Ven's heart and Sora's heart.

[Karate]

This is technically a theory, but not really. I came up with this the other day while I was smoking. It COULD explain why Roxas look like Ven. This is completely unfounded, and based on absolutely nothing; yes, PMF's using a variable.

Sure, we could all say that Ven's heart was in Sora when he lost his heart. No, I'm not using spoilers because if you haven't played a 6 year old game yet, you deserve to be spoiled.

But that would leave the mystery of how the heart got into Roxas, when 1 of 3 things would happen:

Had he have no darkness in his heart, it would have remained in the world of light and in no way go inside Roxas.

Had he darkness darkness in his heart, it would have created a heartless; again, not able to be in Roxas.

It would have returned to Kingdom Hearts.

In any event, it would have no chance of going to Roxas.

And yes, we all know Ven was all "Erase me dude becoz I'm so emo bff."

And I'm just saying that once something is erased, it's gone. If Ven was erased, he's gone. I personally believe Ven is gone.

I'm not going to drag this out longer than I should for a thought that's not even a real theory.

I think Terra engraved Ven's heart in Sora, or at least a portion of Ven's heart. In the very least, knowing that Sora was going to get A Keyblade, decided to give Ven a chance to help out the future generation...or something. Look, the details are fuzzy because my memory's hazy on the subject.

Anyway, it explains why Roxas looks like Ven
Sora Dual-wielding
Roxas allegedly having a heart
And something else, I forgot.

Anyway....whatever [goes to fondle self and molest VAT's corpse]

[KCDjedi]

Originally Posted by PostMentalFerocity

[color=green]
1)And I'm just saying that once something is erased, it's gone. If Ven was erased, he's gone. I personally believe Ven is gone.


2)I think Terra engraved Ven's heart in Sora, or at least a portion of Ven's heart.

3)Anyway, it explains why Roxas looks like Ven
4)Sora Dual-wielding
5)Roxas allegedly having a heart
6)And something else, I forgot.

New avatar I see.... I liked the other one more to be honest.


1) So do I, it would be too bizarre to have both Ven and Roxas alive at the same time.

2) I like the "engraved" idea."Chasers", perhaps?

3) More or less...

4) I suppose so, though I’d prefer it being an ability he learned.

5) Haven’t you of all people been on the other side of that argument before? Roxas is a Nobody, right?

6) Man, you must have been smoking something awful for you to make a thread that is somewhat incoherent and rather unlike the PMF I thought you were.

[Karate]

Originally Posted by KCDjedi

New avatar I see.... I liked the other one more to be honest.

Do you not understand?

1) So do I, it would be too bizarre to have both Ven and Roxas alive at the same time.

Not really. The heart is the proof of life. If Ven's heart still exists, he's still alive.

2) I like the "engraved" idea."Chasers", perhaps?

I think that might have been where I was going. I don't know.

3) More or less...

To rid myself of the "less" part, I could try to explain.

4) I suppose so, though I’d prefer it being an ability he learned.

I as well, then there wouldn't be the need to explain the retconning.

5) Haven’t you of all people been on the other side of that argument before? Roxas is a Nobody, right?

Yeah, but it's implied that roxas foes. I'm on the side that he doesn't have a heart. Though in here, I did use the word "alleged"

6) Man, you must have been smoking something awful for you to make a thread that is somewhat incoherent and rather unlike the PMF I thought you were.

Lucky I wasn't drinking. It wouldn't be coherent at all. XD

[Grace Assassin]

Originally Posted by PostMentalFerocity

Not really. The heart is the proof of life. If Ven's heart still exists, he's still alive.

The heart is proof of life but that doesn't mean it's an actual life. If someone loses their heart, they're still alive? No.

Hypothetically, if a soul was proof of life, and someone's soul was wandering around, does that mean that they're alive? Nope.

A heart is proof of life, as the main component of it.

Now as for this theory, er, well, I have no clue. Too vague for me to say anything.

[Karate]

Originally Posted by Grace Assassin

The heart is proof of life but that doesn't mean it's an actual life. If someone loses their heart, they're still alive? No.

Yes they are because losing your heart =/= death. You're missing the main part. The heart is the proof of life. Got heart? Yes. Then you have your proof of life.

Hypothetically, if a soul was proof of life, and someone's soul was wandering around, does that mean that they're alive? Nope.

The soul is life itself. In the hypothetic impossible event that the soul was walking around that WOULD mean they're dead, because if the soul is removed from the body, it, along with the heart and body, die.

A heart is proof of life, as the main component of it.

That would be the soul my good sir.

[Grace Assassin]

Originally Posted by PostMentalFerocity

Yes they are because losing your heart =/= death. You're missing the main part. The heart is the proof of life. Got heart? Yes. Then you have your proof of life.

Exactly. Got heart? Life. Don't got heart? No Life. The heart can be somewhere else.

Originally Posted by PostMentalFerocity

The soul is life itself. In the hypothetic impossible event that the soul was walking around that WOULD mean they're dead, because if the soul is removed from the body, it, along with the heart and body, die.

Which is what I was saying.

Originally Posted by PostMentalFerocity

That would be the soul my good sir.

In the religious sense.

[Karate]

Originally Posted by Grace Assassin

Exactly. Got heart? Life. Don't got heart? No Life. The heart can be somewhere else.

But if your heart is still in existence, then you're alive. You mistake what I say. Just because you don't have your heart in you doesn't mean you're dead, or was Kairi not enough proof for you?

Which is what I was saying.

You're trying to go back on what you said. You said hypotheitically about the soul. The soul is confirmed to do that. The heart, apparently doesn't kill you if you lose it. Or, again, was KH1 not enough proof for you?

In the religious sense.

No, in the Kingdom Hearts sense.

The heart is the proof that you're alive. Just because it's not in your body doesn't mean you're dead.
The soul, however IS life, and once it's removed, it's dead.

[Grace Assassin]

Originally Posted by PostMentalFerocity

But if your heart is still in existence, then you're alive. You mistake what I say. Just because you don't have your heart in you doesn't mean you're dead, or was Kairi not enough proof for you?

You mistake what I say, oddly enough. Kairi was a lifeless puppet, as Riku said. You're thinking to literally in the sense of death. They just don't have life. And as for those besides the princesses, they are Nobodies, non-existant, not alive.

Originally Posted by PostMentalFerocity

You're trying to go back on what you said. You said hypotheitically about the soul. The soul is confirmed to do that. The heart, apparently doesn't kill you if you lose it. Or, again, was KH1 not enough proof for you?

Prove what, how? And how is the soul confirmed to do that in KH? And how am I going back on what I said? You sure you were smoking something legal?

Originally Posted by PostMentalFerocity

No, in the Kingdom Hearts sense.

No. Ironic. You're going back on what YOU said. What Nomura said. The HEART is proof of life, not the soul. The heart is the center of the KH cosmology. That is not to say that the soul is not necessary for life, but the heart is the main component.

Originally Posted by PostMentalFerocity

The heart is the proof that you're alive. Just because it's not in your body doesn't mean you're dead.
The soul, however IS life, and once it's removed, it's dead.

The soul is a part of what makes you alive. If it WAS life, and it was REMOVED, you wouldn't be dead, you would just lack a heart and body, in your usage of the word.

[Karate]

Originally Posted by Grace Assassin

You mistake what I say, oddly enough. Kairi was a lifeless puppet, as Riku said. You're thinking to literally in the sense of death. They just don't have life. And as for those besides the princesses, they are Nobodies, non-existant, not alive.

Lifeless in the sense that she couldn't move. Not lifeless in the sense she's dead; because her soul is still in her body. Nobodies still have their soul, which make them alive; otherwise, they wouldn't move or talk; unless they were zombies. [They're not]

Even still non-existant=/=dead.

Prove what, how? And how is the soul confirmed to do that in KH? And how am I going back on what I said? You sure you were smoking something legal?

Once the soul leaves the body, life gives way to death.
life=soul
Ansem Report

I might have been drinking. I'm not 100% sure right now.

No. Ironic. You're going back on what YOU said. What Nomura said. The HEART is proof of life, not the soul. The heart is the center of the KH cosmology. That is not to say that the soul is not necessary for life, but the heart is the main component.

I said that. The heart is proof, but the soul IS life. If the heart is gone, you're not dead, just without an identity.

The soul is a part of what makes you alive. If it WAS life, and it was REMOVED, you wouldn't be dead, you would just lack a heart and body, in your usage of the word.

If your soul is still in your body, you're still alive.
body-heart=/=dead.

Again, heart is the PROOF that you're alive. Not life itself.

And yes it would. If your soul is gone, how can you be alive if soul =life?

[Grace Assassin]

Originally Posted by PostMentalFerocity

Lifeless in the sense that she couldn't move. Not lifeless in the sense she's dead; because her soul is still in her body. Nobodies still have their soul, which make them alive; otherwise, they wouldn't move or talk; unless they were zombies. [They're not]

Even still non-existant=/=dead.

This is where you're misunderstanding. I never said anything about being dead. Go back to one of my posts and you'll see that I'm not using the word "dead." Just because something is not alive, does not mean it's dead. Like a bed. This works similarly in a figurative sense. That's what I was talking about when I said you're taking "death" too literally. Nobodies are not alive. Last time I checked, something needs to exist to have life.

You might argue about them existing on the basis that they're tangible and thus, despite what the game says, they exist in the sense that they're alive. But it deals in abstracts. Just like how Kairi is lifeless, Nobodies do not exist. Don't take it so literally.

Originally Posted by PostMentalFerocity

[color=green]
Once the soul leaves the body, life gives way to death.
life=soul
Ansem Report

I might have been drinking. I'm not 100% sure right now.

That is not saying a soul=life in the slightest. It is saying that the soul gives life, that it maintains it.

Originally Posted by PostMentalFerocity

[color=green]
I said that. The heart is proof, but the soul IS life. If the heart is gone, you're not dead, just without an identity.

Again we seem to be having trouble with where the soul is established as life.

If the heart is a proof of life then that would mean, according to you, it is proof of a soul. Nobodies have souls but no hearts. Heartless are made from hearts but have no souls. That makes no sense.

Originally Posted by PostMentalFerocity

[color=green]
If your soul is still in your body, you're still alive.
body-heart=/=dead.

Again, heart is the PROOF that you're alive. Not life itself.

And yes it would. If your soul is gone, how can you be alive if soul =life?

Soul=/=life.

[Karate]

Originally Posted by Grace Assassin

This is where you're misunderstanding. I never said anything about being dead. Go back to one of my posts and you'll see that I'm not using the word "dead." Just because something is not alive, does not mean it's dead. Like a bed. This works similarly in a figurative sense. That's what I was talking about when I said you're taking "death" too literally. Nobodies are not alive. Last time I checked, something needs to exist to have life.

Death is the same everywhere though. Death is death, no matter where.

You might argue about them existing on the basis that they're tangible and thus, despite what the game says, they exist in the sense that they're alive. But it deals in abstracts. Just like how Kairi is lifeless, Nobodies do not exist. Don't take it so literally.

Don't take it so lightly. No one is exempt from death, not even a nobody.

We have:
Living
Dead
Inanimate
[Non-Existant.*]

Non-existant in the game is lacking a heart, considering that your heart is your identity. NObody is really just a person lacking an identity.

That is not saying a soul=life in the slightest. It is saying that the soul gives life, that it maintains it.

Again we seem to be having trouble with where the soul is established as life.

Through logic and common sense. Meet me on the other side.

If the heart is a proof of life then that would mean, according to you, it is proof of a soul. Nobodies have souls but no hearts. Heartless are made from hearts but have no souls. That makes no sense.

In Kingdom Hearts ducks can use magic and little boys can fly. Sense doesn't ALWAYS apply. You're trying to argue with magic. DISNEY magic at that.

No, I'm saying that the heart, IF in existence [this includes a heartless] is proof that someone is alive.
With the soul being life, one can say, as long as you have a soul, you're alive. Without the soul you're dead. A soul itself doesn't go around. If the soul is gone, the heart and the body are gone too.

Soul=/=life.

Soul = life.

Just because it isn't said out directly, doesn't make it not true. Without the soul, there is no life.

[DarkSoldier85]

I don't really agree with this. My theory is that the heart transfers from the body to the Heartless and takes some time (which can be seen through Sora's memories of that time when he said he was starting to forget some things). However, he became a human again before the heart could transfer completely. This would mean that Roxas would have a heart and he wouldn't remember anything about his past life.

As for the Ven part, I have no idea why he looks like Roxas.

[Karate]

Originally Posted by DarkSoldier85

I don't really agree with this. My theory is that the heart transfers from the body to the Heartless and takes some time (which can be seen through Sora's memories of that time when he said he was starting to forget some things). However, he became a human again before the heart could transfer completely. This would mean that Roxas would have a heart and he wouldn't remember anything about his past life.

Only problem with that is that Ven's heart would have created a heartless once it left Sora's body. Ven's heart has nothing to do with Sora's heartless. Also Sora's heart used Kairi's heart as an intermediary to regain human form. The only reason that Roxas has no memories of his past life is because Sora spent a short time as a heartless. That's confirmed.

As for the Ven part, I have no idea why he looks like Roxas.

This theory explains it...vaguely.

[Renegade Ben]

this is a fascinating discussion

[cananthegreat]

I think wat u said about terra engraving venns heart into soras is spot on my man