything about it, at the moment.

Originally Posted by shadow15

Namine would just return to Kairi who was whole and it didn't effect her because they were the same person but the fourteenth member Xion has this connection to her but she probably also has a connection to Aqua so I think something happened to Aqua having to do with Namine and possibly a heart or soul type of connection between them. As for the name Ino, I think it means Sea and Namine just took a name so it could be possible to be the same for Xion. Maybe Aqua isn't her full name.

Lol, I'm definitely not gonna touch this until I got more info. XD

Originally Posted by shadow15

The DS seems to have a heart and a humanoid body and you would have to have the soul to be alive. He was probably infused with darkness and that may have transformed his appearance a little and messed with his instincts.

Okay, looking good so far. The 'Humanoid' thing bugs me, though - I think the DS is a human who was enticed by darkness, courtesy of MX.

Originally Posted by shadow15

What exactly is it that the Heartless is seeking if you know what you will understand why the DS or Unbirths would only go by instincts

The DS actually looks like he shows a bit of strategy in battle. Strategy = / = Instincts

Originally Posted by shadow15

The DS would be a higher power of them it could be that all they are is bodies of Darkness and not normal bodies it could be that the darkness would take their bodies and transform them and the DS could just be taking a humanoid form keeping his soul at the same time.

So you're under the impression that the DS is one of these creatures? I think he's just a human with massive darkness inside of him, sooo...

Originally Posted by shadow15

If a heartless returned to a nobody that would make them whole again except I think the darkness would have a hold over them but that would be a different process because Nobodies and Heartless didn't even exist in the times of bbs.It's like the darkness took the soul with it through a special process that is unknown cause there doesn't seem to be any other ideas. But if we study it more we could probably think up a possible process. It probably has to do with Unbirth.

Yes, no, maybe so - I dunno, Shadow... 15. =P

Originally Posted by shadow15

It doesn't make sense because him and Sora are the same it's not like his birth is anyoneelses other than Soras his body just appeared there when the heart separated. He would have to make it more specific but people agree to what is true and it is that Roxas was born.

I fail to see how it doesn't make sense. =/

Originally Posted by shadow15

I said "So it's as if they are seperate beings but the same person," and you seem to easily agree with that.

Sora = Heart
Roxas = Body & Soul
Requirements to be whole = Body | Heart | Soul

They are the same, but they live seperate lives until they fused back together.

Originally Posted by shadow15

They would have to become seperate for the birth of Roxas to be normal, otherwise it would be creation instead of separation from the body with the soul and the heart.

You're still not getting it.

Eh, creation from seperation is the best way I can describe it, atm.

Originally Posted by shadow15

Maybe he was just created as a separate being from the walking heart(Sora) and still be the same person which would make him have an unnatural birth in which case he would have a birth and would later return to Sora to make him whole but that wouldn't make him an Unbirth because there's a difference over the fact that a nobody isn't taken by the darkness and were still not entirely sure whether the new enemies actually have hearts but it's certainly a possibility. Nobodies take no identity but who's to say a nobody couldn't have an unbirth, But they would be classified as nobodies. But an Unbirth would be classified as somethingelse as the "New Enemy". There's probably few nobodies with unbirths.

You enjoy rambling, huh? lol

I don't think Unbirths existed in the time of Heartless and Nobodies, so for a Nobody to have a Unbirth, well, by what Nomura said, that's not possible. ^_^

[Danica Syer]

Wow, that’s a lot of information you’ve uncovered! :D
They look like interesting enemies!

[Raz]

While we managed to clear our way through the minor enemies without a problem, we did find that the boss within the Enchanted Castle was a bit more complex. It was a gigantic loom-like creature (potentially reminiscent of the one that Sleeping Beauty pricked her finger with. However, it had been augmented with Maleficent's magic to be much larger and deadly, and there were multiple areas that needed to be targeted to destroy it properly, weakening its strength before it could be eliminated. Unfortunately, before we could land the killing blow, we ran out of time, but we were extremely excited to get our hands on the title which will be hitting PSPs in 2009.

I really want to fight this boss. ;D

[shadow15]

Son of a bitch!!! I typed so god damn much in reply and accidentally erased it. Well i'll retype it anyways...

A fusion between a heartless and a nobody would create a person, I believe.

Okay, I see what you mean but the Heartless to be fused with a nobody would still be taken over by the darkness and I don't know if that would effect the body or leave it normal.

Lawlz

Once a strong heart is enveloped by darkness and becomes a heartless, a nobody is born. Roxas was born when Sora became a heartless - nothing more to it, bud. =P

I'm sure you already know this but weaker hearts enveloped in Darkness will make lesser nobodies of course. But anyways, Roxas was born when Sora became a heartless. He somehow appeared as his body and soul in Twilight Town in a different appearance as in a Metamorphosis. Just like how lesser nobodies look weird they go through Metamorphosis but Roxas looks different because of his connection with Ven. The heart goes through metamorphosis too and just so were clear on what a Metamorphosis is in this situation i've copied and pasted descriptions from dictionary.com for a better understanding.

Biology. a profound change in form from one stage to the next in the life history of an organism, as from the caterpillar to the pupa and from the pupa to the adult butterfly. Compare complete metamorphosis.
a complete change of form, structure, or substance, as transformation by magic or witchcraft.
any complete change in appearance, character, circumstances, etc.
a form resulting from any such change.
A marked change in appearance, character, condition, or function.

Basically.

Xaldin: "When Kingdom Hearts is ours, we can exist fully and completely."

Yes.

I don't like the sound of this 'less of a birth' jazz. I mean, birth is birth. Lawlz

I can put it in a different way if you want me too if it's bothering you...What I mean by Less of a Birth is just an unnatural birth like just being created. You have no idea what kind of hell it is having to retype this whole explanation, I had a so much better one and now I have to revise it.Oh well :(

It is creating.

Sora losing his heart to darkness created a nobody, a la Roxas, whom was born in Twilight Town

Yes, I've just been comparing these processes to come to a good conclusion...Cause a nobody can't possibly be like an unbirth. Now remember Unbirths can actually have births. But the unbirths are definitely more like unbirths not nobodies lol, In which case I think they went through ssome metamorphosis caused by the effects of darkness.

I dunno.

I'm not gonna touch the Sora/Roxas/Ven connection thing. Not enough sufficient info for me to say anything about it, at the moment.

Good cause that's almost like a whole different theory, I was thinking along the lines of Xion being Aqua/Kairi as an incarnation...Same with the possible bringing back of Ven.

Okay, looking good so far. The 'Humanoid' thing bugs me, though - I think the DS is a human who was enticed by darkness, courtesy of MX.

That could be it...

The DS actually looks like he shows a bit of strategy in battle. Strategy = / = Instincts

Stronger Heart= More control and use of mind, Except as a being filled with darkness they have the same goals as Heartless and seek what Heartless do. The DS has a stronger heart and I think the DS is different from the rest anyhow.
But I think they have Higher and Lower forms of themselves depending on their hearts strength.

So you're under the impression that the DS is one of these creatures? I think he's just a human with massive darkness inside of him, sooo...

That could be possible...But weaker people with darkness in them like the DS might just transform in the group of lower Unbirths.

Yes, no, maybe so - I dunno, Shadow... 15. =P

lol, You seem to get it. It just needs a conclusion. It's actually basic stuff with examples and comparisons all it needs is a conclusion...

I fail to see how it doesn't make sense. =/

Oh, It made sense I just said the wrong thing for it, All I mean is he could have been just a little more specific not too specific cause i'm sure it would've been possible to spoil some things.Sorry about that.

Sora = Heart
Roxas = Body & Soul
Requirements to be whole = Body | Heart | Soul

They are the same, but they live seperate lives until they fused back together.

Pretty much, We just need to think what exactly would make an Unbirth....Also, Was it the soul in the body of Sora which is Roxas that returned to what is considered Sora as a walking heart? Would he be whole after that and would his body have faded away or would it have made a new one? It could just be something normal and that Sora returned to Roxas and then I go to the next theory from that point which is the incarnation thing.

You're still not getting it.

Eh, creation from seperation is the best way I can describe it, atm.

I understand it, And I also think that it is creation from separation but it may also even be a metamorphosis type of situation where the heart turns into the heartless and the nobody can take different appearances as well, So the darkness of the Unbirths gives them different appearances too...

You enjoy rambling, huh? lol

I don't think Unbirths existed in the time of Heartless and Nobodies, so for a Nobody to have a Unbirth, well, by what Nomura said, that's not possible. ^_^

I never said the Unbirths existed in the time of Heartless and Nobodies, I even stated it wasn't so.And as said above in this post the nobodies don't really have Unbirths just something similar I was comparing for a conclusion. This is some good discussion, Expands thought. :)
Then I said a bunch of other interesting stuff about it but I don't really need to add them. lol

Later

[1-up salesman]

Excellent as always, RK. Hope we get an update on it soon :)

(Yeah, please change your sig and avatar. I miss the Marluxia stuff.)

[Audo]

Marluxia is long gone.
So silly, to think you could ever get him back.
Now it's hot Hawaiian guys =3