The Truth About Org Member XIV?

[Audo]

Enough of Ven and Xehanort - let's gossip about Member XIV!

Alright.
While I wouldn't consider this a real theory, if you want you can do so.
And I'm not pretending to be the first to come up with this idea, I'm sure, but so far I haven't seen it being thought of on the boards so I thought I might as well give it a shot.

Things We Know About Org Member XIV.
-She is a girl (WOW)
-She isn't Naminé
-She was brought into the Organization by Xemnas
-Was still called Organization XIII even with her in it.
-She doesn't have a "grave" in The Castle That Never Was
-She doesn't have a chair in "Where Nothing Meets" (Meeting Room)
-For some reason (*cough*Making crap up afterwards, Nomura*cough*) the other Organization Members don't mention her once in KH2.

Alright, so I'm going to lay it out nice and simple. Organization Member XIV is not a Nobody. SAY WHAT? I know. Such mind numbing information, eh?

Well, let's dive into what little proof we do have.

Seeing as how this is a character that will have had no mention, no reference, or no serious role (as far as we know) so far in the Kingdom Heart series that pretty much means that the only real proof we will get regarding XIV is in 358/2 Days. It doesn't leave us much wiggle-room in terms of theories, but we'll do our best right?

Alright, I'm going to go through each of the points above just to refresh everyone's memories and also to add in what this could mean if XIV was in fact not a Nobody.

-She is a Girl-
This much has been confirmed by Nomura. This doesn't necessarily prove why she isn't a Nobody. While, it may be worth noting that in KH, girls seem to have weaker hearts in comparison to men (I'm referring to how there are 2 Girl Nobodies and 12 Male Nobodies), and while I would never even consider this to be legitimate proof, perhaps we should take that into account on why she may not be a Nobody.

-She Isn't Naminé-
This much is obvious. Based on the time-line of the game (End of KH1, through CoM, before KH2), it is relatively impossible for the XIVth member to be Naminé unless she joined and was kicked out during the small time of the end of KH1 and the beginning of CoM. None of this matters though as it has been confirmed by Nomura that she isn't Naminé:

Originally Posted by Nomura, Famitsu

I should bring it up now, that the XIV member is not Naminé

I just wanted to make that as clear as possible, lol, moving on.

-She Was Brought in By Xemnas-
Alright, we know good ol' XIVth was brought in by Xemnas as he was seen explaining to the rest of the Organization that she is now a part of the group. Also (and this is more in the terms of speculation), I believe the Organization stopped looking for additional Nobodies to be members after Roxas joined. Whether there was simply a "dry-spell" of fresh Nobodies or if they were just content with the amount of members that they had, I believe that they stopped looking for new members. There isn't much proof to base this on other than that no additional members had joined during the course of KH2. This is most likely why they settled on the finite name of Organization XIII.
Alright, why I think it is important that Xemnas was the one who brought her in:
-If he knew her (yes all you crazy Aqua theorists) then he would let her in.
-If she wasn't a Nobody but he knew her and for one reason or another, needed to be in the Organization, no one would question Xemnas on her becoming a member, giving her the Superior's protection.

More on that a bit later though.

-Was Still Called Organization XIII-
There isn't much i can add on this subject, based on my ideas from above on why it would stay Org XIII. In terms of her being complete it could mean that they didn't change it to XIV because she wasn't a Nobody (though that raises the question that the others would know). Here is my other possible scenario:
-You need to be a member for a certain period of time before the Organization number changes.
-I know, you're a little shocked, going "huh?" lol (probably not but whatever).
-In Chain of Memories, none of the members call it 'Organization XIII' they simply call it the Organization. Maybe you need to be a member for a certain time before they officially accept you as a permanent member? This would explain why the CoM Members aren't set on a number because either they aren't sure if Roxas will last, or since they are away from the main HQ they don't know who has joined. So they simply refer to it as the Organization.
-Here is a little Nomura quote about 358/2 Days that might help stress my point a bit.

Originally Posted by Nomura, Famitsu

Roxas entering the Organization was not understood yet, but will be explained

-He says that Roxas entering the Organization isn't understood yet, which implies that there was more to it than what we know from KH2 and KH2:FM+. It's a bit of a stretch, but it's a work in progress in terms of an idea.

-She's "Grave-less"-
Besides this pointing out how Nomura has a tendency to make things up as he goes, this could also help in terms of the 'not a Nobody' idea. If she wasn't a real Nobody would she have her own designated room of the castle? While it again implies that the other Member would have known it could also mean that Xemnas knew she wasn't a Nobody and as such didn't make her a room for he knew that she had a specific purpose. Perhaps he was just lazy. Or, in regards to my comment above, maybe she had yet to become a 'permanent member' of the Organization and therefore didn't have a room yet? Either way, she would still be under Xemnas' protection, assuming he would have known that she wasn't a Nobody and that they were friends and all.

-She Doesn't Have a Chair-
I don't know if everyone caught this one, and there is a chance I miss interpretated the translation but have a look:

Originally Posted by Nomura, Famitsu

However it will be explained as to why there's no pillar for this character

I took the translation to mean she didn't have a Pillar-Chair in the meeting room, but he could also be referring to the 'graves'. Your thoughts? (Reasons for why this may be are similar to above).

-The Other Members Don't Mention Her-
This one is one of the most obvious of the bunch that shows Nomura's making it up along the way, but for arguments sake let's say he didn't. Why wouldn't the Org. Members have mentioned her? Sure, they didn't mention any of the CoM members, and they were busy with other things, but seeing as how XIVth was in the Organization and now isn't for whatever reasons (most likely due to traitorism on someone's part. I mean, she allegedly was the reason why Roxas quit the Org, sound pretty traitor like)., you would have though that they would be talking about her all the time. Another instance of a traitor. So, why don't they mention her? It seems it would have easily been in the same breath as Roxas in terms of leaving the Org. Hmmm...

Now, I'm not even attempting to pass this off as a theory based on a majority of it is speculation/thoughts based on what little evidence we do have. But i would love to hear your guy's thoughts on the whole situation. =]

[KingDoom]

well, at least its not about Sora-Ven-Roxas and Terra-Xehanort......

but i don't feel like reading that,,,, to much for me...

[Audo]

Originally Posted by KingDoom92

well, at least its not about Sora-Ven-Roxas and Terra-Xehanort......

but i don't feel like reading that,,,, to much for me...

Lazy.
This world is putting itself into quite the situation, it's disgusting.

[rexenXIII]

very well thought out. great job!

[ShadowKeyMaster]

altho its tru u dnt rly hav n e theories on this page, it is aparent that u did ur homework well

good job on the info

[MF29]

It doesn't make any sense at all, but I think that the Dark Soldier from BBS Is a women and is the 14th member. ( Yeah, sure buddy, whatever you say)

Wait, maybe the 14th member of the organization is Aqua's nobody, (doesn't make any sense)

Oh, It's Selphie!

Selphie is the 14th member!

[gotegenks]

she's a nobody.

organization xiii's whole purpose is to become whole (well that's what they thought) but nomura's not gonna change the identity of the organization like that that, it wouldn't be right in a way.

And Xemnas doesn't "care" about people, if he knew her, and she was a nobody, then yea, he would let her in, but if he knew her and she wasn't, he wouldn't let her in!

Why? because she has a heart.

He wouldn't be able to work with someone with a heart, emotions would get in the way, someone in "nothingness" isn't going to become an ally with someone in the light, or dark.

A theme repeated time and time again during KH2 is that nothingness is an enemy to both light and dark.

and even if she wasn't a nobody, then they wouldn't exclude her from basic rights as a chair and a grave. She would STILL be a member, nevertheless.

I couldn't explain to you why she doesn't have a chair, but i think the reason she doesn't have a grave is because she did some extremely traitorous thing, maybe thats the reason she doesn't have a chair either and they just had to get some construction done for that, i don't know

but i do appreciate you stating the facts and summarizing it all up, you do have your facts straight as shadowkeymaster said, but i don't think you've come to the right conclusion.

[Xayn]

-In Chain of Memories, none of the members call it 'Organization XIII' they simply call it the Organization.

I think Nomura didn't have a name for the organization yet, or he wanted to keep them shrouded in a little bit of mystery as to who they really were.

And in ReCom Vexen says "You're only number 11 in the Organization! I, number 4, refuse to take--"
Proof:

YouTube - KH - Re:CoM Castle Oblivion Floor Ten (English Subs)

So they did have the number system. I don't think that how long you have been in the organization has anything to do with it. Roxas wasn't in it very long before we knew it was called Org. XIII. And before, in CoM, why didn't they just call it 'Org. XI' or 'Org. XII'? Or 'Organization any number' for that matter? They would have if they were naming it

I'm getting a little off topic so I digress~

As for the fourteenth member, she kinda has tan skin. Or is it just the picture? She might be an offspring of Xemnas, haha. I kid.

But if she were Namine she could have erased everyone's memory of her when she left, which is why no one speaks of her in KHII. Buuuut, I highly doubt it's Namine. =P

I think that the Dark Soldier from BBS Is a women and is the 14th member.

I always thought that too but people are always like 'nuuuu you is wrong!!!11one'. There's probably a reason~ hm.

Selphie is the 14th member!

I agree. =D

I think that the Dark Soldier from BBS Is a women and is the 14th member.

I always thought that too but people are always like 'nuuuu you is wrong!!!11one'. There's probably a reason~ hm.

Selphie is the 14th member!

I agree. =D

[gotegenks]

Originally Posted by Xayn

And in ReCom Vexen says "You're only number 11 in the Organization! I, number 4, refuse to take--"
Proof:

YouTube - KH - Re:CoM Castle Oblivion Floor Ten (English Subs)

well, theres a reason that it's RE : com but i bet its the same in the gba...

[Audo]

Originally Posted by gotegenks

she's a nobody.

organization xiii's whole purpose is to become whole (well that's what they thought) but nomura's not gonna change the identity of the organization like that that, it wouldn't be right in a way.

And Xemnas doesn't "care" about people, if he knew her, and she was a nobody, then yea, he would let her in, but if he knew her and she wasn't, he wouldn't let her in!

Why? because she has a heart.

He wouldn't be able to work with someone with a heart, emotions would get in the way, someone in "nothingness" isn't going to become an ally with someone in the light, or dark.

A theme repeated time and time again during KH2 is that nothingness is an enemy to both light and dark.

and even if she wasn't a nobody, then they wouldn't exclude her from basic rights as a chair and a grave. She would STILL be a member, nevertheless.

I couldn't explain to you why she doesn't have a chair, but i think the reason she doesn't have a grave is because she did some extremely traitorous thing, maybe thats the reason she doesn't have a chair either and they just had to get some construction done for that, i don't know

but i do appreciate you stating the facts and summarizing it all up, you do have your facts straight as shadowkeymaster said, but i don't think you've come to the right conclusion.

I don't think you understood what I was trying to imply...
If anything I was musing with the idea that the XIVth member could be Aqua (kind of) and as we know Xemnas considered her his friend. I was implying that if the XIVth member and Xemnas had some sort of plan going on on their own (which, may i remind you that Xemnas had ulterior motives that he didn't tell the other Org. Members about?).
I never said he would change the complete identity of the Organization. I was saying that, as we have seen so far, not everything the members do is for the same goal. Why else would Marluxia want to overthrow it and rule it? That seems against the goal of the Organization to become whole if he is willing to kill the other members to become the leader.
There's isnt proof Xemnas wouldn't let in someone if it was good for him. You just don't have proof of that. Xemnas makes it clear that he keeps things from the other members, why does this have to be so different?

Originally Posted by Xayn

I think Nomura didn't have a name for the organization yet, or he wanted to keep them shrouded in a little bit of mystery as to who they really were.

And in ReCom Vexen says "You're only number 11 in the Organization! I, number 4, refuse to take--"
Proof:

YouTube - KH - Re:CoM Castle Oblivion Floor Ten (English Subs)

So they did have the number system. I don't think that how long you have been in the organization has anything to do with it. Roxas wasn't in it very long before we knew it was called Org. XIII. And before, in CoM, why didn't they just call it 'Org. XI' or 'Org. XII'? Or 'Organization any number' for that matter? They would have if they were naming it

I'm getting a little off topic so I digress~

As for the fourteenth member, she kinda has tan skin. Or is it just the picture? She might be an offspring of Xemnas, haha. I kid.

But if she were Namine she could have erased everyone's memory of her when she left, which is why no one speaks of her in KHII. Buuuut, I highly doubt it's Namine. =P



I always thought that too but people are always like 'nuuuu you is wrong!!!11one'. There's probably a reason~ hm.



I agree. =D



I always thought that too but people are always like 'nuuuu you is wrong!!!11one'. There's probably a reason~ hm.



I agree. =D

I never said they didn't have a number system... that's not what i was getting at at all, lol.

[Zero Inferno]

You need all this crap to come to the highly unlikely if not impossible outcome that Number XIV is not a Nobody? The whole point of Organization XIII is that it is made of Nobodies! That is the first and only thing I really need to say to prove you wrong!

[Audo]

Originally Posted by Kurix

You need all this crap to come to the highly unlikely if not impossible outcome that Number XIV is not a Nobody? The whole point of Organization XIII is that it is made of Nobodies! That is the first and only thing I really need to say to prove you wrong!

LOL. And why can't there be an exception?
You're right the whole point of the Org is that it is made up of Nobodies, i was musing with the idea that XIVth wasn't a Nobody in order to explain the anomolies that we are presented with, such as "why wasn't it called Organization XIV?", "why didn't she have a chair or 'grave'?", etc.
If you can come up with an interesting reason to answer all of those then please, be my guest. But I wouldn't rule out that she isn't a Nobody, as we learned in KH, the rules are filled with exceptions.

[Darkwielder45]

first of all...i have to say you really did an incredible job on your facts...i think she must not be a nobody like you say she is because of all the facts you stated. I don't remember reading any facts about her being the reason for Roxas leaving but clearly you have all your sources together so im going to take your word, and to be honest, i think thats true as well because Roxas, as we all are aware of sets out to find Sora, and i think member XIV has something to do with that because Axel clearly as much as he cared for Roxas even though he was a nobody didn't want him to leave the organization. So think there is a huge part member XIV played.

RIKU-KEYBLADE, i must be honest with you though, i have to honestly disagree with you on member XIV being the dark soldier because why would she at one point fight for a psycho-white bearded old man like M.X. and seek out Kingdom Hearts and then turnaround years later hang up that helmet of hers and say to herself "well let me go and help Roxas out, tell him about Sora and give him some insight about the organizations true intentions and help him quit while he still has time" , it just doesn't add up in my head lol...im jus being honest with you like i said. So i just wanted to put that put there...but again good job on all the facts and finally puttin up a thread that has nothing to do with BBS and all the other characters....this was actually something interesting

[Audo]

Originally Posted by Darkwielder45

first of all...i have to say you really did an incredible job on your facts...i think she must not be a nobody like you say she is because of all the facts you stated. I don't remember reading any facts about her being the reason for Roxas leaving but clearly you have all your sources together so im going to take your word, and to be honest, i think thats true as well because Roxas, as we all are aware of sets out to find Sora, and i think member XIV has something to do with that because Axel clearly as much as he cared for Roxas even though he was a nobody didn't want him to leave the organization. So think there is a huge part member XIV played.

RIKU-KEYBLADE, i must be honest with you though, i have to honestly disagree with you on member XIV being the dark soldier because why would she at one point fight for a psycho-white bearded old man like M.X. and seek out Kingdom Hearts and then turnaround years later hang up that helmet of hers and say to herself "well let me go and help Roxas out, tell him about Sora and give him some insight about the organizations true intentions and help him quit while he still has time" , it just doesn't add up in my head lol...im jus being honest with you like i said. So i just wanted to put that put there...but again good job on all the facts and finally puttin up a thread that has nothing to do with BBS and all the other characters....this was actually something interesting

Lol well thanks for agree with me, as for the second part
Uh... i wasn't the one who said the XIVth member was the Dark Soldier, lol, that was MF29.
In fact throughout the whole "theory" i was doing my best not to mention BbS at all. Lol.

[Darkwielder45]

lol sorry for assuming your said the D.S. thing lol trying to stay awake to see what all these people can possibly say to you to argue against you, i mean its crystal clear all true facts and everything that you mentioned but yeah i mean i gotta say great job on not being like everyone else the past 2 months and puttin up a thread of theories that have been talked about constantly...